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Crime Las Vegas Mass Shooting

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Well, again, you're posting outright false claims. The Amendment's drafting history is specifically discussed in depth and cited in Scalia's holding

Anyways

What was the issue that turned the case and what reasoning did Scalia use to arrive at his holding?

Imma grab dinner so you can take some time trying to answer

https://www.archives.gov/files/legislative/resources/education/bill-of-rights/images/handout-2.pdf

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; a well armed and well regulated militia being the best security of a free country: but no person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms shall be compelled to render military service in person."

False claims, this fucking guy.
 
I'm sure this has probably been said but it's a loooong thread.

I think that he might've lost big at the tables and


I'm praying that they have a quick and full recovery.
Only one will recover. The other was killed.
 
Not much. A failed lawsuit against a casino for falling over. Anecdotes that he was a bit of an arsehole (kinda goes without saying given recent events).
Thanks. I watched the 35 minute interview with his brother and he came off as someone who was on the verge of a breakdown but also extremely shady.
 
And yet even here in America you're twice as likely to be killed by lightning as you are to be involved in a mass shooting. The fascination is odd while ignoring roughly 98% of all the other gun homicides.

What ass are you pulling that out of?

http://www.businessinsider.com/gun-death-statistics-assault-mass-shootings-accidents-2017-10

bi-graphicsodds%20of%20dying%20v02.png
 
An FBI report concluded between 2000-2013, 486 Americans died from "active shooter" incidents, which works out to 37 per year. That figure makes it approx. 40% more likely to die by lighting strike. The report can be found here:

http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/201...r-incidents-in-the-u.s.-between-2000-and-2013

This is an interesting rebuttal to that report. It claims the FBI (under Obama) misrepresented the data to show higher annual increases than what occurred. This was published in the Academy of Criminal Justice Sciences newsletter.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2524731
 
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https://www.archives.gov/files/legislative/resources/education/bill-of-rights/images/handout-2.pdf

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; a well armed and well regulated militia being the best security of a free country: but no person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms shall be compelled to render military service in person."

False claims, this fucking guy.


What do you think you're proving? That the citizenry's right to keep an bear arms was seen as the best way to secure freedom throughout the country or that the draft is illegal?
 
Any of that untrue? He didn't say that. You read between the lines because that's what you really think of brown people.

"You know they owe a lot of money to your friends on Wall Street," Trump said in an interview with Fox News on Tuesday. "We're gonna have to wipe that out ... You can say goodbye to that. I don't know if it's Goldman Sachs, but whoever it is, you can wave goodbye to that."

So racist. He's clearly saying they're too lazy to pay their debt and white people have to save them.

He criticized the hurricane victims for "wanting everything to be done for them" and then later explained to them how much worse Katrina was.
 
Obviously, if they affected everyone that way they wouldn't be prescribed to anyone would they

No, they'd probably only be prescribed if they worked in the desired manner 95% of the time or more. So how likely then is it that they resulted in this violent behavior? Very, very unlikely.

Just because something answers a question we can't answer doesn't mean it is the answer, nor does it mean it's more likely to be. The chances this was a violent outburst caused by Valium is about 00000.0001%.
 
Both of those things literally happened. Pull your head out of your ass.
You're a lying liar. I could show you why but you won't accept it. Why bother. I'll settle for calling you a liar. Liar. Now post your video and tell us to read between the lines
 
An FBI report concluded between 2000-2013, 486 Americans died from "active shooter" incidents, which works out to 37 per year. That figure makes it approx. 40% more likely to die by lighting strike. The report can be found here:

http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/201...r-incidents-in-the-u.s.-between-2000-and-2013

This is an interesting rebuttal to that report. It claims the FBI (under Obama) misrepresented the data to show higher annual increases than what occurred. This was published in the Academy of Criminal Justice Sciences newsletter.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2524731

If you look here, the number killed is much higher. Every incident has a link to the news story to verify:

https://www.massshootingtracker.org/data
 
Ok buddy, let's just put this one down.

https://content.law.virginia.edu/news/2010_spr/scalia.htm





From Antonin Scalia's mouth to your ears. If I don't know what legal authority is, then he damn sure didn't. My whole point (yet again), is that he interpreted this in a favorable manner instead of considering the more recent (respectively) discussions of the founders and their intentions when ratifying the Constitution. Had he actually done so, he would have ruled the other way, as there's plenty of evidence illustrating the purpose of the militia from the actual framers.

