legitimacy of black belts

[hayliks]

thats insane. from purple to black in a year of not every day training. I wish these people would come to renzo's and see how he does it.

It really is sickening. One of them got his purple belt about a month before I did (over 3 years ago), stopped training for a whole year, rolls like a white belt, forgot a bunch of shit, and suddenly gets a brown then a black, right in front of my eyes. The worst part is he completely thinks he deserves it. He's a big guy, probably pushing 270 or so 6'3", so he can muscle most guys, I was one of the few smaller purple belts that could submit him at will, most others he had just enough technique to control.

There's another guy that is probably no better than a white belt, trained once a week (if you could even call what he did training) for about 11 years. He generally spent class bitching about how the techniques wouldn't work, and how great Ken Shamrock and Royce Gracie are, his favorite line "I'd like to see you try that on Ken Shamrock." Like wtf does that even mean? Well he went from purple to black in 2 years, how he even got a blue or purple belt is beyond me. He would only ever roll with white belts, and always the newest ones. He is the type of person that should have been kicked out of the academy years ago.

A few others I know are probably deserving by now, they definitely got their blacks prematurely by a year or so, but if they've continued their consistent training and all they probably grew into it. When they did get their blacks you could hear all the current purple belts and up muttering "wtf? how did <insert name> get his black?"

I see it happening more and more everywhere. I'm afraid of when I get mine, I don't even feel like I deserve a brown belt. Recently I've been taking a look at my game and I'm very much a counter attacking grappler. I don't make mistakes, but I also don't take enough initiative, I'm very good at capitalizing at peoples' mistakes, but I need to learn to be more aggressive with my own game and I need it to work on people before I can be proud to wear the belt I have on now, and to be proud of a black belt that I will eventually receive in the future. When I mean I need it to work on people I don't mean purples and below, I need to be sweeping/submitting other brown belts and some black belts with some consistency. The guys I really look up to all were probably black belt level months before they got it, I want people below me to feel the same way about me.

 

[Masakatsu Funaki #1]

It really is sickening. One of them got his purple belt about a month before I did (over 3 years ago), stopped training for a whole year, rolls like a white belt, forgot a bunch of shit, and suddenly gets a brown then a black, right in front of my eyes. The worst part is he completely thinks he deserves it. He's a big guy, probably pushing 270 or so 6'3", so he can muscle most guys, I was one of the few smaller purple belts that could submit him at will, most others he had just enough technique to control.

There's another guy that is probably no better than a white belt, trained once a week (if you could even call what he did training) for about 11 years. He generally spent class bitching about how the techniques wouldn't work, and how great Ken Shamrock and Royce Gracie are, his favorite line "I'd like to see you try that on Ken Shamrock." Like wtf does that even mean? Well he went from purple to black in 2 years, how he even got a blue or purple belt is beyond me. He would only ever roll with white belts, and always the newest ones. He is the type of person that should have been kicked out of the academy years ago.

A few others I know are probably deserving by now, they definitely got their blacks prematurely by a year or so, but if they've continued their consistent training and all they probably grew into it. When they did get their blacks you could hear all the current purple belts and up muttering "wtf? how did <insert name> get his black?"

I see it happening more and more everywhere. I'm afraid of when I get mine, I don't even feel like I deserve a brown belt. Recently I've been taking a look at my game and I'm very much a counter attacking grappler. I don't make mistakes, but I also don't take enough initiative, I'm very good at capitalizing at peoples' mistakes, but I need to learn to be more aggressive with my own game and I need it to work on people before I can be proud to wear the belt I have on now, and to be proud of a black belt that I will eventually receive in the future. When I mean I need it to work on people I don't mean purples and below, I need to be sweeping/submitting other brown belts and some black belts with some consistency. The guys I really look up to all were probably black belt level months before they got it, I want people below me to feel the same way about me.

Hayliks, I swear man..you're steadily making your way to being considered my favorite poster EVER here at sherdog.

 

[blackfish]

It really is sickening. One of them got his purple belt about a month before I did (over 3 years ago), stopped training for a whole year, rolls like a white belt, forgot a bunch of shit, and suddenly gets a brown then a black, right in front of my eyes. The worst part is he completely thinks he deserves it.

What's the name of the academy? Remind me never to train at that place.

 

[Dannicus]

How many stripes does Renzo have?

According to http://www.gracie.com/riofed/beltranking.html

Renzo is a 4th degree black belt making him a Professor. Though it has a date on the bottom as 2000. If you read the information on his academy website, they call him Master Renzo Gracie, which would put him at a 7th or 8th degree if he is indeed at that level.

 

[Kakkarot]

"hard to tell, his belt is all fucked up and worn out"

-

LMFAO!!

