Leaving Neverland...

Did Michael Jackson sexually abuse children?

  • Yes, he did.

  • No, he did not.

  • I don't know.

Results are only viewable after voting.
DangDaGawd said:
MJ didn't do this! It was the God damn Dutch...
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DM1982 said:
This is all well and good - but nothing is gonna be able to debunk Michael himself going on camera, with a little boy resting on his shoulder, and admitting spending numerous nights sleeping in bed with boys.



Good God man, this is practically an admission, what more could you possibly need to see what went on here - a sex tape?

I admire your refusal to believe mainstream narratives, and not blindly believe bullshit and hidden agendas.

But there's nothing disputable here, Michael spent the night in the same bed as little boys on numerous occasions;

Do you truly believe hand on heart Michael never did anything sexually with boys?
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'In my heart?' Talk about melodramatic.

As I've said before in this thread, I'm not a fan of Michael Jackson, so I can come to an unbiased opinion on the matter.

One of the biggest mis-communications in this story, for 25 years, is that Michael Jackson slept in the same bed with young boys.

It is factually true, but the details against the media narrative are left out.

He never slept close, in bed, with children. He never 'spooned' with them. They were always on separate sides of the bed. If you want details watch the entire video I posted, it goes into it further with a child they interviewed.

Michael always got the parents permission, and they knew he and their kids slept in the same bed. Dozens of different parents between dozens of kids. Yet, no other kids (or their parents) came out and claimed Michael molested them - EVEN AFTER THR $25 MILLION CIVIL SUIT SETTLEMENT.

As for if I'm certain if he's innocent, yes, based on all evidence I've seen no court could convict Michael Jackson of any crime.

But, on the other hand, am I so certain if I was a parent of one of those boys (or girls) and Michael freakin Jackson asked if he could have a sleepover with my son or daughter - Oh Fuck No.

And, that said, that goes to any adult. Period.
 
GearSolidMetal said:
'In my heart?' Talk about melodramatic.

As I've said before in this thread, I'm not a fan of Michael Jackson, so I can come to an unbiased opinion on the matter.

One of the biggest mis-communications in this story, for 25 years, is that Michael Jackson slept in the same bed with young boys.

It is factually true, but the details against the media narrative are left out.

He never slept close, in bed, with children. He never 'spooned' with them. They were always on separate sides of the bed. If you want details watch the entire video I posted, it goes into it further with a child they interviewed.

Michael always got the parents permission, and they knew he and their kids slept in the same bed. Dozens of different parents between dozens of kids. Yet, no other kids (or their parents) came out and claimed Michael molested them - EVEN AFTER THR $25 MILLION CIVIL SUIT SETTLEMENT.

As for if I'm certain if he's innocent, yes, based on all evidence I've seen no court could convict Michael Jackson of any crime.

But, on the other hand, am I so certain if I was a parent of one of those boys (or girls) and Michael freakin Jackson asked if he could have a sleepover with my son or daughter - Oh Fuck No.

And, that said, that goes to any adult. Period.
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Your last 2 statements seem to contradict one another, so you don't even seem certain of what to conclude.

'As for if I'm certain if he's innocent, yes, based on all evidence I've seen no court could convict Michael Jackson of any crime' - as for this statement, I'm confused. At first you're phrasing it like you don't think he molested kids, but end the sentence saying you can't see how a court could convict him based on the evidence - that's not what I was asking you.

But whatever, it was a good answer, we'll agree to disagree and leave it at that
 
I think the new documentary had one throwaway line about one or both of the alleged victims now looking to sue Jackson's estate. I felt like that should have been brought forware a little more. It was glossed over.

I've flip-flopped on the Jackson case for years, mostly believing that he didn't do it, but there's one thing which really sticks out to me:

Louis Theroux made a documentary about trying and failing to get the Jackson interview that Bashir eventually got. In it, he spoke to a guy who had made friends with Jackson as a kid. The usual stuff about them staying in contact and all that, apart from one thing. The guy said that Jackson would phone him and masturbate on the other end. He said it in such a nonchalant kind of way, like it was just one little thing and he wasn't looking to make a big deal of it or get paid off.

Maybe he was just wrong and Jackson wasn't masturbating, but the way he talked about it like it was just one little thing made him seem like he was telling the truth. That's something which has always stuck with me.
 
DM1982 said:
Your last 2 statements seem to contradict one another, so you don't even seem certain of what to conclude.

'As for if I'm certain if he's innocent, yes, based on all evidence I've seen no court could convict Michael Jackson of any crime' - as for this statement, I'm confused. At first you're phrasing it like you don't think he molested kids, but end the sentence saying you can't see how a court could convict him based on the evidence - that's not what I was asking you.

But whatever, it was a good answer, we'll agree to disagree and leave it at that
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No, they don't contradict.

Based on the evidence, no jury could convict Jackson 'beyond a reasonable doubt.'

There's layers upon layers of reasonable doubt on every aspect of this case, and its amazing it ever went to criminal trial in 2005.

But just because someone is found 'not guilty' does not mean they did not commit the crime.

OJ Simpson.

There's no way to prove that Jackson never molested children. Even if there's a 99% certainty, that 1% chance would lead me, as a protective father, to politely say 'No, Michael Jackson, you cannot have my son over for a sleepover, thank you.'

