Lets score a fight. Toney vs McCallum 1.

[XThe GreatestX]

1. I think I am gonna go Toney. They both came out with excellent jabs. Really tough round to score. But I'll go Toney

2. Toney did well this round. I am going to give it to him. Landed very nice power shots towards the end.

3. Toney again but this was also close. He is just doing a little more each of these rounds imo.

4. McCallum. Seemed to take control a bit this round. His jab is like a piston here.

5. McCallum. Again controlled the round with the jab.

6. Swing round here. Probably am gonna give it to Toney who landed a ton of shots while Mike controlled portions of the round.

7. McCallum. Close round again. Mike abandoned the jab for large portions of the round here which may have thrown Toney off a little.

8. Toney. Mike should go back to the jab. He is getting countered cleanly here.

9. McCallum i think. Controlled.

10. Toney. He landed shots early and late that were extremely significant

11. McCallum. Mike's jab carried the round.

12. Toney. Surprised Mike didn't go down

7-5 toney.

imo the toughest round is round 6. I also think Round 10 was difficult to score as well in that when Toney landed it was great but Mike was making his miss a lot too.

7-5 for James Toney imo

 

[Absolut]

This is a great thread. I’ve been buried at work and haven’t been able to score yet. Great idea @Seano

 

[Seano]

This is a great thread. I’ve been buried at work and haven’t been able to score yet. Great idea @Seano

I stole it from another site but I think its a good idea. We get into an awful lot of dumb arguments over scores here sometimes.

 

[Boxiana]

Post your round by round score and a brief explanation of why you scored the round that way.

I like this thread.

I"d never seen this fight, didnt know the score and didnt read this thread before I watched. (I tried to find a version with non-English commentary, but without success). I"m writing this before I know the official score, or have read the thread.

Scored it 118-110 Toney.

Round 1: 10/9 Toney: Close, Toney cleaner jabs, slightly better in the exchanges
Round 2: 20/18 Toney: Clear, clean shots including a flush right hand. No KnockDown.
Round 3: 30/27 Toney: Closer. Toney more effective aggression, better defence, ring control
Round 4: 40/36 Toney: Hard exchanges in 2nd half of round. Toney controls first half which is the difference.
Round 5: 50/45 Toney: Clean right hand lands again, controlled the ring, good defence.
Round 6: 59/55: McCallum: First round for McCallum - close, success with jab, no clear winner in exchanges
Round 7: 69/64:Toney: Better in the exchanges, reading and avoiding McCallum
Round 8: 79/73: Toney: Clean counterpunching
Round 9: 88/84: McCallum: Landing, but tiring
Round 10: 98/93: Toney: Wild, but landed cleaner
Round 11: 108/102: Toney: Missing big until last punch, but controlling ring and better defence
Round 12: 118/111: Toney: Piling on the pressure, missing and landing big, close to finishing at end (?)

Now I"m going to read all about it!

 

[XThe GreatestX]

I like this thread.

I"d never seen this fight, didnt know the score and didnt read this thread before I watched. (I tried to find a version with non-English commentary, but without success). I"m writing this before I know the official score, or have read the thread.

Scored it 118-110 Toney.

Round 1: 10/9 Toney: Close, Toney cleaner jabs, slightly better in the exchanges
Round 2: 20/18 Toney: Clear, clean shots including a flush right hand. No KnockDown.
Round 3: 30/27 Toney: Closer. Toney more effective aggression, better defence, ring control
Round 4: 40/36 Toney: Hard exchanges in 2nd half of round. Toney controls first half which is the difference.
Round 5: 50/45 Toney: Clean right hand lands again, controlled the ring, good defence.
Round 6: 59/55: McCallum: First round for McCallum - close, success with jab, no clear winner in exchanges
Round 7: 69/64:Toney: Better in the exchanges, reading and avoiding McCallum
Round 8: 79/73: Toney: Clean counterpunching
Round 9: 88/84: McCallum: Landing, but tiring
Round 10: 98/93: Toney: Wild, but landed cleaner
Round 11: 108/102: Toney: Missing big until last punch, but controlling ring and better defence
Round 12: 118/111: Toney: Piling on the pressure, missing and landing big, close to finishing at end (?)

Now I"m going to read all about it!

Woah super wide

Interesting

 

[Boxiana]

Woah super wide

Interesting

I think Toney"s defence is what swung many of the close rounds for me - McCallum has a great jab, but Toney looked to catch a lot of them on his gloves / arms, and had really good head movement.

