Let's talk about Corporal Upham from Saving Private Ryan

[FeloniousMonk]

Dude had a chance to put down
a racist like the dog he is & he didn't
take it. Upham was a coward.

 

[Higus]

Here's a good question:
If they shot Willie when he was blindfolded, would that make Miller and Co. cowards as well?

 

[sub_thug]

Here's a good question:
If they shot Willie when he was blindfolded, would that make Miller and Co. cowards as well?

No. Sometimes, shit needs to be done. Willie ran right back into the Germans, was reequipped, and then immediately returned to the battlefield to kill Americans. It's not always pretty, but sometimes, people just need to die.

 

[sub_thug]

Upham was a total coward to not getting himself involved in the fighting up until the end of the movie, and especially for failing to defend his friend at the cost of his own safety.

 

[DoomPatrol]

You're a coward.

I don't think anyone in my old unit would agree that assessment. I was always willing to take the worst jobs and go on the most dangerous missions while I was in.

It is common in the military. Their was a study done to determine the accuracy of the military. The shooting results when people shoot at targets is radically different from in the field at real people. There really is a only a small percentage of the military population that can shoot someone, especially in the back. The study stated about half the population could be snipers if given enough training but only a small fraction could carry out the task without psych problems. The military's training of shoot at human targets at the range is to try to make the task automatic rather than an ethical conflict.

That study goes back to a military built up from forced conscription. Today's military is a volunteer force and pretty much everyone is willing and capable of killing the enemy.

That's fucked up to do something like to someone. This person is supposed to be your brother so why not try to help and mentor. Guys like you give the military a bad name, you' and you're betallion are the real fucking cowards

It's spelled battalion and I don't really care what you think. If you haven't served in an infantry unit then you have no idea what we go through. Nobody wants a fuckup or coward next to them in a firefight. That shitbag had no place in our unit, and i sure as fuck wasn't going to let him get my friends hurt or killed. It's easy to be high and mighty from the comfort of your couch.

 

[Bloody Pulp]

More like Corporal Cuckham, amirite?

 

[Big L]

I don't think anyone in my old unit would agree that assessment. I was always willing to take the worst jobs and go on the most dangerous missions while I was in.



That study goes back to a military built up from forced conscription. Today's military is a volunteer force and pretty much everyone is willing and capable of killing the enemy.



It's spelled battalion and I don't really care what you think. If you haven't served in an infantry unit then you have no idea what we go through. Nobody wants a fuckup or coward next to them in a firefight. That shitbag had no place in our unit, and i sure as fuck wasn't going to let him get my friends hurt or killed. It's easy to be high and mighty from the comfort of your couch.

Such an important point. A lot of the ground troops in WW2 were drafted and there against their will. That soldier will not have the same battle acumen as someone enlisted of their own accord.

 

[IIIIIIII]

there were lots of soldiers who behaved cowardly. on all sides. no one knows exactly how they are going to react until they-themselves are in a life or death situation.

 

[Prefect]

I would like to know why different countries or people have different resolve. If Russia had just surrendered 20 million probably wouldn't have died. U.S. Military reports talked about the resolve of the Japanese and all fighting to break them would come at high cost. Two Japanese troops on an island held out until 1990 thinking it was a trick and the war wasn't over.

 

[IIIIIIII]

I would like to know why different countries or people have different resolve. If Russia had just surrendered 20 million probably wouldn't have died. U.S. Military reports talked about the resolve of the Japanese and all fighting to break them would come at high cost. Two Japanese troops on an island held out until 1990 thinking it was a trick and the war wasn't over.

you want to know why? because people are different. people have different histories.

 

[Prefect]

you want to know why? because people are different. people have different histories.

Yeah, and the sky is blue because it is blue. Great nothing answer.

 

[IIIIIIII]

Yeah, and the sky is blue because it is blue. Great nothing answer.

my answer was just as vapid and pointless as your question. that was the entire point of my answer. get it?

 

[adambomb]

I don't think anyone in my old unit would agree that assessment. I was always willing to take the worst jobs and go on the most dangerous missions while I was in.



That study goes back to a military built up from forced conscription. Today's military is a volunteer force and pretty much everyone is willing and capable of killing the enemy.