But please, keep preaching to me about legal authority, I don't know any better, I just took Scalia's words at face value. Muh legal authority am I right?

<puh-lease75>

You can use history to explain your reasoning or push your argument. It's actually pretty common because it gives a backstory and adds context. But you can't base your ruling on a random history paper.

Scalia discussed the history, but these were the authorities he leaned on to back his ruling:

- US Constitution
- SCOTUS caselaw
Other sources were discussed but not for purposes of citing authority (because they didn't carry any or enough)


What was the issue that turned the case and what reasoning did Scalia use to arrive at his holding?

Imma grab dinner so you can take some time trying to answer

https://www.archives.gov/files/legislative/resources/education/bill-of-rights/images/handout-2.pdf

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; a well armed and well regulated militia being the best security of a free country: but no person religiously scrupulous of bearing arms shall be compelled to render military service in person."

False claims, this fucking guy.

That is a rule, not an issue or holding or reasoning. And it's not the 2nd A

The key issue had already been discussed itt: whether the 2nd A prefatory clause limits the scope of the operative clause. In other words, is the militia component a requirement for the right to own a gun. Specifically, a handgun kept at home for the purpose of self-defense

Scalia held that the prefatory clause does not limit the operative clause. A purpose for a right is not necessarily a requirement for a right.

His reasoning was based on the SCOTUS' standard of scrutiny regarding enumerated Constitutional rights. It's a very high standard. In a matter involving the right to defend one's own life, the importance of Constitutional protection is most acute. There's limits to rights, but gov cannot prohibit the right to lawfully defend yourself in your own home. This principle is supported by the language of the 2nd A, SCOTUS caselaw, common law tradition predating the US, state constitutional gun rights which preceded and followed the 2nd A, and consensus general legal interpretation of the 2nd A since it was ratified. All supported the concept of an individual's right to bear arms.

But prior history aside, it really comes down to a logical analysis of the explicit language. A stated purpose for a right does not limit that right unless it specifically says it does. This is objective logic.

And so this is why I've been grilling you on this. The theory that the US allowed states to form militias in order to suppress slave revolts may or may not be true, but in any case it doesn't matter here. This case is about individual gun rights ABSENT the militia component.

Anyways I've spent too much time on this and there's really not much left to say so I will now officially bow out. And look tbh, assuming you don't have Westlaw or LexisNexis access, you shouldn't be expected to know all of this shit. But I simply couldn't ignore your initial haymakers lol
 
What do you think you're proving? That the citizenry's right to keep an bear arms was seen as the best way to secure freedom throughout the country or that the draft is illegal?

The framers chose to write it that way as a consequence of states presumably not being able to call forth the militia to put down slave rebellions. The original wording utilized "Country", not "State". The entire discussion surrounding the 2A was as to what circumstances the militia could be called instead of whether or not keeping and bearing arms was to be enshrined for individuals.

It's been perverted into an individual right as we've disregarded their intention of not having a standing army, but to act as if it was intended to mean an individual right is a retcon born entirely out of Scalia's reasoning in DC vs Heller.

You guys are quoting the amendment without any of the historical context, much like Justice Scalia the "originalist" who couldn't find himself considering the initial intentions of the militia when broadly ruling that the 2A conferred an individual right.

<mma3>
 


Sorry, that's not clearing up for me why you're quoting a draft that wasn't enacted. It's like you think the 2nd Amendment was added to compel people into national service. Help me out here. Do you believe the 2nd places a limitation on federal government? If so, what is it prohibiting them from doing?
 
If you look here, the number killed is much higher. Every incident has a link to the news story to verify:

https://www.massshootingtracker.org/data

My numbers are from the FBI and leading criminologists posting in major publications. I assume the difference in figures is the FBI considering active shooters/mass shootings to be those occurring in public places instead of a domestic incident for instance. I might be wrong with that assumption.
 
Ok that CDC not PEW and that doesn't reference household only individual

So please provide a link verifying your claim that household gun ownership is up 8%
I already did. o_O
 
My numbers are from the FBI and leading criminologists posting in major publications.

Active shooters and mass shootings are apparently different then. Just look at the link.
 
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