 

[Boxiana]

Great fight but I don’t see how Toney could have won.

When I have time I"m gonna print out your RBR and watch the fight again - see what I learn and if I have it closer as a result.

 

[Seano]

Woah super wide

Interesting

Yeah but its possible if you just liked Toney in all the close rounds.

 

[Old Cat]

Terrific fight, This match had about as high level work as one will ever see.

10-9 McCallum. Midround work was cleaner and at at a higher volume

Razor close

19-19 ..Toney’s righthand won him the round

Clear

29-28 McCallum. A bodyshot and a short right hand are all the set him apart from Tony

Close

38-38 .. The exchange around the two minute mark secured it for Tony, an exchange in which both men land but toney’s shot were harder.

Clear . Great round


48-47 Toney. Tony was the aggressor in a jab filled round and dropped righthand early on McCallum who used his legs to create some distance for much of the round

Close

58-56 Toney. The round sees Toney as the aggressor again, and the two minute mark is kind to him again as he lands the hardest punch of the fight w a bodyshot behind it for good measure to take the round. ( hey the commentators are stealing my lines)

Clear

68-65 Toney. His righthand gives him the round. It was the defining punch in , as the whole fight has been , a tactical jab filled round.

Clear


78-74 Toney. The first min and a half was controlled by McCallums jab and movement but Toney harder shots , again from the two min mark, erased McCallums early work.

Clear

87-84 Toney. Mike outworks his younger opponent to secure the round

Clear


97-93 Toney. The left hook by Toney is the defining punch of the round. He lead with it and used it as a follow up.

Both men look spent.


Close


106-103 Toney. The round saw McCallum controlling space w this jab and legs moving around Toney and keeping his younger man at bay.

Clear

116-112 Toney. Hurt his man mid round and right before the bell w the left.

Clear

Edit. I know there were some close rounds but don’t like the official score of a draw.

 

[TankAbbott4Eva]

Lets try this one. This fight came up recently and this was one we scored on a different site that made for good discussion.
Post your round by round score and a brief explanation of why you scored the round that way.

I'll put my RBR up later.

Good idea, I'll do this later tonight, would be good to have a weekly one happening.

 

[zapataxiv]

When I have time I"m gonna print out your RBR and watch the fight again - see what I learn and if I have it closer as a result.

I am thinking about going back over it in more detail but that is a big undertaking for a 12 round fight.
But toneys defense and offense was nothing to be impressed by in that fight he was basically a reaction based brawler who got showed up by mike.

 

[cottagecheesefan]

Here is the video I used, since the new one @Seano posted was a Japanese broadcast. Funny tho, since I actually like Japanese Broadcasts (big fan of Hajime No Ippo)



Rd 1 - Toney. Both have really good jabs and about equal with the jab. However, Toney threw better combos and did more of the dictating of the pace/engagements. at the 40second left in the round mark is a good example. Both jab well, and Toney throws a combo where nothing really connects, and McCallum throws in a counter right that also doesn't really connect. But Toney still threw more punches in the exchange. Then after a brief pause, he leads with another combo.

Rd2 - Toney, clearly. Landed better shots. at 210, he lands 2 good rights. Another at 1:59. A good upper cut at 1:40. Between 1:15 and :58, Toney lands a good combo and then a good right hand. These are all better than anything McCallum landed, and then Toney landed an even bigger shot with that hook before the slip.

Rd3 - Toney. Closer round than 2. McCallum getting his timing a little better and throwing a bit more with the right. Toney still landed slightly better shots, and more of them, especially the last minute of the round.

RD4 - McCallum. Great round. Both landed some hard shots, I feel Toney landed a couple more than Mike. However, Toney was a bit to hesitant, and McCallum's jab won him this round.

RD5 - McCallum. Toney landed the best shot of the round at 2min mark. But more of the same as previous round, McCallum out jabbing and being busier.

RD6 - Toney, clearly. Controlled first minute of the round, then Mike does well until 1:35 where Toney lands a good shot. 1:20 good hook for McCallum, but then Toney comes right back and gets the much better of that exchange. Last minute of the round is fairly even, but Toney clearly won the first 66% of the round.

RD7 - Toney. I think it was quite even, but Toney landed a few more eye catching shots than McCallum, throughout. McCallum did better at the end, but overall I got Toney.

Rd8 - Toney, clearly. Landed multiple right hands throughout the round, much better shots than anything McCallum landed.

