Let's talk about Corporal Upham from Saving Private Ryan

[Headkicktoleg]

How could anyone argue anything but coward? Lol

 

[ufcfan4]

I think Upham would have been far less detested if Mellish was quickly killed- say shot and then Upham cowered in mortal terror worrying he would be killed too only to be walked past as though he didn't even exist.

But the fact that the Mellish death is one of the most egregiously disturbing death scenes in any given movie a la his being disarmed, slowly stabbed with his own blade while begging for his life and being told to shhhhhh

well Upham not intervening there was of course going to make him one of the more hated characters in modern cinema.

 

[Proud American]

He’s no coward.

he was running through all sorts of direct fire to get people ammunition. that takes balls.

He just didn’t want to kill that SS man. meaning he doesn’t want to kill period. That’s fine.

the SS man doesn’t want to kill. His statements to melish in german show that. He doesn’t kill Upham bc he doesn’t want to kill.

now when opum kills willie. It’s bc willie did not turn himself in. Maybe he didn’t have an opportunity to, but His saved life became forfeit in opums eyes.

 

[minute bull]

I think Upham would have been far less detested if Mellish was quickly killed- say shot and then Upham cowered in mortal terror worrying he would be killed too only to be walked past as though he didn't even exist.

But the fact that the Mellish death is one of the most egregiously disturbing death scenes in any given movie a la his being disarmed, slowly stabbed with his own blade while begging for his life and being told to shhhhhh

well Upham not intervening there was of course going to make him one of the more hated characters in modern cinema.

HOT TAKE: Mellish's death is "seen" from Upham's point of view. Upham's guilt is the German knife, and Mellish's heart his own. It's terrible because that's how Upham feels, his shame.

 

[Proud American]

I think Upham would have been far less detested if Mellish was quickly killed- say shot and then Upham cowered in mortal terror worrying he would be killed too only to be walked past as though he didn't even exist.

But the fact that the Mellish death is one of the most egregiously disturbing death scenes in any given movie a la his being disarmed, slowly stabbed with his own blade while begging for his life and being told to shhhhhh

well Upham not intervening there was of course going to make him one of the more hated characters in modern cinema.

I think we are just supposed to consider it too men locked in mortal combat. The SS soldier and melish. Two men enter, one man leaves.

melish calls out for help to anyone for help. The SS soldier does not.

Melish just got bested by a man with a either the stronger will to survive, or the stronger skills to survive

I don’t even bring upham into the equation

 

[ufcfan4]

HOT TAKE: Mellish's death is "seen" from Upham's point of view. Upham's guilt is the German knife, and Mellish's heart his own.

 

[Omegaboy13]

War makes monsters of us all.

 

[Proud American]

Dude had a chance to put down
a racist like the dog he is & he didn't
take it. Upham was a coward.

How do you know the guy was a racist?

read up and get educated.

https://timeline.com/nazi-prisoners-war-texas-f4a0794458ea

German POWS were aghast at how blacks were treated in America.

here is a good bbc write up on black people in Germany during WW2

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thecon...ppened-to-black-germans-under-the-nazis-53599

There were many black members of the waffen SS, as well as the regular wermacht. I believe most were Muslim black Africans, fighting in North Africa.

I guess you can assume he’s racist, but I don’t think that’s fair

 

[ChrisPan15]

Was Upham a coward? Yes, BUT it's understandable why he was. As a few have stated before me, he was a translator and not a combatant. Being a translator, he wouldn't have been in the firefights on the beaches unlike Capt Miller and his men. From his first introduction we see Upham is not fit for battle. He first takes his typewriter and other unnecessary things and he's shaking the whole time. He has no clue what he is getting into, Capt Miller does but does not care. Upham never truly gets to mentally prepare for going into battle. Obviously you can argue that no soldier truly gets to prepare for battle but at least soldiers get to fall back on months or years of training plus they have a very tight bond with their fellow soldiers. Upham has none of that.

Upham is meant to be the audience surrogate or POV character for us. We see the brutal side of war through Upham's eyes and we literally see his POV in several key scenes like the Radio Station battle and the Battle of Ramelle. From the introduction of his character to the ending scene where he finally kills Steamboat Willie, Upham is always shaking. He's absolutely terrified.

