legitimacy of black belts

[coulsdonbadboy]

unlike most martial arts where all black belts have passed a test of katas/stamina and moves, BJJ doesnt have any kind of black belt "test". does that mean that there is a big gap in quality between some black belts and others. I hear ofen that certian academy black belts are held in higher regard then others, there are tons of UFC fighters with black belts in BJJ, yet they can get outclassed by other fighters with less of a background or a lower belt rank. Maybe the offical comminsion of BJJ shouyld have some kind of criteria that al black belts have to meet

 

[Calibur]

They dont get outclassed in Grappling matches.

BJJ is a martial art on tactile sensitivity. It cant be tested by conventional means. It's system has worked just fine so far and as long as they keep the competitions the same, the standards will remain relatively high.

 

[ILGrappler]

I agree with Calibur. UFC is not BJJ.

 

[armbarking]

Yes there is a difference from school to school in level of skill required for a belt promotion. This doesn't stop at black. However, I wouldn't use MMA success to define whether or not they are deserving.

BJJ is just a component of MMA. Knowing BJJ doesn't translate to knowing MMA. It's a completely different beast. Same is true for gi vs. no gi. Just because your an awesome no gi competitor doesn't mean you'll have the same success in a gi. Look at Ryan Hall for example. Taps out black belts in no gi, but struggles with other purples with it. It's just two completely different games.

As far as a test... there is no test. BJJ is not how well you know moves it is how well you can execute those moves on a fully resisting partner. Just because you can properly apply a triangle to a someone allowing it, doesn't translate to being able to set it up and finish it on someone who is trained to defend.

 

[suckerpunch]

I think if they are able to exucute certain techniques in high level competition thats what gets you up to your next belt or whatever.

 

[Thrawn33]

You see the discrepancy in Judo too. There are Dans out there who got their belts through Kata and getting points working at tournements. They are usually horribly out of shape. Then they get tooled by the hungry Brown Belts in Shiai.

On the other hand there are Black Belts that sweat, bled and cried to get where they were at through combat and brutal randori. Those are the ones to fear.

Obviously being a fan of Judo as a combat sport I have more respect for the "fighting Dans" than the Kata ones, but to each their own.

 

[Gsoares2***]

legitmacy comes down to lineage... the way it is.. the way its always been.. the way it always will be.

 

[hayliks]

the ufc is a terrible way to decide the legitimacy of a black belt. Most fans don't understand the difference. I've seen a number of very high level grapplers, world champions even get owned in sparring for mma. As for actual legitimacy there is an enormous difference between the top bjj competitors and the lower noncompetitove bjj guys, but generally does not mean that these black belts are not deserving. However, I have seen a number of guys recently that do not deserve their black belts. It is sad to see especially when they get their belts from some very legitimate guys.

 

[stlnl2]

However, I have seen a number of guys recently that do not deserve their black belts. It is sad to see especially when they get their belts from some very legitimate guys.

Not deserving to you maybe? Maybe what makes thos guys legit is the fact they know better than you or me what BB is?

 

[georgejjr]

A black belt in judo means almost nothing. People ask what competitions you've placed in, they never ask your rank, or care.

I got to admit, coming from a wrestling and judo background, that I don't get the concern about belts. Championship belts are meaningful, other than that its just colored cloth.

 

[Thrawn33]

A black belt in judo means almost nothing. People ask what competitions you've placed in, they never ask your rank, or care.

I got to admit, coming from a wrestling and judo background, that I don't get the concern about belts. Championship belts are meaningful, other than that its just colored cloth.

A Judo black belt does mean something. It means that you're the guy the Kyu's in your club look up too. It means you're now reguarded as a serious student in the game. Granted it isn't always an indication of skill, but it makes you a target for the brown belts you're fighting in comps.

Serious Judo players of all ranks care more about your wins than your belt color, but the Black Belt is still a symbol and a goal for many up and comers.