RD9 - McCallum, clearly. Toney didn't do much, I heard the scorer on the broadcast give it to Toney... I don't see it at all, he only landed one shot at the very end.

RD10 - Toney, clearly. He came out strong, then took a minute and a half off for the most part, but then landed some big shots again starting with 1:05 left in the round, and continued to finish the round stronger than McCallum.

RD11 - McCallum. I think Toney was clearly tired from the round before. He fought too much in spurts, but this round he didn't land anything big enough to win the round with the bursts, he landed 1-2 good shots, but not enough. McCallum was much more consistent and applied pressure with an effective jab pretty much the entire round.

RD12 - Toney, clearly. Beat him up bad, surprised no knock down.

So I have it 8-4 for Toney. I feel the closest rounds were rds 1 and 7. So even if those rounds went to McCallum, it would be a draw. I still think it was a clear win for Toney, draw at the very worst.

edit: also wanted to say that I know defense is a category, but BOTH had tremendous defense in this fight doing subtle things. So I feel they pretty much negate each other in that regard.

 

[Boxiana]

I am thinking about going back over it in more detail but that is a big undertaking for a 12 round fight.

Up for debate, but scoring it ‘as live’ without waiting for mid round replays or rewatching sections, and only giving yourself a minute between rounds, makes it much more interesting IMO.

 

[Seano]

I am thinking about going back over it in more detail but that is a big undertaking for a 12 round fight.
But toneys defense and offense was nothing to be impressed by in that fight he was basically a reaction based brawler who got showed up by mike.

I could see that in some of the mid rounds . Toney was on and off there. He stole some rounds with power for sure.

 

[deucesarewild]

McCallum was just a bit past it here. Had he been at his sharpest I think he would have won. Toney was soooo good though. Prime Toney, when he shows up, freaking wonderful.

 

[zapataxiv]

Here is the video I used, since the new one @Seano posted was a Japanese broadcast. Funny tho, since I actually like Japanese Broadcasts (big fan of Hajime No Ippo)



Rd 1 - Toney. Both have really good jabs and about equal with the jab. However, Toney threw better combos and did more of the dictating of the pace/engagements. at the 40second left in the round mark is a good example. Both jab well, and Toney throws a combo where nothing really connects, and McCallum throws in a counter right that also doesn't really connect. But Toney still threw more punches in the exchange. Then after a brief pause, he leads with another combo.

Rd2 - Toney, clearly. Landed better shots. at 210, he lands 2 good rights. Another at 1:59. A good upper cut at 1:40. Between 1:15 and :58, Toney lands a good combo and then a good right hand. These are all better than anything McCallum landed, and then Toney landed an even bigger shot with that hook before the slip.

Rd3 - Toney. Closer round than 2. McCallum getting his timing a little better and throwing a bit more with the right. Toney still landed slightly better shots, and more of them, especially the last minute of the round.

RD4 - McCallum. Great round. Both landed some hard shots, I feel Toney landed a couple more than Mike. However, Toney was a bit to hesitant, and McCallum's jab won him this round.

RD5 - McCallum. Toney landed the best shot of the round at 2min mark. But more of the same as previous round, McCallum out jabbing and being busier.

RD6 - Toney, clearly. Controlled first minute of the round, then Mike does well until 1:35 where Toney lands a good shot. 1:20 good hook for McCallum, but then Toney comes right back and gets the much better of that exchange. Last minute of the round is fairly even, but Toney clearly won the first 66% of the round.

RD7 - Toney. I think it was quite even, but Toney landed a few more eye catching shots than McCallum, throughout. McCallum did better at the end, but overall I got Toney.

Rd8 - Toney, clearly. Landed multiple right hands throughout the round, much better shots than anything McCallum landed.

RD9 - McCallum, clearly. Toney didn't do much, I heard the scorer on the broadcast give it to Toney... I don't see it at all, he only landed one shot at the very end.

RD10 - Toney, clearly. He came out strong, then took a minute and a half off for the most part, but then landed some big shots again starting with 1:05 left in the round, and continued to finish the round stronger than McCallum.

RD11 - McCallum. I think Toney was clearly tired from the round before. He fought too much in spurts, but this round he didn't land anything big enough to win the round with the bursts, he landed 1-2 good shots, but not enough. McCallum was much more consistent and applied pressure with an effective jab pretty much the entire round.

RD12 - Toney, clearly. Beat him up bad, surprised no knock down.

