Social Lauren Boebert theater pocket pool and transexual discussion

[terrapin]

They're not experts. You haven't explained how they are experts in the field being discussed. You explained how they reached their opinions, not how they became experts in the field itself.

I haven't argued against their opinions. I haven't commented on their opinions or their conclusions at all. I said they are not experts. They are smart people who have opinions.

I love philosophy but an expert in philosophy is not an expert in anything except philosophy. The logic you're presenting is that if a philosopher philosophizes about plumbing, they are now an expert plumber. If a philosopher philosophizes about cancer, they're now an expert in treating cancer. You see the problem there? Philosophizing about something is not the same as being an expert in it.

You are being surprisingly soft headed when I usually see you as a deeper thinker. I'm having trouble understanding how you're missing my position.

Let me state it very simply.

I am discussing the trans ideology debate/controversy going on currently globally. This debate contains many philosophical underpinnings, biases and positions on both sides. Philosophical biases often close minds or point minds in a particular direction on issues even though the person who holds them often doesn't realize this or doesn't care if they do. Philosophy is an inescapable part of the debate if you are paying attention closely as I am. I assumed you knew that but maybe you don't. Or maybe you want to reduce it to a medical argument only, which is impossible if you're taking the issue seriously.

Kathleen stock has a PhD in philosophy and she makes it her job to point out some of the philosophical problems in the transgender ideology movement.

If you think that isn't relevant then I don't respect your thinking on this position and can't take you seriously.

I also want to point out once again that you are arguing against videos you haven't even watched and people you haven't even listened to and that sounds a lot like the right wingers on this site to me.

One of the main criticisms of the states on this issue is that it has become a hard right left issue and it's political and that both sides seem unable to think clearly in any way because of it.

I have found both of these women to be transcending that bias and pettiness and to be thinking about the issue in a much more comprehensive way than anywhere else I've ever heard it discussed. There is something in their thinking to piss off both sides of extremists and ideologues. I think you would find every bit of the material from both of these women that is available on YouTube. Incredibly enlightening. It really changes and raises the discourse completely in my opinion.


I've read many pages of the debate going on here on sherdog with this topic and it is profoundly disappointing the level of discourse at play on both sides.

 

[kflo]

wonderful. here are three that have had a profound impact on me. stock is a phd philosopher and a lesbian who was violently chased out of her tenured position for sharing the ideas she shares in the first link. in fact you can hear what sounds like the roar of a sports event outside and that's what i thought it was while listening but it was actually people outside protesting her talk at the oxford union.

joyce has a phd in mathematics and she uses that kind of reasoning to explicate why the transgender movement is a faith based movement and a linguistic movement primarily. each one of these women comes at the issue from a VERY different place and i have found each of them to be profound thinkers the more ive considered what they say.

the last link i just stumbled across and its a debate between stock and a stranswoman with a phd in literature. ive scoured the net to find such debates and they are very few and far between and while the activists lie about why that is it turn out that the trans-activists WONT debate on principle. the reasons behind their refusal are quite interesting frankly. ultimately its because they have no case based on reason.

but it should be noted that both of these woman are totally in favor of trans laws that protect trasn people from being excluded in the workplace and socially from ridicule or harm. neither person is against those basic kinds of courtesies fyi.

finally there are many more of these from both women and ive listened to all of them and every single one gets into details missed in the ones ive linked and each of them have value of their own. i figure if you are impressed with their logic and reasoning then you will take the time to listen to more of them.

you guys dont know me but if i catch even a small hint of right wing bigotry or hatred off of a speaker i discount them and seek out better human beings and sources. neither of these women hate trans people on any level and both are left or center left.

@kflo

I did get through about 20 minutes of the 2nd video (I just started with that one). It’s a slog of an interview but I had some patience. I didn’t hear anything in there other than her personal opinions. I’d be interested in your summary of what you take away from her positions that is helpful towards the discussion. She is entitled to her opinion (as @panamaican notes) and she is educated and well spoken but I am not sure what the main takeaway is yet.

 

[panamaican]

You are being surprisingly soft headed when I usually see you as a deeper thinker. I'm having trouble understanding how you're missing my position.

Let me state it very simply.

I am discussing the trans ideology debate/controversy going on currently globally. This debate contains many philosophical underpinnings, biases and positions on both sides. Philosophical biases often close minds or point minds in a particular direction on issues even though the person who holds them often doesn't realize this or doesn't care if they do. Philosophy is an inescapable part of the debate if you are paying attention closely as I am. I assumed you knew that but maybe you don't. Or maybe you want to reduce it to a medical argument only, which is impossible if you're taking the issue seriously.

Kathleen stock has a PhD in philosophy and she makes it her job to point out some of the philosophical problems in the transgender ideology movement.

