Social Lauren Boebert theater pocket pool and transexual discussion

The amount of days and months for the virtue signaling/ over celebration is going to confuse people in the future who study history.


 
ColemanwastheGOAT said:
Nah he's referring to all the comments on twitter (the posts in OP are from twitter) who are all making the same point @panamaican did about how if you don't like trans people you shouldn't like adults kissing in public.

So yeah it was the left bringing up trannies as usual.

Try again.
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Whoa...when did I make that point? My point was that if you insist on public decency as your argument against trans people, you should certainly apply public decency to a woman groping her date and getting felt up in front of kids.

Don't misrepresent my position.
 
terrapin said:
No that's a strawman you guys are using based upon the assumption that there are no other relevant issues besides medical to consider which is hilarious and ignorant.

Philosophical statements and assumptions are an essential part of much of this subject and are held by all parties involved.

Mathematical considerations become profoundly important when crunching all of the statistical data relevant to the subject.

But all of this is just a smoke screen because you don't want to address what's in the videos and that's fine. But you're all being very petty and stupid about.

Just don't watch them.
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No, it's not a strawman. Someone asked you for experts. You provided those videos. I asked you why those people should be considered experts.

A strawman attempts to refute a different argument than the one presented. The argument presented was "Show me an expert opinion". Central to that argument is that the opinion come from an expert. Establishing why the someone is an "expert" and not just a regular informed opinion is essential before bothering to debate the expert opinion itself.

It's like saying "Show me a plumber who does that?" And the response is a video from an electrician giving his opinion on the plumbing issue.

No one's being petty. You simply don't want to find an actual expert opinion because you like these non-experts perspective. But I haven't once argued with you about what they said. I'm just waiting for an actual expert.
 
panamaican said:
No, it's not a strawman. Someone asked you for experts. You provided those videos. I asked you why those people should be considered experts.

A strawman attempts to refute a different argument than the one presented. The argument presented was "Show me an expert opinion". Central to that argument is that the opinion come from an expert. Establishing why the someone is an "expert" and not just a regular informed opinion is essential before bothering to debate the expert opinion itself.

It's like saying "Show me a plumber who does that?" And the response is a video from an electrician giving his opinion on the plumbing issue.

No one's being petty. You simply don't want to find an actual expert opinion because you like these non-experts perspective. But I haven't once argued with you about what they said. I'm just waiting for an actual expert.
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You have a very narrow minded view of the issue and are uneducated in it... profoundly in my opinion.

That's why you can't see why a PhD in philosophy would have something to say about the philosophical underpinnings of the movement.

And I suppose that's why you don't think someone who can crunch the numbers as a mathematician has anything to say about the statistics.

You have repeatedly tried to pretend this is only a medical issue and that's because you have such a narrow-mind. That's all you consider relevant to the topic.

You're also just pretending to be hung up on my use of the word experts so you don't have to engage the ideas.

It's pathetic and I'm embarrassed for you and you have been beneath that dignity of conversation on this topic.

But also if that's your perspective, how about not wasting my time anymore and just not discussing it with me?
 
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kflo said:
Sorry don’t appeal to some “we”. You don’t.

you want a discussion on your own terms. You reject information or positions that don’t align with yours. You call trans women dudes and he.

when your friends come over do you warn your wife that violent men will be invading your house soon? Are you scared when you use the restroom sharing it with violent men? Are we all just violent animals?

Again you want to discuss the issue seriously? Like I’ve said, I have 2 teenage daughters and a wife. This “invasion” isn’t happening. I’ve never heard of a single incident, no less an invasion. But your “honest” dialogue insists violent “men” are invading. It’s nonsense. As is you representing the bathroom as some private social club.

If you want to really discuss, as you claim to, do so without the intentional language meant to demonize individuals who just want to use the bathroom and leave. You want to rebuild cities based on fear, not based on what’s actually happening or what’s in peoples best interest. And if you want to tell women and girls they are being invaded by violent men, that’s really not a good faith starting point.

would you criminalize a trans woman using the woman’s room?
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My use of violent men is meant to do the opposite of what you claim. It is meant to ensure that we are not talking about trans people specifically. . We are just talking about men. it is men who commit violence against women and it is the men who commit violence against women that cause the need for separate spaces.


