Kyokushin prevalence in UK Bare Knuckle Boxing ?

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Karate is huge in the UK......So Are there any Kyokushin karatekas who compete and do well in bare knuckle boxing? The Kyokushin-kais should do very well there since most of them have cross trained boxing to fill in the gap in their sparring system.

And they have lots of bare knuckle experience, obviously (although its starting to get pussified these days)

 

[KBE6EKCTAH_CCP]

I feel like it translated poorly because the mechanics are different if you need to protect your face or not.

 

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I feel like it translated poorly because the mechanics are different if you need to protect your face or not.

Was it difficult too when fighters didnt agree to be fighting in the pocket?

 

[Tayski]

The type of people who do Kyokushin tend to be quite different people to those who do bare knuckle boxing, so it would be a strange transition for a Kyokushin Karateka to want to fight in Bare Knuckle Boxing. It would also mean having to let go of probably the strongest weapon of Kyokushin fighters: their kicks. Most Kyokushin guys who transition to another combat sport to compete usually transition to Kickboxing or sometimes MMA.

 

[Intermission]

The type of people who do Kyokushin tend to be quite different people to those who do bare knuckle boxing, so it would be a strange transition for a Kyokushin Karateka to want to fight in Bare Knuckle Boxing. It would also mean having to let go of probably the strongest weapon of Kyokushin fighters: their kicks. Most Kyokushin guys who transition to another combat sport to compete usually transition to Kickboxing or sometimes MMA.

The talent pool is bigger in Kyokushin. They should be able to whoop ass on that alone.

I mean Mike Perry is champion

 

[NoSmilez]

Majority of KK martial artists are just walking down the middle and punching the body. BKFC isn't really bareknuckle boxing from a purist standpoint. They have those wrist wraps that change the way fighters can punch.

 

[Tayski]

The talent pool is bigger in Kyokushin. They should be able to whoop ass on that alone.

I mean Mike Perry is champion

It's still very different in terms of skillset, the only real advantage being the bare knuckle training and conditioning. For a start there are many Knockdown fighters (the competitive format of Kyokushin) who don't cross train with head punches, and as I mentioned they would also be letting go of their kicking arsenal completely. Add to that the fact that bare knuckle boxing is quite savage and destroys your face and has a lot of trashy people in it, and that's enough for most traditional martial artists to not be interested. If you're ready to cross train and fight professionally coming from Kyokushin, you're much better off going to Kickboxing or MMA both in terms of career opportunities, pay, pride and ease of transition.

 

[Intermission]

It's still very different in terms of skillset, the only real advantage being the bare knuckle training and conditioning. For a start there are many Knockdown fighters (the competitive format of Kyokushin) who don't cross train with head punches, and as I mentioned they would also be letting go of their kicking arsenal completely. Add to that the fact that bare knuckle boxing is quite savage and destroys your face and has a lot of trashy people in it, and that's enough for most traditional martial artists to not be interested. If you're ready to cross train and fight professionally coming from Kyokushin, you're much better off going to Kickboxing or MMA both in terms of career opportunities, pay, pride and ease of transition.

So you think point fighting is a better background because MVP was robbed a decision vs Mike Perry, and they dont really get hit to the face either in point karate, its just posing. Skin touch.

 

[Tayski]

So you think point fighting is a better background because MVP was robbed a decision vs Mike Perry, and they dont really get hit to the face either in point karate, its just posing. Skin touch.

I didn't say that point fighting is a better background for bare knuckle boxing, but at least it helps with distance management and being used to punches aimed at your head.

Also, MVP's background is Kickboxing (sure the point scoring type, but still) and he's been a MMA fighter quite a long time now, so you can't really use him as an example of why a point scoring karateka would do good in bare knuckle boxing.

And by the way, you do get hit in the face in point scoring karate. Sure it's supposed to be a light touch or stop right in front of it but quite often it lands harder than that.

 

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I
And by the way, you do get hit in the face in point scoring karate. Sure it's supposed to be a light touch or stop right in front of it but quite often it lands harder than that.

You are missing the fact that they are trading tsukis with each other, they have no better defence to head shots than kyokuhsin guys, if you put them both in full contact.

 

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Also, you can impose your own range of fighting if you are better than your opponent. That's mainly what fighting is about

 

[Tayski]

You are missing the fact that they are trading tsukis with each other, they have no better defence to head shots than kyokuhsin guys, if you put them both in full contact.

Let me rephrase what I already said more thoroughly; sparring with head shots even at light contact will still be better than not sparring with head punches at all. The advantage of Knockdown karate is the very tough conditioning and being able to both absorb full contact shots but also deliver strikes with a lot of power behind it and technique designed to inflct damage / finish the opponent. Having said that, it doesn't help at all with head defence and the fighting range doesn't really work in a full contact fight with head punches, and this is where the point scoring guys have more of an advantage; with footwork, distance management and also being used to having someone trying to hit their face with a punch.

How do I know this? I actually come from 5 years of Shotokan and point scoring competition before turning to Kyokushin and fighting in Knockdown rules in my early 20's for also about 5 years, until I switched to Muay Thai. So I know a thing or two about both styles and what were real benefits gained from those arts as well as bad habits.

Also, you can impose your own range of fighting if you are better than your opponent. That's mainly what fighting is about

You're not going to impose the same range of fighting as in Knockdown fights just because you're better than your opponent, simply because you can't stand head to head with someone when head punches are allowed, let alone bare knuckle, unless you're basically trying to go into brawl mode to either KO or be KO'd. Most of the time guys in that range would just clinch you anyway.