 

[350 lbs fist]

It really is sickening. One of them got his purple belt about a month before I did (over 3 years ago), stopped training for a whole year, rolls like a white belt, forgot a bunch of shit, and suddenly gets a brown then a black, right in front of my eyes. The worst part is he completely thinks he deserves it. He's a big guy, probably pushing 270 or so 6'3", so he can muscle most guys, I was one of the few smaller purple belts that could submit him at will, most others he had just enough technique to control.

There's another guy that is probably no better than a white belt, trained once a week (if you could even call what he did training) for about 11 years. He generally spent class bitching about how the techniques wouldn't work, and how great Ken Shamrock and Royce Gracie are, his favorite line "I'd like to see you try that on Ken Shamrock." Like wtf does that even mean? Well he went from purple to black in 2 years, how he even got a blue or purple belt is beyond me. He would only ever roll with white belts, and always the newest ones. He is the type of person that should have been kicked out of the academy years ago.

A few others I know are probably deserving by now, they definitely got their blacks prematurely by a year or so, but if they've continued their consistent training and all they probably grew into it. When they did get their blacks you could hear all the current purple belts and up muttering "wtf? how did <insert name> get his black?"

I see it happening more and more everywhere. I'm afraid of when I get mine, I don't even feel like I deserve a brown belt. Recently I've been taking a look at my game and I'm very much a counter attacking grappler. I don't make mistakes, but I also don't take enough initiative, I'm very good at capitalizing at peoples' mistakes, but I need to learn to be more aggressive with my own game and I need it to work on people before I can be proud to wear the belt I have on now, and to be proud of a black belt that I will eventually receive in the future. When I mean I need it to work on people I don't mean purples and below, I need to be sweeping/submitting other brown belts and some black belts with some consistency. The guys I really look up to all were probably black belt level months before they got it, I want people below me to feel the same way about me.

Shit, that's sad.

But fortunately competitions weed out the importance of these fake belts.

They can sit around and congratulate themselves but the real attention given by noobs go to the ones winning tourneys. And if you win tourneys at black belt you definitely deserve it.

 

[hayliks]

haha thanks, Masakatsu Funaki #1

Shit, that's sad.

But fortunately competitions weed out the importance of these fake belts.

They can sit around and congratulate themselves but the real attention given by noobs go to the ones winning tourneys. And if you win tourneys at black belt you definitely deserve it.

The problem with that is I would say that the vast majority of people who train bjj don't compete, and even if they do/did, don't continue to compete as much once they reach higher belts. Unfortunately, I'm one of those guys, I haven't competed in about a year and 2 months. I simply don't have the time anymore and it sucks, I barely get to train twice a week as it is right now.

Not everything can be proven in tournaments anyways, one of my friends is a black belt and he taps out guys everywhere in the gym, he went to a Royce Gracie (I'm 100% not saying Royce is a top black belt by any means) seminar about a year ago and caught Royce in two chokes, but loosened up on them and let him escape out of respect. Does that make my friend a better black belt than Royce? Well, technical knowledge he probably doesn't come close, gym rolling he could put a ton of black belts in a world of trouble and I've seen it, but when it comes to competition he chokes harder than I have seen anybody. He's been a black belt for 3 years now and competes 2-3 times/year and has not won a match at the black belt level. Maybe he's getting unlucky in who he competes against and maybe he just really chokes.

Then there's another guy I know who doesn't deserve a black belt, hasn't competed since blue and competed once as a black, went up against Lovato Jr. and got tapped in ~1 min. Jr. can tap some very tough black belts in ~1 min, but from what I heard he didn't even look like he was trying when he submitted this other black belt.

 

[hayliks]

double

 

[j_johl]

Yes there is a difference from school to school in level of skill required for a belt promotion. This doesn't stop at black. However, I wouldn't use MMA success to define whether or not they are deserving.

BJJ is just a component of MMA. Knowing BJJ doesn't translate to knowing MMA. It's a completely different beast. Same is true for gi vs. no gi. Just because your an awesome no gi competitor doesn't mean you'll have the same success in a gi. Look at Ryan Hall for example. Taps out black belts in no gi, but struggles with other purples with it. It's just two completely different games.

As far as a test... there is no test. BJJ is not how well you know moves it is how well you can execute those moves on a fully resisting partner. Just because you can properly apply a triangle to a someone allowing it, doesn't translate to being able to set it up and finish it on someone who is trained to defend.

I agree. It all depends on where you train and who you train under, because not every gym or every instructor is as good as the other

 

[Wrestler189]

good stuff

I have noticed some quick promoting at lower levels like white to blue, but higher up not as much in my expirience

There are clearly different levels of black belts. Din Thomas is a black belt in BJJ. I'm sure he is a great gi grappler, but no way he could compete in the mundials or any thing like that.