It's spelled battalion and I don't really care what you think. If you haven't served in an infantry unit then you have no idea what we go through. Nobody wants a fuckup or coward next to them in a firefight. That shitbag had no place in our unit, and i sure as fuck wasn't going to let him get my friends hurt or killed. It's easy to be high and mighty from the comfort of your couch.

The point is, you fix the goddam kid instead of trying to get him fucked out of the military. But that takes actual leadership and giving a fuck, which seems to be in short order in today's military.

 

[DoomPatrol]

The point is, you fix the goddam kid instead of trying to get him fucked out of the military. But that takes actual leadership and giving a fuck, which seems to be in short order in today's military.

A real leader knows when to cut a loose end to save the team, but you wouldn't learn that from your chair.

You can't turn a lifetime of someone acting like a piece of shit around in a few months, especially when lives are at stake.

 

[P0NYBOY]

That actor is top shelf actor.

Got you guys all in a tissy.

 

[Big_Chief_Stove]

Upham was a coward. That stabbing scene always stuck with me. His inaction there allowed a friend and fellow soldier to be killed.

 

[adambomb]

A real leader knows when to cut a loose end to save the team, but you wouldn't learn that from your chair.

You can't turn a lifetime of someone acting like a piece of shit around in a few months, especially when lives are at stake.

I deployed with quite a few guys that were garbage coming out of basic. Guys who went on to become good infantryman because we didn't give up on them.

And the guys who were shit, that didn't end up being able to fix, find a reason to chapter then out. Why waste time being dicks to somebody you don't even want around in the first place?

 

[DoomPatrol]

I deployed with quite a few guys that were garbage coming out of basic. Guys who went on to become good infantryman because we didn't give up on them.

And the guys who were shit, that didn't end up being able to fix, find a reason to chapter then out. Why waste time being dicks to somebody you don't even want around in the first place?

There's always guys who just need work and support. There's also guys who just don't need to be there. There's not always time to change someone's life and turn them into Captain America.

 

[biggdogg99]

↑
"Upham was working translating documents. He was not from the combat arms. I wonder if he would have been different if he had been trained with other soldiers. The only training he had for combat was in basic then he moved into the clerical ranks.
Agreed!
His position was no different than putting priests on the battlefield.
How dumb is that?

In the beginning scene there was a bunch of germans on turrets mowing down mobs of soldiers and here you had a bunch of useless priests doing nothing but getting in the way and praying for people.
They were basically cannon fodder, and so was upham.

In a nutshell Upham wasn't a coward, he was merely cannon fodder."

Forgive me for reviving this, but I am new/old and just discovered this thread after watching this movie for about the 50th time last night....

A few quick observations:

Upham was a coward, yes. But he had no business being out in the shit with the Rangers. He was a T-4 corporal who translated maps and documents. Miller only grabbed him because his two interpreters (who were combat-hardened Rangers) were killed storming Omaha and he needed someone who knew both French and German. So Upham just happened to be the right guy at the wrong time; he had basic training like everyone else but had no infantry knowledge or combat experience.

As for the priests on the battlefield? You are quite mistaken as to why they were there and what their function was. Priests and other chaplains were officers with experience as clergy who volunteered for the toughest of combat duty, so they could support infantrymen (and marines) while in the most dire of situations. They were not naive, weak draftees who didn't want to be there. In Band of Brothers, the HBO miniseries also set in WWII Europe, one of the absolutely most badass soldiers in the company being featured was Chaplain (LT) John Maloney, who would routinely go into the middle of battlefields, totally unarmed, to pray with and give last rites for dying soldiers, often in the middle of murderous fire. He received the Distinguished Service Cross for his heroics, second only to the Medal of Honor. There were a few other chaplains who got the Medal of Honor for heroism on duty, usually giving up their lives in the process.

 

[Err]

He was a coward, but he was also a clerk by trade. They should’ve found another ranger or grunt that could speak German instead of pulling a random POG off of the beach head and expecting him to perform as an infantryman. He was a liability the moment they stepped off.

Edit: No disrespect to any current or former military who served in a support or non-combat position.