A man who decides they are a woman does not automatically take themselves out of the gene pool of men who commit violence against women. It's not about trans... it's about men. And no sane person would dream of accusing a specific man of being violent against women without reason. It's just a statistical fact that men are.

Yes, women still need to be protected from men. They still need private spaces to undress in, to have miscarriages in, use the restroom etc. This whole notion that we should just outgrow that defies logic and reason.

The only reason we're even stuffing this issue onto women is because men will commit violence against the men who transition! So male violence is the problem and our insane solution is to hoist that upon women. It really makes no sense when you think about it.

I believe third spaces are the answer including gender neutral single use bathrooms everywhere there are single use bathrooms and employee restrooms being opened up to trans people and extra spaces being built through taxpayer money. Same basic approach goes for shelters, prisons, etc.


It's not that I don't want them to have a place to go... i do but it's not in the women's restroom.

@kflo since you brought up the trans person who is a man competing against women in sports, why don't you comment on the fact that he called women weak for not wanting to compete against him and fragile? White cis woman fragility he said!!!

How do you feel about his language towards women while he dwarfs them and is obviously a hugely built person?

I feel like that's something only a man would say about a different gender. I don't think that is language that would come out of a woman's mouth about other women.

@kflo

It's time for you to address the question I asked you. Do you support this man's assertion that it is racism and white women's fragility and weakness that makes them not want to compete against him?

Do you think he's being kind or loving or even genuine or honest because it looks a lot like narcissism to me?

Why don't you address each thing he said specifically and tell me if you think he is right?
 
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panamaican said:
Uhm, the post is about moral decency. Trans people are just the example used to make the point.
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Right. You brought up trans people. And in the OP if you click the twitter links, all the comments are liberals bringing up trans people.

It's what you guys do. You bring up trans people and then go 'whoa why are conservatives so obsessed with trans people?!'
 
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terrapin said:
My use of violent men is meant to do the opposite of what you claim. It is meant to ensure that we are not talking about trans people specifically. . We are just talking about men. it is men who commit violence against women and it is the men who commit violence against women that cause the need for separate spaces.


A man who decides they are a woman does not automatically take themselves out of the gene pool of men who commit violence against women. It's not about trans... it's about men. And no sane person would dream of accusing a specific man of being violent against women without reason. It's just a statistical fact that men are.

Yes, women still need to be protected from men. They still need private spaces to undress in, to have miscarriages in and then use the restroom etc. This whole notion that we should just outgrow that defies logic and reason.

The only reason we're even stuffing this issue onto women is because men will commit violence against the men who transition! So male violence is the problem and our insane solution is to hoist that upon women. It really makes no sense when you think about it.

I believe third spaces are the answer including gender neutral single use bathrooms everywhere there are single use bathrooms and employee restrooms being opened up to trans people and extra spaces being built through taxpayer money. Same basic approach goes for shelters, prisons, etc.


It's not that I don't want them to have a place to go... i do but it's not in the women's restroom.
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it's absolutely about trans. they are trans women, and you're insisting that they are just men, calling them dudes and he, and insisting they need to be separated and given a 3rd space for trans people (men and women), irrespective of any information about whether they are more of a threat, or more at risk, etc. or what they want. irrespective of how things are working now.

your use of "violent men invading women's spaces" is not language someone interested in trans people's experience would use. it's not even language that reflects what is happening. the use of dude and he in reference to a trans woman is not language someone interested in trans people would use.

i asked you a question - do you want to criminalize trans women using women's spaces? a separate question is where do you want trans men? what if they prefer not to use gender neutral bathrooms, but the bathroom they feel most comfortable. what then?

they've BEEN going to the women's restroom.
 
kflo said:
it's absolutely about trans. they are trans women, and you're insisting that they are just men, calling them dudes and he, and insisting they need to be separated and given a 3rd space for trans people (men and women), irrespective of any information about whether they are more of a threat, or more at risk, etc. or what they want. irrespective of how things are working now.

your use of "violent men invading women's spaces" is not language someone interested in trans people's experience would use. it's not even language that reflects what is happening. the use of dude and he in reference to a trans woman is not language someone interested in trans people would use.

i asked you a question - do you want to criminalize trans women using women's spaces? a separate question is where do you want trans men? what if they prefer not to use gender neutral bathrooms, but the bathroom they feel most comfortable. what then?

they've BEEN going to the women's restroom.
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You need to read more carefully because I've answered those questions already. You are clearly just skimming my post instead of addressing my positions.