Also, just because I can tap someone of a higher belt doesnt mean I shouild be that belt. I've tapped blues and done OK against some purples, but technique wise I am a white belt no doubt. I can scramble well and I generally have a wrestlign advantage over my opponents.

To me a black belt doesnt mean he can beat others. He shoudl be competent on the mat but jsut because you are tapped by brown belts, doesnt mean you dont deserve your black. Injury, carido, age etc can all influence how you roll. Technique and teaching ablility should be a big factor in promotion imo

 

[YeahBee]

hard to tell, his belt is all fucked up and worn out

that tells it right there doesn't it

 

[350 lbs fist]

haha thanks, Masakatsu Funaki #1



The problem with that is I would say that the vast majority of people who train bjj don't compete, and even if they do/did, don't continue to compete as much once they reach higher belts. Unfortunately, I'm one of those guys, I haven't competed in about a year and 2 months. I simply don't have the time anymore and it sucks, I barely get to train twice a week as it is right now.

Not everything can be proven in tournaments anyways, one of my friends is a black belt and he taps out guys everywhere in the gym, he went to a Royce Gracie (I'm 100% not saying Royce is a top black belt by any means) seminar about a year ago and caught Royce in two chokes, but loosened up on them and let him escape out of respect. Does that make my friend a better black belt than Royce? Well, technical knowledge he probably doesn't come close, gym rolling he could put a ton of black belts in a world of trouble and I've seen it, but when it comes to competition he chokes harder than I have seen anybody. He's been a black belt for 3 years now and competes 2-3 times/year and has not won a match at the black belt level. Maybe he's getting unlucky in who he competes against and maybe he just really chokes.

Then there's another guy I know who doesn't deserve a black belt, hasn't competed since blue and competed once as a black, went up against Lovato Jr. and got tapped in ~1 min. Jr. can tap some very tough black belts in ~1 min, but from what I heard he didn't even look like he was trying when he submitted this other black belt.

I hear you.

But as long as the focus in the sport is on competition, no matter how many poser blacks there might be the Roger Gracies, Jacares and Marcelo Garcias of this world will be the ones people will look up to.

Maybe it will turn out like judo in the future where a black is not an indication of anything more than that you have trained consistently over an extended period of time.

 

[Balto]

I think this ties into the whole "Purple is the new blue" thing.

The level BJJ in America has risen dramatically in the past few years. I have only been doing "BJJ" since about 2004, although I have grappled for longer than that. However, even in four years, I can see that the skill level has changed quite a bit. There are now many more high level belts walking around than there were previously.

When I was a white belt in BJJ, I was beaten regularly by my first instructor who was a blue belt. I did tap him on some occasions, but the vast majority of the time I was dominated. To me it seemed that a blue belt was a very difficult opponent to face. I could only imagine what a purple belt or brown belt would be like. A black belt I assumed would probably tap me in less than 15 seconds every time.

Of course, as I progressed, my view on this began to change. When I had been a blue belt for about 8 months, I rolled with my first black belt ever. Although he tapped me several times, I also managed to tap him one time. It was not a 100% competition roll of course, but it was clear that he did not mean to be submitted by me. He simply made a mistake that I capitalized on for the submission. I could tell from rolling with him that he was a far better grappler than me, but I learned that he was still human and it was possible for me to beat someone at this level given the right circumstances.

Now when I roll with a black belt, I am able to look past the belt itself and see the man. I have learned that there are some incredible black belts, and there are some less than incredible black belts. It all depends on the person.

I'm not sure that the incidence of less than incredible black belts is a recent phenomenon though. I think it's likely they may have always been there. It's just that when I first started as a white belt, I did not have the perspective to see this. Now that it's four years later, I am starting to be able to differentiate. The only thing that changed was my own perception.

I haven't really been in BJJ long enough to comment on the absolute trend in ranks, but I know that my own changing perception definitely would make it difficult to do so even if I had been in BJJ longer.

 

[Nickynoneck]

You see the discrepancy in Judo too. There are Dans out there who got their belts through Kata and getting points working at tournements. They are usually horribly out of shape. Then they get tooled by the hungry Brown Belts in Shiai.

On the other hand there are Black Belts that sweat, bled and cried to get where they were at through combat and brutal randori. Those are the ones to fear.

Obviously being a fan of Judo as a combat sport I have more respect for the "fighting Dans" than the Kata ones, but to each their own.

my judo club is like that you fight for your belts you win at tournaments you most likley get a belt . i went from yellow to blue in one year cuz i kept winning at tournaments the only time you do kata in my club is when you get your brown belt and black no one in my club has had a belt handed to them with out deserving it .

i think thats the difference between judo/bjj and other martial arts .