Let us talk about footwork and foot placement, and stance

[MadSquabbles500]

Let us talk about footwork and foot placement and stance for standup wrestling jacket, and no jacket. In the standup forum, they always talk about footwork, foot placement and stance. It is so important for striking. But then I think to myself, what if you find yourself in the clinch. That made me come in here and ask.

What are some ways you use footwork and foot placement and stance offensively, and defensively? Of course the #1 rule of thumb is the keep your feet and legs away from your opponent unless you are attacking.

Like when I was doing judo, I took the standard collar/lapel grip. I would stiff arm, lean forward, and try to keep my feet a little more than should width apart, and away from my opponent as far without having to depend too much on my grips for balance. Obviously to advance, you don't want to stay in such a static position. So any suggestion are welcome.

Also, in jacket wrestling, I tend to be more square up. I am not so afraid of the pushing motion, the driving forward action. I guess because the grips neutralize a lot of that direction. In no-gi, though, my feet will be staggered in case the opponent bull rushes me. And if I can get to the side of my opponent, I wont mind taking a sideway stance either temporarily.

But lets say your opponent is able to get his hip in close to you during the attack, or he is able to get a hold of one leg. What are some things you can do with your free or opposite leg to neutralize the attack? Also are there certain stances that facilitate certain categories of attacks better?

 

[MadSquabbles500]

That is cool, I guess everyone just starts on the knees.

 

[SummerStriker]

I don't really agree with keeping both feet away from the opponent and leaning in for mma. I think you are better off with a stagger stance because if you have neutral grips, you should be able to fight any shot, but if you are leaning you are at risk to knees and forward throws that would otherwise be impossible.

So feet just over shoulder width and staggered, knees bent, ideally enough to get forehead level with the opponent but retaining the ability to throw knees without loading them or leaning.

I try to maintain the same lead using the ordinary toe drag footwork, only taking walking steps on a pivot or off balancing attempt.

If I can't maintain this structure and feel dominant, then I try to get out of the clinch back to free movement range.

 

[Dirty Holt]

Asking about footwork and stance in wrestling is like asking about soup to a chef.

Whats the best way to make soup? I guess it depends on what kind you like, and what ingredients you have.

There are very few set "rules" of stance and footwork with stand up wrestling; its almost 100% individual.

Dont cross your feet
Dont bring your feet together
You cannot attack well out of a square stance
You are slower in a stationary stance
Do not lead with your overhook leg in a neutral bodylock

 

[Uchi Mata]

It's not a topic that can have a short answer. It would be like asking 'how do I sweep someone from guard?' Well, what's the situation, are you looking to defend, attack, is this Judo, BJJ, wrestling, what? Different things are important in different situations. Universal advice is so broad as to be almost useless. Keep your feet under your hips and shoulders. Keep a stance that is narrow enough that you can move without huge shifts of weight but broad enough that you can sprawl or otherwise drop your weight as needed. Don't cross your feet when you walk. Past that it's mostly specific responses to specific scenarios.

 

[SummerStriker]

You can definitely tell the difference in the level of sophistication between a TMA kick boxer and a real grappler when reading answers on this stuff.

 

[Rod1]

Its far more complicated in grappling than in striking, because in striking your opponent cant directly control your posture so reactions will be different.

Anyway in my experience between differences in wrestling and jacket.

In wrestling your opponent cant pull as hard as it can in jacket, but in jacket its easier to stop the forward momentum of your opponent.

In wrestling movement is more limited because its harder to move your opponent out of position, but armdrags and duck unders are easier and less dangerous.

 

[Rod1]

Asking about footwork and stance in wrestling is like asking about soup to a chef.

Whats the best way to make soup? I guess it depends on what kind you like, and what ingredients you have.

There are very few set "rules" of stance and footwork with stand up wrestling; its almost 100% individual.

Dont cross your feet
Dont bring your feet together
You cannot attack well out of a square stance
You are slower in a stationary stance
Do not lead with your overhook leg in a neutral bodylock

Just change overhook for lapel grip in a standard neutral lapel and sleeve grip, and its probably the most important footwork rule in judo.

 

[Rod1]

You can definitely tell the difference in the level of sophistication between a TMA kick boxer and a real grappler when reading answers on this stuff.

In most striking sports, contact and manipulation of your opponent movement is really limited, so its by definition less complicated than grappling since your opponent cant directly manipulate your posture.

 

[SummerStriker]

In most striking sports, contact and manipulation of your opponent movement is really limited, so its by definition less complicated than grappling since your opponent cant directly manipulate your posture.

Sort of. You can substitute strikes, like a forearm to the face, for other off balancing movements. You pretty much have to because people will not always assist you in maintaining contact, turning any room into space for hooks and uppercuts, which in most cases makes it easy to break any clinch, provided the striker in this story has enough grappling intelligence to keep his posture.

An awful lot of what you guys are saying rings true. It is more like these positions are reached naturally in my mind, because they disrupt knees and elbows, so in mma kick boxing, you can get to some of this stuff through negative reinforcement.

That's why it isn't especially easy to knee and elbow most wrestlers, even if they never trained in a striking art.

I think grappling in mma is more limited, for the most part, because like every combat sport, once you allow counters from other sports the move list that is highly functional shrinks while other things become easier.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

It's not a topic that can have a short answer. It would be like asking 'how do I sweep someone from guard?' Well, what's the situation, are you looking to defend, attack, is this Judo, BJJ, wrestling, what? Different things are important in different situations. Universal advice is so broad as to be almost useless. Keep your feet under your hips and shoulders. Keep a stance that is narrow enough that you can move without huge shifts of weight but broad enough that you can sprawl or otherwise drop your weight as needed. Don't cross your feet when you walk. Past that it's mostly specific responses to specific scenarios.