In fact, at least 50% of what I write in response to your positions doesn't get replied to. You seem to be unable to discuss things in good faith on this level.

I'm calling them man because they are men and they are not women and they can never be women. It is not possible and I do not accept that fiction and I do believe that it is a fiction. They have every right to live a fiction but their rights end at my mind. Their position comes from a philosophical perspective that is faulty. They are men.

Now if I interact with an individual who is a trans person, I would never ever misgender them in any way. I would probably not use their preferred pronouns, but I would always find a way to use their name in language when discussing them or speaking to them.

If the man passes as a woman, then there is no way to enforce them not using women's restrooms. In the case of a person actually passing, all we have are the social norms that need to be upheld.

To the question of whether or not they want to use third spaces, I just can't possibly care about that frankly... I think it is extremely generous to want to provide third spaces... to genuinely want to give a small percentage of people that option is loving and if that's not good enough for them then I'm afraid they're going to have to accept that you don't get everything you want out of life.

But I really doubt most of them would care. I think they would all be grateful just to have a place to take a piss.

That old tired argument that they've already been using bathrooms just doesn't fly. The uptick of people identifying as another sex has grown dramatically so new problems of scale are arising that have never had to be addressed before.

I am also against laws that make it easier and easier to legally change your sex without surgery or counseling or really any proof of a genuine commitment to being a trans person. This kind of thing that gives access to women's spaces must be more than a fad more than a passing whim and more than an opportunity for a sexual predator to use under the guise of being a trans person. But in either case, I am against trans people using the restroom of their choice.

Scotland has passed self ID, the most progressive form of law on this topic on the planet. Right now all you have to do in Scotland is just say you're now a woman and you are absolutely at that moment's legally a woman. You don't have to dress different. You don't have to do anything different.

That's probably the best example of why we have to be careful about making these laws too lacks.

I would like to see it a lot more difficult to transition requiring counseling and a counselors signature attesting to the fact that they believe the person is actually genuine and really truly believes they are the opposite sex.

And then the legal designation of that person should not be man or woman. It should be trans man or trans woman so that people can know the truth about what they are and not just their belief about who they are.
 
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Since you brought up the trans person who is a man competing against women in sports, why don't you comment on the fact that he called women weak for not wanting to compete against him and fragile? White cis woman fragility he said!!!

How do you feel about his language towards women while he dwarfs them and is obviously a hugely built person?

I feel like that's something only a man would say about a different gender. I don't think that is language that would come out of a woman's mouth about other women.

@kflo

It's time for you to address the question I asked you. Do you support this man's assertion that it is racism and white women's fragility and weakness that makes them not want to compete against him?

Do you think he's being kind or loving or even genuine or honest because it looks a lot like narcissism to me?

Why don't you address each thing he said specifically and tell me if you think he is right?

This man represents a large component of the trans activist movement. They believe things this crazy. I'm just wondering if you do too or if you could find anything here to criticize?

 
ColemanwastheGOAT said:
Right. You brought up trans people. And in the OP if you click the twitter links, all the comments are liberals bringing up trans people.

It's what you guys do. You bring up trans people and then go 'whoa why sre conservatives so obsessed with trans people?!'
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It's not what I wrote. Are you arguing with my written words or some fictional person who is an amalgamation of various internet opinions?
 
deadshot138 said:
What the fuck is 2 spirit <Huh2>
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I believe in the Native community it's been around for a while, but didn't have much, if anything to do with LGBT. LGBT threw it in their blender, and now it means a transgender Native person.
 
terrapin said:
You need to read more carefully because I've answered those questions already. You are clearly just skimming my post instead of addressing my positions.