Not only has he never seen combat up close before but his first actual battle is when he's far away. The Radio Station battle is witnessed through a sniper scope. He really isn't in danger, but he hears and sees the action. Then for the first time he sees the brutal death of Wade (he was occupied with the little girl during the sniper scene in Neuville where Carparzo died) and the frustration of Miller's men when they capture Steamboat Willie. Upham is the only guy who could communicate with Steamboat Willie so his first actual bond is with him. They share a smoke and talk about home. So now Upham knows a little bit about the guy so of course he feels it's not right to outright kill him when he has surrendered.

His next battle is the Battle of Ramelle where he can't be at a safe distance. He has arguably the most important job being the runner with extra ammunition. This forces him to run through the battle and see how guys are dying up close. Since he is still in shock and has tons of ammunition on him, he's in no state to fight anyone. Upham only hears the physical fight Mellish is having. He can't bring himself to get involved. He can't directly risk his life.

From watching the clips again, Steamboat Willie rejoins the German Army and is one of the soldiers who fights in the Battle of Ramelle so both him and the soldier who kills Mellish are at the battle. Willie is also the one who shoots Capt. Miller, but Upham wouldn't have known that since he was cowering in a crater on the German side of the bridge. When Upham finally gets out of the crater and tells the soldiers to put their hands up, Steamboat Willie speaks in German that he knows Upham. If Upham doesn't shoot Willie when he does, I bet Willie starts to talk to Upham like they are friends. (he switches to English so this is very likely) Willie would probably even tell his fellow soldiers that Upham was the one who let him go. The American reinforcements haven't gotten to the bridge yet so the Germans all could have gotten away if Upham did nothing. He was outnumbered but still had the illusion of being an American soldier who had no problems killing the enemy.

I think the depiction of Upham was phenomenal and really shows the brutal horrors of WWII. He is terrified the whole time as he doesn't have the physical or mental training to deal with what he might see. I think he finally accepts the nature of war when he sees Steamboat Willie again and that he would try to manipulate him into letting Willie and his allies go. By the end of the movie I don't think he is a coward anymore, but a horrified man who will have to live with PTSD for the rest of his life.

 

[Drain Bamage]

Was Upham a coward? Yes, BUT it's understandable why he was. As a few have stated before me, he was a translator and not a combatant. Being a translator, he wouldn't have been in the firefights on the beaches unlike Capt Miller and his men. From his first introduction we see Upham is not fit for battle. He first takes his typewriter and other unnecessary things and he's shaking the whole time. He has no clue what he is getting into, Capt Miller does but does not care. Upham never truly gets to mentally prepare for going into battle. Obviously you can argue that no soldier truly gets to prepare for battle but at least soldiers get to fall back on months or years of training plus they have a very tight bond with their fellow soldiers. Upham has none of that.

Upham is meant to be the audience surrogate or POV character for us. We see the brutal side of war through Upham's eyes and we literally see his POV in several key scenes like the Radio Station battle and the Battle of Ramelle. From the introduction of his character to the ending scene where he finally kills Steamboat Willie, Upham is always shaking. He's absolutely terrified.

Not only has he never seen combat up close before but his first actual battle is when he's far away. The Radio Station battle is witnessed through a sniper scope. He really isn't in danger, but he hears and sees the action. Then for the first time he sees the brutal death of Wade (he was occupied with the little girl during the sniper scene in Neuville where Carparzo died) and the frustration of Miller's men when they capture Steamboat Willie. Upham is the only guy who could communicate with Steamboat Willie so his first actual bond is with him. They share a smoke and talk about home. So now Upham knows a little bit about the guy so of course he feels it's not right to outright kill him when he has surrendered.

His next battle is the Battle of Ramelle where he can't be at a safe distance. He has arguably the most important job being the runner with extra ammunition. This forces him to run through the battle and see how guys are dying up close. Since he is still in shock and has tons of ammunition on him, he's in no state to fight anyone. Upham only hears the physical fight Mellish is having. He can't bring himself to get involved. He can't directly risk his life.

From watching the clips again, Steamboat Willie rejoins the German Army and is one of the soldiers who fights in the Battle of Ramelle so both him and the soldier who kills Mellish are at the battle. Willie is also the one who shoots Capt. Miller, but Upham wouldn't have known that since he was cowering in a crater on the German side of the bridge. When Upham finally gets out of the crater and tells the soldiers to put their hands up, Steamboat Willie speaks in German that he knows Upham. If Upham doesn't shoot Willie when he does, I bet Willie starts to talk to Upham like they are friends. (he switches to English so this is very likely) Willie would probably even tell his fellow soldiers that Upham was the one who let him go. The American reinforcements haven't gotten to the bridge yet so the Germans all could have gotten away if Upham did nothing. He was outnumbered but still had the illusion of being an American soldier who had no problems killing the enemy.

