Lifting for grappling or not?

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by omgitsrick, Apr 9, 2008.

  1. omgitsrick

    omgitsrick Green Belt

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    Heres the story, my lil bro (14 yr old) has seen me train and says he wants to start training too, but since he's on his 9th grade football team he insists on lifting weights along with training. I've told him that I just do calisthenics and I'm fine, but he's insisting. After thinking about it i researched it a bit and was surprised to find that lifting weights can benefit you alot if you do it properly. I've had it drilled into me that weights make you too "bulky" and "slow" in boxing from a younger age, so Im taking this in with some skepticism. Now i turn to you guys for answers, if lifting ISNT bad for grapplers and striking (boxing and wrestling, but I started BJJ recently) then I might lift along with my brother.



    PS. Also could he be too young for lifting, hes pretty tall for his age (6ft even) but still skinny, he hasnt filled out yet at all. And by skinny i mean like 130lbs anorexic skinny. I on the otherhand HAVE filled out and am sitting at 6'2, 170lbs.
     
  2. Prokofievian

    Prokofievian Silver Belt Platinum Member

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    Arnold Schwarzenegger started lifting at about your brother's age.

    Calisthenics is good up to a point, but if you want to become stronger, you have to lift with the goal to become stronger. Doing more and more reps is going to do nothing for you in the way of developing power.

    Whatever lifting you do, you have to do it to accomplish a specific goal. If muscular endurance is your goal, then HIIT or Crossfit training is what you need to do. If you want to become more powerful and explosive, you need to do heavyweights, explosive movements, and compound movements(deadlifts, squats, benchpress, kettle-bell swings, clean and jerk, snatches etc).
     
  3. omgitsrick

    omgitsrick Green Belt

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    So if you lift explosively and heavy you wont become slower?
     
  4. Rowan11088

    Rowan11088 Purple Belt

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    If you lifted like a bodybuilder, you might become bulky and slow. But if you do power lifts and endurance lifts (~5 reps, ~15-20 reps respectively), those can benefit your grappling for sure. As long as you continue to train for speed at the same time, you won't slow down. In fact, the type of training you would need to do to remain quick and have good cardio will limit your ability to get bulky all by itself.
     
  5. AnOddParadigm

    AnOddParadigm Blue Belt

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    People associate weightlifting with bodybuilding these days, people don't get that bodybuilding has nothing to do with strength or power training. Olympic weightlifters are some of the most powerful, fast and flexible athletes in the world.

    Any routine should be based on strength exercises like deadlifts, squats, overhead press and power (explosive) movements like cleans and snatches. Some calisthenics like pullups and dips are also awesome.

    The routine I suggest for building a strength foundation (and also is used by crossfit to build a strength base) is pretty damn simple
    (http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=20170)

    Workout A
    3x5 Squat
    3x5 Bench Press
    1x5 Deadlift

    Workout B
    3x5 Squat
    3x5 Press
    5x3 Power cleans

    You train on 3 nonconsecutive days per week.

    So week 1 might look like:
    Monday - Workout A
    Wednesday - Workout B
    Friday - Workout A

    Week 2:
    Monday - Workout B
    Wednesday - Workout A
    Friday - Workout B
     
  6. omgitsrick

    omgitsrick Green Belt

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    I was under the impression bodybuilders did the same type of lifts as powerlifters? I saw some videos of ronnie coleman squatting and benching and all these exercises that were mentioned
     
  7. Prokofievian

    Prokofievian Silver Belt Platinum Member

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    No you wont. There are so many important points about proper lifting that you should really get a book on it to really understand the whole process. A good book for this is Pavel Tsatsouline's "Power to the People." It's pretty hokey stuff in terms of the writing, but the information is good.

    Lifting which activates multiple joints, lifting with correct posture, not often lifting to failure, doing explosive exercises, keeping your reps low, your weight high, and hyperirradiation: these are all important for developing power. Even eating 180 grams of protein per day, I didn't lose any flexability, and I was stronger than I've ever been in my entire life.
     
  8. Bullitt68

    Bullitt68 Senior Moderator Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Post this in the Strength and Power section. You'll get some insults, but mixed in with the caustic responses will surely be some very enlightening responses with some great info.

    And regardless of whether or not you choose to post this there, definitely read through the Stickies they have there. Very informative.
     
