Social Lauren Boebert theater pocket pool and transexual discussion

[ShadowRun]

 

[Loiosh]

Didn't know what this had to do with this thread and then Googled her and found this:

 

[Crawler89]

Didn't know what this had to do with this thread and then Googled her and found this:

well, time to do some research

 

[Terry Noonan]

well, time to do some research

For educational purposes ..

 

[Crawler89]

For educational purposes ..

for SCIENCE

 

[Terry Noonan]

for SCIENCE

<[analyzed}>

 

[Andy Capp]

I disagree because they have taken the time to absorb all of the data deeply. Kathleen stock has a PhD in philosophy and she believes you can argue that this is philosophical issue so she tackles it from that angle as an expert in philosophy. I think any attempt to discuss this issue without addressing the deep underlying philosophical positions held by both camps is unwarranted and irresponsible. But you have to listen to her arguments and of course you can disagree with her positions, but I'm betting you won't once you hear her.

It's the same issue as when you watch atheists and religious people debate and atheists like Dawkins make very spurious and impossible to defend philosophical statements without even realizing they are doing so. It is easy to undermine many of those arguments because they are based on philosophical fallacies. It turns out there is a ton of crossover between fields and it's nearly impossible to not have philosophical underpinnings of which you are unaware untill they are pointed out.

This is why the philosophy of science has become such an important issue on this front and has received so much attention lately by many modern thinkers pointing out mostly unconscious biases on the part of many scientists. These biases make reasoned thinking difficult to spot and also break possible chains of logic that violate these biases.

It is very foolish to think that philosophy is not directly relevant to the trams debate frankly but you would have to watch the videos in order to see the positions and why they matter.

The other woman whose name escapes me now has done a massive amount of research and from a very different angle and is pointing out that much of the trans ideology is faith based and doesn't add up if you just follow the logic. She seems particularly adept at pointing out many the logical fallacies within the trans gender movement.

Both of these women are deep thinkers, highly intelligent and point out seriouse problems with trans gender activism, with the medical approach to diagnosing and treating it etc. The second woman is particularly good at pointing out the problems with diagnosis and treatments in particular.


I don't know a single right wing commentator who is making a public living off of speaking about transgender ideologies. And I have never listened to a single right-wing thinker because I don't respect anybody if I can catch even a little bit of bigotry or hatred in them. But these two women are of a completely different kind and are easy to respect intellectually and in the way that they use logic and reason and they are both absolutely worth listening to and I think it would be who view to listen to the both of them and not just these videos. But a few more because these were just examples they don't cover all of the material.

It is also worth noting that I have done my very best to find people who debunk them just to see the other side and I have found some of that and they are filled with lies and straw manning and almost never address their actual positions and I think that is very very telling..... It seems to be a hallmark of the trans movement to accuse people of bigotry rather than to discuss ideas in fact.

The best I found was a woman scholar whose name is slipping my mind right now. But I listened to 2 hours of her talk in front of a scholarly panel and essentially her argument came down to the fact that she believes reality is formed by language and that if we are to shift the language around men and women and get rid of those distinctions, it will somehow change physical reality and make those distinctions dissipate over time.

Ultimately, I do not believe that she believes there is a physical world that isn't constructed by language and mind. And this woman seems to be a prominent thinker and source of transgender ideology today.

Are any of the people you quoted medical doctors?

 

[Rob Battisti]

I guess the question is why is it tolerated?

If we can’t complain about trannies, wtf are we even here for? Actual politics?

@Lead would be too busy having high level discussions at that point.

 

[Deleted member 577981]

Are any of the people you quoted medical doctors?

What has that got to do with an issue that includes philosophical premises, psychological states, sociological perspectives, legal questions and other such issues along with medical issues?

You guys seem to want to have a kindergarten level discussion for some reason and I really cannot understand it at all.

The level of discourse from some of you is reduced to idiocy I think.

Do you know of any other area of discussion where education is not important because I sure don't?

 

[Andy Capp]

What has that got to do with an issue that includes philosophical premises, psychological states, sociological perspectives, legal questions and other such issues along with medical issues?

You guys seem to want to have a kindergarten level discussion for some reason and I really cannot understand it at all.

The level of discourse from some of you is reduced to idiocy I think.

Do you know of any other area of discussion where education is not important because I sure don't?

So, that would be a no then. Got it. No further questions.

 

[Deleted member 577981]

So, that would be a no then. Got it. No further questions.

Seeing as how you've not watched any of the videos you are clearly not privy to the multi-faceted arena around this issue. The fact that you have no further questions is a big part of the problem.

Not everything can be dumbed down to your level frankly, and it amazes me that otherwise, seemingly intelligent people think this issue can be reduced to a medical one....

It just goes to show that most people that have strong opinions on this issue haven't done even the smallest bit of research into it.

That's just one of the issues delved into in these videos concerning American thoughts on the matter. It seems that here tribal politics has taken over critical thinking on both sides of the issue. Some of this is because Europe doesn't have a super right wing religious group to contend with and a left knee jerk reacting because of that. Nobody is looking to the United States for clear thinking on this matter and your post demonstrates why.

You can't even have an intelligent discussion on it or be bothered to look into nuances around the topic.

 

[panamaican]

Seeing as how you've not watched any of the videos you are clearly not privy to the multi-faceted arena around this issue. The fact that you have no further questions is a big part of the problem.

Not everything can be dumbed down to your level frankly, and it amazes me that otherwise, seemingly intelligent people think this issue can be reduced to one thing....