 

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Let me rephrase what I already said more thoroughly; sparring with head shots even at light contact will still be better than not sparring with head punches at all. The advantage of Knockdown karate is the very tough conditioning and being able to both absorb full contact shots but also deliver strikes with a lot of power behind it and technique designed to inflct damage / finish the opponent. Having said that, it doesn't help at all with head defence and the fighting range doesn't really work in a full contact fight with head punches, and this is where the point scoring guys have more of an advantage; with footwork, distance management and also being used to having someone trying to hit their face with a punch.

How do I know this? I actually come from 5 years of Shotokan and point scoring competition before turning to Kyokushin and fighting in Knockdown rules in my early 20's for also about 5 years, until I switched to Muay Thai. So I know a thing or two about both styles and what were real benefits gained from those arts as well as bad habits.


You're not going to impose the same range of fighting as in Knockdown fights just because you're better than your opponent, simply because you can't stand head to head with someone when head punches are allowed, let alone bare knuckle, unless you're basically trying to go into brawl mode to either KO or be KO'd. Most of the time guys in that range would just clinch you anyway.

I agree that knockdown guys are more out of their element in boxing than point fighters. But when it comes to bare knuckle, why could you not erase the phone boot mentality and have them throw body shots at longer range? They knock each other out for a living with that.

So it begs the question... Is the power in Kyokushin punches completely dependent on close range?

The closest approximation to boxing mechanics in terms of power is Kyokushin IMO.

 

[Tayski]

I agree that knockdown guys are more out of their element in boxing than point fighters. But when it comes to bare knuckle, why could you not erase the phone boot mentality and have them throw body shots at longer range? They knock each other out for a living with that.

So it begs the question... Is the power in Kyokushin punches completely dependent on close range?

The closest approximation to boxing mechanics in terms of power is Kyokushin IMO.

Because in that range you will just punch to the head a lot more than to the body,. The power of Kyokushin punches is not dependant on the range, however some serious boxing cross training will be needed to even contemplate competing in bare knuckle boxing while also ditching out the weapons where you'd have big advantages like kicks. It just doesn't make much sense overall.

You asked why there aren't Kyokushin fighters in bare knuckle boxing and I told you why, but now it's like you're trying to convince us that they would be great in it.

 

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Because in that range you will just punch to the head a lot more than to the body,. The power of Kyokushin punches is not dependant on the range, however some serious boxing cross training will be needed to even contemplate competing in bare knuckle boxing while also ditching out the weapons where you'd have big advantages like kicks. It just doesn't make much sense overall.

You asked why there aren't Kyokushin fighters in bare knuckle boxing and I told you why, but now it's like you're trying to convince us that they would be great in it.

I was under the assumption that they cross train face punching. Black belts put up youtube videos kickboxing. They also have a self defence aspect being a traditional martial art, not an olympic sport. It would make sense to at least do point fighting from their roots with face punching.

Dolph Lundgrens Kyokushin school did both point fighting and knockdown because full contact was banned in Sweden,. And Dolph was champion in both formats.

 

[NoSmilez]

KK guys don't have a good jab. They will just get chewed by it and their footwork isn't great. KK transitions better to regular kickboxing because there is combination fighting. They also have a deceptive kick from the clinch range. Their punching technique isn't good enough for strict boxing.

 

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KK guys don't have a good jab. They will just get chewed by it and their footwork isn't great. KK transitions better to regular kickboxing because there is combination fighting. They also have a deceptive kick from the clinch range. Their punching technique isn't good enough for strict boxing.

Its mostly MMA fighters in UK BKF

 

[Tayski]

I was under the assumption that they cross train face punching. Black belts put up youtube videos kickboxing. They also have a self defence aspect being a traditional martial art, not an olympic sport. It would make sense to at least do point fighting from their roots with face punching.

Dolph Lundgrens Kyokushin school did both point fighting and knockdown because full contact was banned in Sweden,. And Dolph was champion in both formats.

Most dojos don't cross train face punches. Sometimes they do point scoring type of sparring and competing, but having trained in quite a lot of Kyokushin dojos I can tell you it's not the norm. Only in Kihon and Kata face punches are trained but that's not really teaching you boxing or sparring with head punches. But yeah there are also some dojos that have kickboxing or point scoring training and sparring (called Clicker where I trained).

Most Kyokushin guys who are interested in being complete usually cross train in other arts like boxing, kickboxing, etc.

Funny you mention Dolph Lundgren, because I actually trained with him once in the past and now also sometimes visit the dojo where he was a student in his youth.

 

[Intermission]

Most dojos don't cross train face punches. Sometimes they do point scoring type of sparring and competing, but having trained in quite a lot of Kyokushin dojos I can tell you it's not the norm. Only in Kihon and Kata face punches are trained but that's not really teaching you boxing or sparring with head punches. But yeah there are also some dojos that have kickboxing or point scoring training and sparring (called Clicker where I trained).

Most Kyokushin guys who are interested in being complete usually cross train in other arts like boxing, kickboxing, etc.

Funny you mention Dolph Lundgren, because I actually trained with him once in the past and now also sometimes visit the dojo where he was a student in his youth.

What is the level of boxing for a hobbyist Muay Thai, are they poor punchers in your club?

 

[Tayski]

What is the level of boxing for a hobbyist Muay Thai, are they poor punchers in your club?

I train at a Muay Thai gym, if that's what you're asking? They're definitely not poor punches there, and there is quite a bit of focus on boxing actually.