Understand where I'm coming from?
 
blaseblah said:
You need to read up on how the law works. A court not finding you guilty doesn't mean you are innocent of the crime. See the OJ trial.
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jeez
Can't let it go, can't ya?
If your not guilty, your not guilty.
Then yeah your innocent.
What else would you be?
LOL
 
houjebek said:
jeez
Can't let it go, can't ya?
If your not guilty, your not guilty.
Then yeah your innocent.
What else would you be?
LOL
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You seem to have zero comprehension skills, nor do you understand how courts are different from real life.

If I commit a murder, and there is not enough evidence to convict me, then they would give me a not guilty verdict. That doesn't mean I am innocent. I still committed the murder. All it means is the jury decided they didn't have enough evidence to prove I was guilty.
 


found this, didnt see it yet though.
apparently he filmed neverland for the 2005 trial.

Edit: Has some really interesting footage. Enjoying it a lot. Gives some insight on what Martin Bashir did in his documentary which is pretty shady.

Finished it. found it very good.
 
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This one was interesting too. They really did a fuckload of different takes. Especially for the "difficult" scenes. I agree with the creator of the vid. The interviews with the family were completely irrelevant, they had never claimed to have seen anything.
 
GearSolidMetal said:
'In my heart?' Talk about melodramatic.

As I've said before in this thread, I'm not a fan of Michael Jackson, so I can come to an unbiased opinion on the matter.

One of the biggest mis-communications in this story, for 25 years, is that Michael Jackson slept in the same bed with young boys.

It is factually true, but the details against the media narrative are left out.

He never slept close, in bed, with children. He never 'spooned' with them. They were always on separate sides of the bed. If you want details watch the entire video I posted, it goes into it further with a child they interviewed.

Michael always got the parents permission, and they knew he and their kids slept in the same bed. Dozens of different parents between dozens of kids. Yet, no other kids (or their parents) came out and claimed Michael molested them - EVEN AFTER THR $25 MILLION CIVIL SUIT SETTLEMENT.

As for if I'm certain if he's innocent, yes, based on all evidence I've seen no court could convict Michael Jackson of any crime.

But, on the other hand, am I so certain if I was a parent of one of those boys (or girls) and Michael freakin Jackson asked if he could have a sleepover with my son or daughter - Oh Fuck No.

And, that said, that goes to any adult. Period.
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You must be a firm believer in the presumption of innocence as I am. My opinion based on all the information I’ve reviewed on the matter is I don’t know and in criminal court I don’t know = Not Guilty. I voted I don’t know in this poll as well.
 
It blows my brain how cavalier and light heart the mom's retelling of the part of the story where her hotel room was gradually moving further and further away from her son and micheal's.

like is she not making the connection that while she was living it up in that hotel room her son was supposedly being sexually molested?

I'd be fucking angry and depressed retelling that if I were in her shoes. But like Shuab...I don't care who the fuck you are or how much money you have...you are not sleeping in the same bed as my son. So I, thankfully, will never be in her shoes.
 
Mcountry said:
It blows my brain how cavalier and light heart the mom's retelling of the part of the story where her hotel room was gradually moving further and further away from her son and micheal's.

like is she not making the connection that while she was living it up in that hotel room her son was supposedly being sexually molested?

I'd be fucking angry and depressed retelling that if I were in her shoes. But like Shuab...I don't care who the fuck you are or how much money you have...you are not sleeping in the same bed as my son. So I, thankfully, will never be in her shoes.
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Agreed, but the 1980s were a different time. The general public had no idea :eek::eek::eek::eek:philia was so damn common.

In the 90s, constant news reports of three things changed that - Michael Jackson, internet child pornography, and 'To Catch A Predator.'

Before this, the absolute worst thing someone could be accused of being, was a racist. But afterwards, :eek::eek::eek::eek:philia accusations were far far more damaging.

The presumed trust between adults and children was destroyed.
 
GearSolidMetal said:
Agreed, but the 1980s were a different time. The general public had no idea :eek::eek::eek::eek:philia was so damn common.

In the 90s, constant news reports of three things changed that - Michael Jackson, internet child pornography, and 'To Catch A Predator.'

Before this, the absolute worst thing someone could be accused of being, was a racist. But afterwards, :eek::eek::eek::eek:philia accusations were far far more damaging.

The presumed trust between adults and children was destroyed.
Click to expand...

These interviews are now though. She is reminiscing right now about how her son was being molested back then.

She's fucked in the head.
 
Mcountry said:
It blows my brain how cavalier and light heart the mom's retelling of the part of the story where her hotel room was gradually moving further and further away from her son and micheal's.

like is she not making the connection that while she was living it up in that hotel room her son was supposedly being sexually molested?
Click to expand...
Another component people might be overlooking is that molestation changes the victim. There are some victims that are too young to grasp the crimes being committed against them, but if you weigh the interviews against their ages at the time plus the notion that "the parents should have known better," you might reasonably assume there should be some change in each victim's behavior that cannot be offset with bribery nor blackmail. Is it the case that the parents were so removed from reality they didn't notice any shift in personality? Is it possible there was no shift at all?
 
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