If you think that isn't relevant then I don't respect your thinking on this position and can't take you seriously.

I also want to point out once again that you are arguing against videos you haven't even watched and people you haven't even listened to and that sounds a lot like the right wingers on this site to me.

One of the main criticisms of the states on this issue is that it has become a hard right left issue and it's political and that both sides seem unable to think clearly in any way because of it.

I have found both of these women to be transcending that bias and pettiness and to be thinking about the issue in a much more comprehensive way than anywhere else I've ever heard it discussed. There is something in their thinking to piss off both sides of extremists and ideologues. I think you would find every bit of the material from both of these women that is available on YouTube. Incredibly enlightening. It really changes and raises the discourse completely in my opinion.


I've read many pages of the debate going on here on sherdog with this topic and it is profoundly disappointing the level of discourse at play on both sides.

Everything has philosophical underpinnings. That's a position that doesn't convey expertise.

Trans issues are medical and mental health issues. Is it a legitimate medical condition and treatment or a mental health problem. Everything else is about people's feelings about trans, not about transexuality itself.

And show me where I've argued for or against anything in those videos.

 

[panamaican]

I did get through about 20 minutes of the 2nd video (I just started with that one). It’s a slog of an interview but I had some patience. I didn’t hear anything in there other than her personal opinions. I’d be interested in your summary of what you take away from her positions that is helpful towards the discussion. She is entitled to her opinion (as @panamaican notes) and she is educated and well spoken but I am not sure what the main takeaway is yet.

The problem with the whole thing is that he's calling every random Tom, Dick, and Harry an expert just because they have an informed opinion.

By his reasoning, I'm an expert on transsexuality because transsexuality is impacted by the law. And since I'm a well trained, smart lawyer, who has informed opinions on the intersection of law and transsexuality, I'm now an expert on trans ideology. It's a complete misunderstanding of what an "expert" is.

 

[terrapin]

Everything has philosophical underpinnings. That's a position that doesn't convey expertise.

Trans issues are medical and mental health issues. Is it a legitimate medical condition and treatment or a mental health problem. Everything else is about people's feelings about trans, not about transexuality itself.

And show me where I've argued for or against anything in those videos.

You're not worthy of a discussion frankly.

Have a good day my friend.

 

[terrapin]

I did get through about 20 minutes of the 2nd video (I just started with that one). It’s a slog of an interview but I had some patience. I didn’t hear anything in there other than her personal opinions. I’d be interested in your summary of what you take away from her positions that is helpful towards the discussion. She is entitled to her opinion (as @panamaican notes) and she is educated and well spoken but I am not sure what the main takeaway is yet.

I'm not going to defend the videos or breaking them down for anybody because I really don't care that much.

One poster listened to the full Kathleen stock video and found it very worthwhile. But if you don't want to watch the videos and listen to the information, we can't discuss.

I'm not here to change people's minds. I'm here to help people become more informed if that's what they really want to do. I can tell you though that the gravity of these two women absolutely warrants listening to them.

 

[panamaican]

You're not worthy of a discussion frankly.

Have a good day my friend.

You too.

 

[jamel]

She puts out on the first date

 

[terrapin]

@terrapin

I watched the first video and I was waiting until I had properly digested it and perhaps watched it again before commenting.

Kathleen Stock isn't an expert but she's an intelligent, highly educated lesbian feminist who is orders of magnitude more informed on this subject than prominent gender critical activists like Matt Walsh.

If your point was that she isn't a sociologist and therefore not expert in human interactions, then I agree, however I appreciate her excellent expression of gender critical positions. It's incredibly easy to dismiss Walsh because he's an ignorant bigot and a monster, but the bar is much higher with someone like Stock.

I agree with some of her positions. Trans women in sport is a difficult issue, and I don't support it yet. Trans women in women's restrooms is obviously problematic and while I think the danger of (what is basically) desegregation is over-stated I don't think society is anywhere near ready for it.

At the same time Stock is repeating gender critical lies like how blockers result in lowered future success of orgasm, and I think she's smart enough to know this is what she's doing.

People like Stock will have increased credibility due to her status as a lesbian and a feminist and her education but these cohorts have obvious conflicts with the trans community, and it's important to consider them. That said, if there's going to be a discussion about trans rights, it isn't going to be with the Matt Walshes and Jordan Petersons of the world, it's going to need to be with the Kathleen Stocks.

One last thing I wanted to tell you is that the level of discourse is much higher in Europe than it is here in the states on this topic. It is definitely polarized there but it's less polarized. Both of these women agree that it's less polarized because there isn't a Christian right-wing movement tied to a specific political party that they have to contend with shifting the debate into crazy town. Over here the left can sometimes knee jerk react to this discussion as if it's a right vs left thing. It just isn't framed like that over there nearly as much leading to better conversations.