But I never see any thread about anything to do with the footwork for standup wrestling. That is why I start this thread, to bring attention to the subject. Just talk about any situation you want.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

In most striking sports, contact and manipulation of your opponent movement is really limited, so its by definition less complicated than grappling since your opponent cant directly manipulate your posture.

In wrestling/grappling, you can use you hands to block a direct manipulation attempt by your opponent.

Foot work, foot placement and stance may be more "complicated" in wrestling, but I would say it is less strenuous.

 

[cms9690]

That is cool, I guess everyone just starts on the knees.

Hahahah.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

Asking about footwork and stance in wrestling is like asking about soup to a chef.

Whats the best way to make soup? I guess it depends on what kind you like, and what ingredients you have.

There are very few set "rules" of stance and footwork with stand up wrestling; its almost 100% individual.

Dont cross your feet
Dont bring your feet together
You cannot attack well out of a square stance
You are slower in a stationary stance
Do not lead with your overhook leg in a neutral bodylock

That is true for striking also.

In jacket wrestling, I normally take a square stance. I dont know about not being to attack well though. If I take a one foot forward stance, I feel vulnerable.

 

[Uchi Mata]

But I never see any thread about anything to do with the footwork for standup wrestling. That is why I start this thread, to bring attention to the subject. Just talk about any situation you want.

Okay...in an opposite sided stance, you almost always want your lead foot on the outside. This allows you to footsweep and penetrate for singles or ankle picks much more easily. In a same side stance, in Judo you typically want to try and get your feet perpendicular with your opponent's. This allows you to enter quickly for turning throws as well as attack with various trips.

In Judo if you're in a same sided stance and your opponent has a power grip but no sleeve grip, you want to move towards the power grip to avoid opposite side attacks (like eri seio nage). If he has a power and a sleeve grip, you want to move towards the sleeve grip to avoid him setting you up for a big forward throw by manipulating you into a square stance (via moving you towards his power hand).

Footwork does matter in grappling, but it's typically combined with some sort of upper body manipulation as well. For example, I can tell you that short, semi circular backstep is useful for setting up an ankle pick, but that doesn't mean much if I don't also tell you that you want a wrist grip and a collar tie that allows you to force your opponent to take a bigger step giving you access to his ankle, while in a same side stance situation.

 

[Uchi Mata]

That is true for striking also.

In jacket wrestling, I normally take a square stance. I dont know about not being to attack well though. If I take a one foot forward stance, I feel vulnerable.

If you just take a square stance and stiff arm in Judo (which is what I assume you're referring to as 'jacket wrestling') you're never going to throw anyone and are very vulnerable to uchi mata and tomoe nage. You're not more vulnerable with one foot forward, you're just vulnerable to different throws. Ultimately defense in Judo is about gripping, posture, and hips, not really so much about stance. That's a very low level and easily defeated way to being defensive which also kills a lot of your offensive capabilities.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

Okay...in an opposite sided stance, you almost always want your lead foot on the outside. This allows you to footsweep and penetrate for singles or ankle picks much more easily. In a same side stance, in Judo you typically want to try and get your feet perpendicular with your opponent's. This allows you to enter quickly for turning throws as well as attack with various trips.

In Judo if you're in a same sided stance and your opponent has a power grip but no sleeve grip, you want to move towards the power grip to avoid opposite side attacks (like eri seio nage). If he has a power and a sleeve grip, you want to move towards the sleeve grip to avoid him setting you up for a big forward throw by manipulating you into a square stance (via moving you towards his power hand).

Footwork does matter in grappling, but it's typically combined with some sort of upper body manipulation as well. For example, I can tell you that short, semi circular backstep is useful for setting up an ankle pick, but that doesn't mean much if I don't also tell you that you want a wrist grip and a collar tie that allows you to force your opponent to take a bigger step giving you access to his ankle, while in a same side stance situation.

This sounds interesting, but I am having trouble understanding some of the description. What is opposite side stance, and what is power grip? Are you strictly referring to gi or no gi?

 

[MadSquabbles500]

Asking about footwork and stance in wrestling is like asking about soup to a chef.

Whats the best way to make soup? I guess it depends on what kind you like, and what ingredients you have.

There are very few set "rules" of stance and footwork with stand up wrestling; its almost 100% individual.

Dont cross your feet
Dont bring your feet together
You cannot attack well out of a square stance
You are slower in a stationary stance
Do not lead with your overhook leg in a neutral bodylock

When you say neutral bodylock, do you mean that over and under the Greco roman guys are in? If so, why couldn't you lead foot be the same side as the overhook? Cant you turn into a hip throw easier that way?

 

[MadSquabbles500]

Just change overhook for lapel grip in a standard neutral lapel and sleeve grip, and its probably the most important footwork rule in judo.

You would not lead with sleeve grip side foot either.

 

[Uchi Mata]

You would not lead with sleeve grip side foot either.

Sometimes you might. In Judo if you throw sode tsuri komi goshi it makes sense, also if you do a lot of lapel seio nage on the other side. This is what I meant about needed more specific questions to get good explanations, because the footwork you need is not universal, it depends on what you're trying to accomplish.