I think the depiction of Upham was phenomenal and really shows the brutal horrors of WWII. He is terrified the whole time as he doesn't have the physical or mental training to deal with what he might see. I think he finally accepts the nature of war when he sees Steamboat Willie again and that he would try to manipulate him into letting Willie and his allies go. By the end of the movie I don't think he is a coward anymore, but a horrified man who will have to live with PTSD for the rest of his life.

I cant like quotes cuz i got dubs but this is a great post.

 

[Uber_Noober]

He should’ve been shot and dragged behind a tanks naked.

 

[GoodBadHBK]

Pretty sure TS is the one that quit sherdog once someone posted his pic

 

[HereticBD]

I look at him as a symbol of how fragile humanity really is. No, most people are not heroes under immediate life threatening scenarios. They're shaped by them. He survived his trial by fire, and was a far more colder and ruthless individual for it. After seeing and living the horrors of war, he was more inclined to participate in them. Him crying like a newborn baby during the chaos, was essentially his birth into becoming the man who shot an enemy he had sympathy for previously, without hesitation. Born again hard. It just came a little later for him. War is hell, and strips everyone of their humanity.

 

[BEATDOWNS]

Not everyone was made to be a soldier and not like back in those days dudes had a choice.

edit: yes i know it's a movie just sayin

 

[Rhood]

Upham is meant to be the audience surrogate or POV character for us. We see the brutal side of war through Upham's eyes and we literally see his POV in several key scenes like the Radio Station battle and the Battle of Ramelle. From the introduction of his character to the ending scene where he finally kills Steamboat Willie, Upham is always shaking. He's absolutely terrified.

Wow! This is a fresh take.
Now I'm gonna have to watch this movie again.

I finally realized Saving Private Ryan isn't about private Ryan or about Captain Miller and his platoon.
It's about Upham witnessing the horrors of war.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Upham was a coward. He had a job to do, and failed to do so resulting the horrible death of his brother in arms. When I was in the Marine Corps, we had a few guys come into my battalion, and we could tell they had his type of personality. We hazed the ever living shit out of those kids until they went UA (unauthorized absence) and left the unit. One kid was in my platoon. He was straight shitbag coward who joined infantry for no apparent reason. Me and a few others guys would routinely beat him, lock him out of his room, threaten him, steal his gear, break his stuff, et cetera. We just didn't want him on deployment with us, and we made it clear. He wound up going UA one day and went home. He threatened suicide when they caught him and seperated him from the Marine Corps. I don't regret what I did for one second of my life. Someone in my platoon would have fragged his ass the first time we had a firefight.

Upham is a fictional character, but he really pisses me off. I deeply hate everything he stood for in the movie. I understand he was probably a draftee, but as a man he should have bucked up and did his job. Instead he let Nazis kill better men than him while he hid like a total pussy.

 

[greygoose]

didn't realize for the longest time that Upham was Dickie Bennett on Justified...lol

 

[Proud American]

didn't realize for the longest time that Upham was Dickie Bennett on Justified...lol

He plays a great role. That’s a damn fantastic show. The writing is superb

 

[Jack Reacheround]

He was a coward. He went through basic training like everyone else. Nobody wasn’t scared. But everyone else was able to get past that fear and do what needed to be done. And it wasn’t because the army gave them some kind of “fear training” in which they learned psychological strategies to deal with fear. He was a bitch.

 

[Madmick]

You're overthinking it.

Upham represents a simple truth of war: that some men simply wilt under the pressure of combat. Veterans will tell you that you never know who it is going to be, and it will surprise you, but there will always be some who crack and fold.

He is a coward.

The more complicated truth of Saving Private Ryan is that his plea for the German was rooted in a morally virtuous intent however misguided his judgment was, and however tactically flawed. The point was to show that there are different forms of courage, and that someone who is a coward in one arena is sometimes very courageous in another. It also demonstrates why moral virtue isn't favored in war. This is precisely why war erodes our humanity. The greater lesson is a reminder warning of the unavoidable iniquity of war; that we should avoid it however we can. Because once undertaken one has already surrendered his right to choose what kind of man he is.

You are either savage, or you are dead.