Leon Edwards Believes Jon Jones Beats Tom Aspinall in His Prime

[SamuraiBro]

Nevermind jones aspinall fantasies.

Im still pissed off at just how pathetic leon fought in his last 2 fights. Truly embarrassing performances. Like a sleepwalking bum.

He actually annoys me, fights the same as his personality.

Makes you think, just how fucking shit are Usman, Colby and Buckley I guess.

 

[Only Here for Attachments]

Pffft, what do fighters know about fighting?!

 

[The Bloody Nine]

Pffft, what do fighters know about fighting?!

Yep. No one delves into the mechanics of the sweet science, like Mike Perry.



Fighters are dumb as fuck, for the most part.

 

[fzoid4454]

I mean, great, he doesn't think Jones was, specifically, scared into retirement to duck Aspinall. That's a completely reasonable take. Sherdoggers are completely delusional with their fantasies of fear and ducking, for 95% of those claims.

But "Jones beats Aspinall in his prime" is also a bullshit fantasy take. Jones' prime was when he was fighting at 205.

There is no scenario where you can wind back the clock to his "prime," but he magically is post-weight-gain.

I think if Jones was motivated to keep training, he beats Aspinall. But we'll never know. Him entering the testing pool is just for his own ego-entertainment, where his name is constantly in MMA headlines, for no reason at all, and people dance to him messing with the puppet strings.

Or.... UFC announcing him "retired" frees him up to fight Jake Paul or Ngannou, after some legal wrangling. That's the only non-mindfucking-the-fans/media reason I see for it.

 

[HI SCOTT NEWMAN]

Certain things will only be found out in heaven

I intend to play every what IF fights when I get there + all the cats I can cuddle @HI SCOTT NEWMAN

Aww so cute, me too, I will be adopting even more cats in heaven, I hope it will be possible when I pass. If you can only adopt cats in this earth life then that would suck, I want to be able to do it in the afterlife as well <3

 

[JBJ was here]

But "Jones beats Aspinall in his prime" is also a bullshit fantasy take. Jones' prime was when he was fighting at 205.

There is no scenario where you can wind back the clock to his "prime," but he magically is post-weight-gain.

The difference between a somewhat flabby 238 lb. HW Jones and a fit Jones cutting from 225 lb. at LHW is diet in camp, not meaningful weight gain. Any difference in muscle mass was tiny and trivially gainable between signing for a fight and fighting the fight.

 

[Söze Aldo]

Crazy how Tom gets no support from his countryman.

 

[Mohawk Banditó]

Pffft, what do fighters know about fighting?!

Fighter A says Fighter B would beat Fighter C is widely recognized as a pretty worthless statement 99.9% of the time, but this time, Fighter B is Jones, so of course fighters are experts on the subject of predictions.

Quick, someone get Nam Phan on the phone

 

[mkess101]

Pffft, what do fighters know about fighting?!

Exactly! Imagine how rich you'd be if you just bet on the guy the majority of fighters picked every time!

 

[AstralPanda]

When you look at how most fighters have analyzed jones

There’s a distinct sense of logic, experience and operating in a place of respect and beyond emotion.

Fans could learn a lot from this.

Most have decided they don’t like jones for whatever reason or action, and that bias bleeds out into their analysis of his professional career.

You don’t see that with fighters in most cases and the result is a grounded, experienced and objective take.

Above all else, it highlights how far from truth most fans tend to be.

Unless someone is in a place where they’re free of these biases and emotional entanglements, the credibility simply isn’t there.

 

[mkess101]

When you look at how most fighters have analyzed jones

There’s a distinct sense of logic, experience and operating in a place of respect and beyond emotion.

Fans could learn a lot from this.

Most have decided they don’t like jones for whatever reason or action, and that bias bleeds out into their analysis of his professional career.

You don’t see that with fighters in most cases and the result is a grounded, experienced and objective take.

Above all else, it highlights how far from truth most fans tend to be.

Unless someone is in a place where they’re free of these biases and emotional entanglements, the credibility simply isn’t there.

Fighters (sometimes) bring their own biases. They're far from immune, and in some cases are far more delusional than any fan specifically BECAUSE of their proximity to the other fighters they're assessing.