In fact, at least 50% of what I write in response to your positions doesn't get replied to. You seem to be unable to discuss things in good faith on this level.

I'm calling them man because they are men and they are not women and they can never be women. It is not possible and I do not accept that fiction and I do believe that it is a fiction. They have every right to live a fiction but their rights end at my mind. Their position comes from a philosophical perspective that is faulty. They are men.

Now if I interact with an individual who is a trans person, I would never ever misgender them in any way. I would probably not use their preferred pronouns, but I would always find a way to use their name in language when discussing them or speaking to them.

If the man passes as a woman, then there is no way to enforce them not using women's restrooms. In the case of a person actually passing, all we have are the social norms that need to be upheld.
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and if someone is possibly a man, then? call the cops?

To the question of whether or not they want to use third spaces, I just can't possibly care about that frankly... I think it is extremely generous to want to provide third spaces... to genuinely want to give a small percentage of people that option is loving and if that's not good enough for them then I'm afraid they're going to have to accept that you don't get everything you want out of life.

But I really doubt most of them would care. I think they would all be grateful just to have a place to take a piss.
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they have a place to take a piss now. you think it's "loving" (lol!) to create a space they didn't ask for, kick them out of the space they have been in and prefer?

That old tired argument that they've already been using bathrooms just doesn't fly. The uptick of people identifying as another sex has grown dramatically so new problems of scale are arising that have never had to be addressed before.
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evidence of the "problems of scale"? again, have you seen it personally? have people close to you had negative experiences?

I am also against laws that make it easier and easier to legally change your sex without surgery or counseling or really any proof of a genuine commitment to being a trans person. This kind of thing that gives access to women's spaces must be more than a fad more than a passing whim and more than an opportunity for a sexual predator to use under the guise of being a trans person. But in either case, I am against trans people using the restroom of their choice.
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are you suggesting people change their gender on their id to get access to bathrooms they don't need id for? is this serious?

Scotland has passed self ID, the most progressive form of law on this topic on the planet. Right now all you have to do in Scotland is just say you're now a woman and you are absolutely at that moment's legally a woman. You don't have to dress different. You don't have to do anything different.
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do they need to show id to get into the bathroom?

That's probably the best example of why we have to be careful about making these laws to lacks. I would like to see it a lot more difficult to transition requiring counseling and a councelorsr signature attesting to the fact that they believe the person is actually genuine and really truly believes they are the opposite sex.

And then the legal designation of that person should not be man or woman. It should be trans man or trans woman so that people can know the truth about what they are and not just their belief about who they are.
Click to expand...

what people need to know the biological sex of someone and why? should it include detailed information on where they are in a transition journey? when is it relevant? entering a restroom?
 
kflo said:
and if someone is possibly a man, then? call the cops?


they have a place to take a piss now. you think it's "loving" (lol!) to create a space they didn't ask for, kick them out of the space they have been in and prefer?

evidence of the "problems of scale"? again, have you seen it personally? have people close to you had negative experiences?

are you suggesting people change their gender on their id to get access to bathrooms they don't need id for? is this serious?

do they need to show id to get into the bathroom?



what people need to know the biological sex of someone and why? should it include detailed information on where they are in a transition journey? when is it relevant? entering a restroom?
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Answer the questions I asked you. I'm done allowing you to list question after question while I patiently answer them and don't respond to mine even while you only skimy responses.

Also, you're reading comprehension is pretty terrible and some of these questions are irrelevant to what I actually wrote. You're clearly just skimming what I say.
 
Super_Nintendo said:
pan, why tf was i singled out and carded for derailment by talking about trans stuff when it was started by others, continued by everyone, and even continued by you and others right now??

a mod even went back and forth with me on it
https://forums.sherdog.com/threads/...ual-discussion.4307441/page-18#post-172022272

dude, what kind moderation is this?
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I was banned from a thread permanently once just for bringing up a certain subject that was totally on topic. Then after people discussed it for three or four pages I was banned from the topic.

It was hilarious and of course the mod couldn't answer and wouldn't discuss it with me.
 
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