 

[stlnl2]

A black belt in judo means almost nothing. People ask what competitions you've placed in, they never ask your rank, or care.

I got to admit, coming from a wrestling and judo background, that I don't get the concern about belts. Championship belts are meaningful, other than that its just colored cloth.

Then think of it like this, its an education degree. Just because someone graduated from college with a degree (or even advanced degree, like a master's or a PhD) does not make them all knowing, but it generally in our world does show a certain amount of knowledge that is expected to be there and a certain ability in a field.

This is what BJJ is supposed to mean (rank that is) a certain level of competence to go with that belt. It is what has separated it from alot of the more money-centric arts around the world. At the higher levels it is supposed to reflect the ability to teach and function.

So to me a high end BJJ belt is supposed to function like a college degree, if you have one there is a certain baseline you should be working from, not necessarily top of the class, but a definite level of competence, understanding, and practical application.

 

[Gsoares2***]

People amaze me - its like asking if all running backs are created equal.. or is everyone who plays professional basketball Michael jordan. NO they are not..

Black belt just means the teacher has nothing left to teach that guy - some guys peak way before others.. Some dudes are only going to get so good.. they get their black belt based on how much of the capacity they have achieved based on the teachers opinion.

There are good black belts, and there are complete pussy black belts.. all walks of life - just as you see huge variances in every other belt.. black is no different.

 

[hayliks]

there are black belts out there that honestly don't deserve to he black belts. I'm saying guys that went from low purple to black in a year of inconsistent training where they can't even teach certain techniques with enough detail that any other black belt could teach, or even low level browns. Its sickening really, but it seems to be happening more and more

 

[Thrawn33]

there are black belts out there that honestly don't deserve to he black belts. I'm saying guys that went from low purple to black in a year of inconsistent training where they can't even teach certain techniques with enough detail that any other black belt could teach, or even low level browns. Its sickening really, but it seems to be happening more and more

Very true. Making black belts make you money.

Its only natural. As the pool of players gets bigger more people will be promoted before their time.

 

[infamous mattyd]

there are black belts out there that honestly don't deserve to he black belts. I'm saying guys that went from low purple to black in a year of inconsistent training where they can't even teach certain techniques with enough detail that any other black belt could teach, or even low level browns. Its sickening really, but it seems to be happening more and more

thats insane. from purple to black in a year of not every day training. I wish these people would come to renzo's and see how he does it.

 

[infamous mattyd]

People amaze me - its like asking if all running backs are created equal.. or is everyone who plays professional basketball Michael jordan. NO they are not..

Black belt just means the teacher has nothing left to teach that guy - some guys peak way before others.. Some dudes are only going to get so good.. they get their black belt based on how much of the capacity they have achieved based on the teachers opinion.

There are good black belts, and there are complete pussy black belts.. all walks of life - just as you see huge variances in every other belt.. black is no different.

I go back with you a long way, back when you were just gsoares, and I agree with almost everything you say. However, a blackbelt is just the begining at Renzo's. Renzo has had his blackbelt since he was about 18 and is now 38 I beleive. He has plenty to teach new black belts.

 

[El Ninja]

I go back with you a long way, back when you were just gsoares, and I agree with almost everything you say. However, a blackbelt is just the begining at Renzo's. Renzo has had his blackbelt since he was about 18 and is now 38 I beleive. He has plenty to teach new black belts.

How many stripes does Renzo have?

 

[Chris Kimmerly]

As far as a test... there is no test. BJJ is not how well you know moves it is how well you can execute those moves on a fully resisting partner. Just because you can properly apply a triangle to a someone allowing it, doesn't translate to being able to set it up and finish it on someone who is trained to defend.

What he siad.

I also feel all martaial arts should be graded this way. IF you cannot execute techniques on a resisting opponent then you DO NOT DESERVE to advance. It should be like that in TKD, Karate, chop saki whatever.

 

[infamous mattyd]

How many stripes does Renzo have?

hard to tell, his belt is all fucked up and worn out