  9. Prokofievian

    Prokofievian Silver Belt Platinum Member

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    You dont see powerlifters doing GVT though.

    Squats, benches, and deadlifts are the most important exercises you can do.
     
  10. omgitsrick

    omgitsrick Green Belt

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    I posted this in stand up also, but not in strength and power. The reason being is they would obviously say lifting is good and there would be little disagreement over it, over here in grappling most people seem to like lifting too. Whereas in stand up its mixed half and half, im assuming from all the boxers
     
  11. SteveX

    SteveX Nobody F*cks Wit Da Jesus

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    Lifting will not harm his growth. He has a better chance of damaging his growth plates on the football field than he does in the weight room.

    Lifting does not make you slow or inflexible, that is an old myth that needs to be put to rest.

    Calisthenics are fine, but once you can do 10 it is more about endurance than strength.

    Head over to the Stength and Power section and check out the FAQ and the training logs there (in that order). They should answer all your questions.
     
  12. Fozzy1

    Fozzy1 Guest

    i found after starting WS4SB1 that my strength for grappling went up alot. It's all about focusing on what you need to do.

    I believe Finnegan has a thread on 'weight lifting for MMA' in S&P, very helpful. Theres lots of shit I take from everywhere that help with grappling. Zercher shoots from Brad Morris lately have been very good.

    Your not too young.

    ~Foz
     
  13. Tony Manifold

    Tony Manifold Brown Belt

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    At 14 your brother is fine to start lifting. The key to lifting for fighting is explosive power as has already been mentioned. Personally, I am big into Olympic style lifting these days and I haven't been this explosive since I was in high school. If you want to try O lifts, go to www.danjohn.org and download his ebook and watch some videos. There are also good videos on the crossfit site which I think as already been posted.

    Also this guy writes a column for MMAweekly which has some great stuff people can to from a home gym.
    http://www.workingclassfitness.com/


    My personal workout consist of the following exercisesL
    Power Snatch (best exercise name ever)
    Power Clean and Jerk
    One handed rows
    Pullups
    pushups
    Swing snatch performed with a dumbell
    Various ab workouts
    This one I don't have a name for but I grab a plate and work it in a circle from the front of my body and around my head. The Militech boys all do it and it is a great tap workout.

    I don't do them all at once, I mix them up and sometime throw in a variation or just a different related exercise to keep it from getting stale.
     
  14. JerseyTrash

    JerseyTrash Silver Belt

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    Do those workouts in the back of Gracie magazine. Those Men's Fitness workouts are good too.
     
  15. andrewbc

    andrewbc Purple Belt

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    in grappling and most combat sports, technique is first and foremost. when two people grapple or fight who are on similar levels when it comes to technique, the person who is stronger and better conditioned will usually prevail. left weights to get strong and supplement your training with conditioning
     
  16. Hammer Time

    Hammer Time Brown Belt

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    lifitng has helped my game strength wise and with my explosiveness. also makes u more dense physically if that makes sense
     
  17. TheHighlander

    TheHighlander Green Belt

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    I've trained both with lifting and without. If I had the time and recovery capability I'd probably still be lifting. One of my training partners has been pretty heavy into powerlifting (mostly strongman type training) for years but has been focusing a lot on boxing for the last couple of years. He's noticed that certain exercises affect his striking speed (i.e. bench press). One thing that I've noticed is that core lifts (squats/deads) can help your posture strength a lot. Lifting only leads to loss of flexibility if you don't work to maintain your flexibility.
     
  18. WestLynnGangster

    WestLynnGangster Blue Belt

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  19. circuitbreaker

    circuitbreaker White Belt

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    Lifting weights can definitely be beneficial for grappling, in terms of both strength and muscle endurance but you have to make sure not to sacrifice other aspects of your game, like flexibility and dexterity.

    I think BJ Penn said it best. He compared lifting weights and grappling to lifting weights and throwing darts. "One minute you have to be strong, and the next you have to be precise".
     
  20. Pine

    Pine Saggin' pants. Gat in hand.

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    I do Randy's bar workout a few times a week.

    8x bent over rows
    8x upright rows
    8x military presses
    8x good mornings
    8x right leg forward squats
    8x left leg forward squats
    8x squat + behind the head presses
    8x romanian deadlifts

    All that without putting the bar down.
    Three to five sets.
    If you can't get through three to five, remove some weight.

    Enjoyable, quick, effective.
     

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