I thought that made a lot of sense when they said it and have really appreciated the level of discourse coming out of Europe, even panels with many different people on them are so much more sane and nuanced and informed. It is really unbelievable.

 

[terrapin]

I did get through about 20 minutes of the 2nd video (I just started with that one). It’s a slog of an interview but I had some patience. I didn’t hear anything in there other than her personal opinions. I’d be interested in your summary of what you take away from her positions that is helpful towards the discussion. She is entitled to her opinion (as @panamaican notes) and she is educated and well spoken but I am not sure what the main takeaway is yet.

You would really have to listen to the whole video she gets into a whole bunch of data. It's pretty dense even sometimes. And remember I told you there are several interviews with her on YouTube and they get into different data sets. If you really care about this issue, I really want to encourage you to listen. Even if you disagree with everything she says you will still come out with a much better understanding of what is going on. I'm certain of it.

The first video is a better place to start though. This is because it is a respectful debate where both sides get to make points and answer one another and then the floor is open for questions afterwards and it's just really good.

Kathleen stock has a PhD in philosophy and is a lesbian and is a left-leaning person. That alone makes me interested in her positions, since a ton of the transgender movements arguments are philosophical in nature and they need to be analyzed philosophically. Some of that happens in this debate and a lot more of it in other talks by Kathleen stock.

We don't know each other very well, but I can tell you that Kathleen stock is an ally to the left and not an enemy of the left.

It's also informative because the roaring that you hear outside are people protesting against her. Some with threats of violence for her views claiming she's a bigot and a trans person hater and then when you listen to her positions, you realize that's absolutely not true and no sane person could possibly believe it. Then you realize these people aren't even willing to listen to her views before coming against her, which is the definition of closed minded and intellectually immature.

 

[Crawler89]

Still got zero idea how this went from boebert to trannies...insane

 

[Protectandserve]

Still got zero idea how this went from boebert to trannies...insane

Seriously, I thought we were discussing how she looked in the dress…

 

[Source]

Still got zero idea how this went from boebert to trannies...insane

Nearly every discussion here devolves into that now. It’s their new p and g response. In another thread I called Joe Biden a crook and that Trump and his followers are traitors. I was met with multiple responses that I support child castration. The right wing chuds here are completely incapable of holding anyone they deem their team or themselves accountable.

 

[Crawler89]

Nearly every discussion here devolves into that now. It’s their new p and g response. In another thread I called Joe Biden a crook and that Trump and his followers are traitors. I was met with multiple responses that I support child castration. The right wing chuds here are completely incapable of holding anyone they deem their team or themselves accountable.

I just don't/cant understand the logic and jumps that need to be made to get there.
Like this thread. literally about a hetrosexual woman being a pig in public, some how has turned into talking about chicks with dicks.

Im fairly certain they would take a thread about jennifer lopez having a sex tape, and turn it into tranny porn

 

[Loiosh]

I just don't/cant understand the logic and jumps that need to be made to get there.
Like this thread. literally about a hetrosexual woman being a pig in public, some how has turned into talking about chicks with dicks.

Im fairly certain they would take a thread about jennifer lopez having a sex tape, and turn it into tranny porn

This and grooming are what they're programmed to say, they're loyal but unsophisticated soldiers.

The funniest thing in the GOP midterm primaries was the candidates calling each other groomers. They had no idea how to attack one another on any meaningful issues.

 

[PainIsLIfe]

The MSM outlets all reported that it was over vaping, but they did her a favor by burying the lede.

You can clearly see them groping each other in the same footage.

Also, this was a musical version of Beetlejuice. There were a bunch of kids there.

Spoiler: NGL

She's batshit crazy, but that's a serious rack on her.

ETA You can't make this shit up.

I don't understand bringing up the drag shows...I'm assuming he doesn't have kids in the bar.

 

[Crawler89]

This and grooming are what they're programmed to say, they're loyal but unsophisticated soldiers.

The funniest thing in the GOP midterm primaries was the candidates calling each other groomers. They had no idea how to attack one another on any meaningful issues.

Thats the big thing with the republican party.
They know that their policies are turning away people, so they have to yell and scream, be controversial, push culture war politics to get anywhere at all now days

This is not me endorsing the dems, this is me stating the fucking obvious too before any one comes at me with "what about hunter biden" bullshit

 

[Terry Noonan]

She puts out on the first date

Hell yeah.

 

[ermac88]

She puts out on the first date

She strikes me as the kind you dont have to take out on a date.

Buy her somer McDonalds or just some cotton candy, and you're in.

 

[Crawler89]

She strikes me as the kind you dont have to take out on a date.

Buy her somer McDonalds or just some cotton candy, and you're in.

Just wave your dick around at her like her ex husband did