The overwhelming majority of fans have never and will never have a personal interaction with the fighter they are analyzing. So while yes fans perspectives can be influenced (potentially a disproportionate amount) by what they see/read/hear about a fighter, that still doesn't have the impact that actual real life interaction does.

I'm not saying at all this is the case with Leon, but he could have had a situation for example with Aspinall where he felt snubbed or disrespected. A nothingburger even, but for some reason it stuck in his craw. Or maybe Jones was exceptionally nice to him a couple times. And with a different fighter it could be the opposite. Or they trained together once or twice and are unduly influenced by how those couple training sessions went.

Point is, fighters often don't have some sort of bias-free, keen insight. They can be even more swayed by things that really won't affect the outcome of a fight because they're living in the same ecosystem as the people they're assessing.

 

[AstralPanda]

Fighter A says Fighter B would beat Fighter C is widely recognized as a pretty worthless statement 99.9% of the time, but this time, Fighter B is Jones, so of course fighters are experts on the subject of predictions.

Quick, someone get Nam Phan on the phone

Fighters in general don’t have the biases that fans do. They also have more skin in the game, understand how to analyze it on an infinitely higher level.

So you have drastically higher fight Iq, mixed with analysis that doesn’t involve emotion or biases.

In general, most fighters aren’t necessarily any more intelligent than the masses, outside of a select few and top level guys.

But the credibility, competency and fight IQ difference from fans to fighters is enormous and it comes without emotional entanglement.

I always defer to fighters and have for a long time. Anyone who doesn’t is sort of neglecting the greatest resource possible for leveling up their fight IQ, beyond just training ourselves.

In this case, it’s not just Leon. A large amount of mma fighters, boxers, analysts, other athletes have said similar things.

Jones is widely viewed as the goat for a reason and there’s this weird thing where fans don’t even seem to know why.

 

[Mind Mine]

The difference between a somewhat flabby 238 lb. HW Jones and a fit Jones cutting from 225 lb. at LHW is diet in camp, not meaningful weight gain. Any difference in muscle mass was tiny and trivially gainable between signing for a fight and fighting the fight.

Jones had years to move up lol. Not to say he isn’t flabby but to say he couldn’t amass more muscle than a little in the amount of time he spent lifting and posting videos while not fighting is just not a concrete statement. He probably just put on fat and iy may be fat and some muscle. At this point not fighting and shrooming out doing seminars like Segal we can say fat.

 

[mkess101]

Fighters in general don’t have the biases that fans do. They also have more skin in the game, understand how to analyze it on an infinitely higher level.

So you have drastically higher fight Iq, mixed with analysis that doesn’t involve emotion or biases.

In general, most fighters aren’t necessarily any more intelligent than the masses, outside of a select few and top level guys.

But the credibility, competency and fight IQ difference from fans to fighters is enormous and it comes without emotional entanglement.

I always defer to fighters and have for a long time. Anyone who doesn’t is sort of neglecting the greatest resource possible for leveling up their fight IQ, beyond just training ourselves.

In this case, it’s not just Leon. A large amount of mma fighters, boxers, analysts, other athletes have said similar things.

Jones is widely viewed as the goat for a reason and there’s this weird thing where fans don’t even seem to know why.

You're mixing some good analysis with bad here. Yes, fighters and their insight are a good resource. I was one. My actual fight career was a blip (4 total fights, 2 ammy wins and 2 "pro" wins--quotes are because I got paid almost nothing so they were really glorified amateur fights too but technically pro because I did get paid SOMETHING). But the 6+ years training, cornering, being at the gym absolutely gave me a view that most fans won't get. It was low level, worlds away from the UFC but still worth something.

But thinking fighters are able to all put their biases aside and give emotion-free analysis is fantasy. I mean SOME can, yes. Plenty cannot. And they don't wear signs that show which can and which can't.

 

[AstralPanda]

You're mixing some good analysis with bad here. Yes, fighters and their insight are a good resource. I was one. My actual fight career was a blip (4 total fights, 2 ammy wins and 2 "pro" wins--quotes are because I got paid almost nothing so they were really glorified amateur fights too but technically pro because I did get paid SOMETHING). But the 6+ years training, cornering, being at the gym absolutely gave me a view that most fans won't get. It was low level, worlds away from the UFC but still worth something.