It just goes to show that most people that have strong opinions on this issue haven't done even the smallest bit of research into it.

That's just one of the issues delved into in these videos concerning American thoughts on the matter. It seems that here tribal politics has taken over critical thinking on both sides of the issue. Some of this is because Europe doesn't have a super right wing religious group to contend with and a left knee jerk reacting because of that. Nobody is looking to the United States for clear thinking on this matter and your post demonstrates why.

You can't even have an intelligent discussion on it or be bothered to look into nuances around the topic.

Are you still insisting that anyone who philosophizes about a subject becomes a subject matter expert? And ignoring the difference between an expert and an informed opinion?

 

[Deleted member 577981]

Are you still insisting that anyone who philosophizes about a subject becomes a subject matter expert? And ignoring the difference between an expert and an informed opinion?

No that's a strawman you guys are using based upon the assumption that there are no other relevant issues besides medical to consider which is hilarious and ignorant.

Philosophical statements and assumptions are an essential part of much of this subject and are held by all parties involved.

Mathematical considerations become profoundly important when crunching all of the statistical data relevant to the subject.

But all of this is just a smoke screen because you don't want to address what's in the videos and that's fine. But you're all being very petty and stupid about.

Just don't watch them.

 

[cincymma79]

Didn't know what this had to do with this thread and then Googled her and found this:

I think we can defer to a dick expert on the topic

 

[kflo]

You would really have to listen to the whole video she gets into a whole bunch of data. It's pretty dense even sometimes. And remember I told you there are several interviews with her on YouTube and they get into different data sets. If you really care about this issue, I really want to encourage you to listen. Even if you disagree with everything she says you will still come out with a much better understanding of what is going on. I'm certain of it.

The first video is a better place to start though. This is because it is a respectful debate where both sides get to make points and answer one another and then the floor is open for questions afterwards and it's just really good.

Kathleen stock has a PhD in philosophy and is a lesbian and is a left-leaning person. That alone makes me interested in her positions, since a ton of the transgender movements arguments are philosophical in nature and they need to be analyzed philosophically. Some of that happens in this debate and a lot more of it in other talks by Kathleen stock.

We don't know each other very well, but I can tell you that Kathleen stock is an ally to the left and not an enemy of the left.

It's also informative because the roaring that you hear outside are people protesting against her. Some with threats of violence for her views claiming she's a bigot and a trans person hater and then when you listen to her positions, you realize that's absolutely not true and no sane person could possibly believe it. Then you realize these people aren't even willing to listen to her views before coming against her, which is the definition of closed minded and intellectually immature.

Ok, listened to first 22 minutes of the stock interview. That’s 40+ minutes invested so far in the clips you linked. So you can’t say I’m not investing some time.

I respect her positions that I’ve heard, but in those 22 minutes she’s really coming at it from a “woman’s spaces” standpoint. So far. And it’s mostly her opinions about what’s the best solution, from a cis woman’s perspective (which she acknowledged). But it’s just her (informed) opinion.

Again, if you start with respect for all people, you at least get a respectful dialogue. Too many start with zero respect for trans people and don’t give a shit about their experience in any way. Some are just cruel.

 

[Belaya Smert]

for SCIENCE

*The Science

 

[Deleted member 577981]

Delete

 

[Deleted member 577981]

Ok, listened to first 22 minutes of the stock interview. That’s 40+ minutes invested so far in the clips you linked. So you can’t say I’m not investing some time.

I respect her positions that I’ve heard, but in those 22 minutes she’s really coming at it from a “woman’s spaces” standpoint. So far. And it’s mostly her opinions about what’s the best solution, from a cis woman’s perspective (which she acknowledged). But it’s just her (informed) opinion.

Again, if you start with respect for all people, you at least get a respectful dialogue. Too many start with zero respect for trans people and don’t give a shit about their experience in any way. Some are just cruel.

I agree with the cruelty part and that is why I suggested both of these women because there is no way either of them has a shadow of cruelty in their positions and in listening to them I find they have the most well-reasoned positions of either side of the debate and by a long shot.

 

[Deleted member 577981]

Ok, listened to first 22 minutes of the stock interview. That’s 40+ minutes invested so far in the clips you linked. So you can’t say I’m not investing some time.

I respect her positions that I’ve heard, but in those 22 minutes she’s really coming at it from a “woman’s spaces” standpoint. So far. And it’s mostly her opinions about what’s the best solution, from a cis woman’s perspective (which she acknowledged). But it’s just her (informed) opinion.

Again, if you start with respect for all people, you at least get a respectful dialogue. Too many start with zero respect for trans people and don’t give a shit about their experience in any way. Some are just cruel.

Why is coming from a women's spaces a problem for you just out of curiosity? Not that this in any way encompasses her thought.
I think people have misunderstood my position because they were all unwilling to even look at the videos.

None of these women want to deny trans people basic human rights on any level that's not even the discussion they are having...

The discussion in the states is so binary and so stupid that it's convinced people there aren't a thousand points of nuance to discuss intelligently and respectfully.

 

[Andy Capp]

Why is coming from a women's spaces a problem for you just out of curiosity? Not that this in any way encompasses her thought.
I think people have misunderstood my position because they were all unwilling to even look at the videos.

None of these women want to deny trans people basic human rights on any level that's not even the discussion they are having...

The discussion in the states is so binary and so stupid that it's convinced people there aren't a thousand points of nuance to discuss intelligently and respectfully.

When you open the discussion from the point of view that merely existing is an ideology you aren't looking for nuanced discussion. "Trans ideology" is dehumanizing and stupid.