So I have it 8-4 for Toney. I feel the closest rounds were rds 1 and 7. So even if those rounds went to McCallum, it would be a draw. I still think it was a clear win for Toney, draw at the very worst.

edit: also wanted to say that I know defense is a category, but BOTH had tremendous defense in this fight doing subtle things. So I feel they pretty much negate each other in that regard.

How was toneys defense equal to McCallums? He was falling all over himself and taking himself out of position. He was forgetting one of the basic tenets of boxing which is to “make em miss by an inch not a mile” that is one of the reasons why a lot of his shots were quite sloppy when he threw em. Like the cuffing shot at the end of the 2nd.
Mikes was much more impressive he was almways in a s position that let him move or hit. And his movements forced Toney to be immobile. This was the story throughout the fight. McCallum also shut down the shell from Toney but cutting elevation and pivoting around it a lot to the point Toney couldn’t even use his shell. Which is one of the reasons why I say mike schooled Toney in this fight. He out shelled Toney.

 

[zapataxiv]

McCallum was just a bit past it here. Had he been at his sharpest I think he would have won. Toney was soooo good though. Prime Toney, when he shows up, freaking wonderful.

I don’t think that is fair mike had ups and downs in his career. Here he was quicksilver as in he was quick still had both his hands (later in his career he lost his right hand power). Had his chin and feet stil under him. When he was younger he wasn’t as cerebral fighting and would be just as sloppy as Toney was offensively in this fight. Plus he also had a tendency to lay off the gas pedal late in fights in his early career which many say is why he didn’t become a star. Here he never let up throughout the fight.

 

[cottagecheesefan]

How was toneys defense equal to McCallums? He was falling all over himself and taking himself out of position. He was forgetting one of the basic tenets of boxing which is to “make em miss by an inch not a mile” that is one of the reasons why a lot of his shots were quite sloppy when he threw em. Like the cuffing shot at the end of the 2nd.
Mikes was much more impressive he was almways in a s position that let him move or hit. And his movements forced Toney to be immobile. This was the story throughout the fight. McCallum also shut down the shell from Toney but cutting elevation and pivoting around it a lot to the point Toney couldn’t even use his shell. Which is one of the reasons why I say mike schooled Toney in this fight. He out shelled Toney.

I dont see how you can say McCallum "clowned" someone defensively when he got hit the cleanest and most often in a fight. The punch stats are almost identical, with Toney have a slightly better connect %.. McCallum was only one ever hurt, and was bleeding.

All of that indicates anything but "clowning".

Both had excellent head movement and blocked shots with elbows, shoulders, rolled with punches etc.

I would rather maybe lose my balance some when being spun than being almost knocked out and getting hit cleanly throughout the fight

Not like he was putting up Mayweather punch stats or anything even close

Edit:

Just look at this clip. Time Stamped.



Both throw right hands at the same time. McCallum has left hand down and no head movement. Toney has left hand up and has head movement. McCallum gets hit clean, Toney doesnt.

You can't say one is clowning the other, when exchanges like this happen throughout the fight.

 

[cottagecheesefan]

Also look at this exchange, also time stamped.



Toney lands a good right, and then McCallum does that "defensive stuff" by spinning him and landing nothing of consequence, a short shot. That defensive stuff from McCallum is not more significant than the right hand Toney landed right before. Hagler might have said good defensive moves, but he also still got hit. Then a couple seconds after the spin, Toney lands the better hook between the two of them at 2:06 left in the round.

edit:

Or look here, time stamped. Catches McCallums hook by blocking it with his right hand, then throws a much tighter hook to McCallum's undefended face. That is textbook defense with a counter, and better than anything McCallum did in the fight.



even early in the fight, time stamped. Toney blocks punch with elbow and throws counter upper cut.



Here is an even better example, right after that little spin. Both miss a couple shots, Toney actually lands some in the exchange, then after making Mike miss again, lands a huge right hand. Toney lands 3 shots inside, Mike WIDELY misses 2, and then eats a big shot. That is NOT clowning lol, that is BEING clowned, if anything. (Not that I consider either being clowned or anything)





I mean, there is no denying he's got moves and is skilled, but it is not winning him rounds.

 

[Stevanchez]

Round 1: Toney 10-9
Round 2: Toney 10-9
Round 3: Toney 10-9
Round 4: McCallum 10-9
Round 5: McCallum 10-9
Round 6: Toney 10-9
Round 7: McCallum 10-9
Round 8: Toney 10-9
Round 9: McCallum 10-9
Round 10: Toney 10-9
Round 11: Toney 10-9
Round 12: Toney 10-9

Final: Toney 116-112