But thinking fighters are able to all put their biases aside and give emotion-free analysis is fantasy. I mean SOME can, yes. Plenty cannot. And they don't wear signs that show which can and which can't.

Nothing is ever absolute, black and white, nor would I ever describe it as such. There’s nuance to everything.

However, from what I’ve seen, fighters very rarely get involved in the tribalistic, group think, hive mind driven witch hunts that you see whenever a fighter or figure is widely hated.

Or loved for that matter, you see extremism and emotionality overriding reason with both sides.

Fighters in general tend to be more independent minded. They walk their own paths, with their own struggles and pain, into a realm that the masses could never hope to understand.

In most cases, you’re getting an opinion that is infinitely more objective. It doesn’t necessarily mean free from any semblance of bias, but the difference is astronomical when comparing the top fighters to the average fan.

The other factor is fight iq, experience and wisdom of MMA as a whole. At the highest level, you’re intricately aware of what makes Jones so good and why. Most fans don’t have this awareness. Not only that, but very few seem to even analyze or know why he’s so good to begin with.

The fight Iq, skillset, experience, wisdom and overall understanding of the game transcends anything most fans could even conceive of. And it’s expressed in a way that doesn’t have the same emotional entanglement that you see in the average group think driven masses, who may or may not be merging personal and professional lives in their analysis.



Nobody should rely on anyone for their thinking and analysis because this borders on idolization. I don’t personally need anyone to arrive at the conclusions I draw.



But, studying the best and brightest in the game provides perspective, especially when contrasted with what is common place within emotionally dominated fan circles and it highlights that there’s a sort of delusion and aversion to truth that tends to be common in most onlookers,

Most fans would be wise to study fighters, take note of every single opinion on a topic and try to understand why they feel the way they do, in order to learn what they’re seeing that they are not. A lot of people would change overnight if they did this.

Most fighters are saying similar things about Jones.

 

[GordoBarraBJJ]

Tom would have won but the judges would give it to jon.

 

[mkess101]

Nothing is ever absolute, black and white, nor would I ever describe it as such. There’s nuance to everything.

However, from what I’ve seen, fighters very rarely get involved in the tribalistic, group think, hive mind driven pitch fork witch hunts that you see whenever a fighter or figure is widely hated.

Or loved for that matter, you see extremism and emotionality overriding reason with both sides.

Fighters in general tend to be more independent minded. They walk their own paths, with their own struggles and pain, into a realm that the masses could never hope to understand.

In most cases, you’re getting an opinion that is infinitely more objective. It doesn’t necessarily mean free from any semblance of bias, but the difference is astronomical when comparing the top fighters to forum circle jerks and derangement cults.

The other factor is fight iq, experience and wisdom of MMA as a whole. At the highest level, you’re intricately aware of what makes Jones so good and why. Most fans don’t have this awareness. Not only that, but very few seem to even analyze or know why he’s so good to begin with.

The fight Iq, skillset, experience, wisdom and overall understanding of the game transcends anything most fans could even conceive of. And it’s expressed in a way that doesn’t have the same emotional entanglement that you see in the average group think driven masses, who may or may not be merging personal and professional lives in their analysis.



Nobody should rely on anyone for their thinking and analysis because this borders on idolization. I don’t personally need anyone to arrive at the conclusions I draw.



But, studying the best and brightest in the game provides perspective, especially when contrasted with what is common place within emotionally dominated fan circles and it highlights that there’s a sort of delusion and aversion to truth that tends to be common in most onlookers,

Most fans would be wise to study fighters, take note of every single opinion on a topic and try to understand why they feel the way they do, in order to learn what they’re seeing that they are not.

You're (mostly) right about the "group think" aspect. Fighters won't get super caught up in that. (Although they'll absolutely be tribalistic if it has to do with their camp.)

And no, casual fans (and some die hards) often don't know the nuances of what makes great fighters (including Jones) great.

I'd just be wary of attaching some of the views you have of top level fighters ans their ability to speak about other guys without emotion being a big part of it. I got to meet and hang out with (because of my coach) some top level guys. The way they talked about other fighters sometimes...hell yes emotion was driving it. Oleg Taktarov, Guy Metzger, Josh Neer, etc...every one of them had stories that made it clear they would be completely biased if asked about certain people.