Kurt Cobain gun tests

[Thrawn33]

Coabain basically caught lightning in a bottle by writing a catchy song at the perfect time when people needed to move past glam metal. He was a talented guy, but he wasn’t a particularly great singer, guitarist, or songwriter. It’s almost like the idea of him was bigger than what he actually was. I’d take Cornell, Staley, or Vedder over him talent-wise but the stars aligned for him I guess.

Amen and agreed

 

[Kenshi]

Coabain basically caught lightning in a bottle by writing a catchy song at the perfect time when people needed to move past glam metal. He was a talented guy, but he wasn’t a particularly great singer, guitarist, or songwriter. It’s almost like the idea of him was bigger than what he actually was. I’d take Cornell, Staley, or Vedder over him talent-wise but the stars aligned for him I guess.

Wasn’t a great song writer? He’s probably considered one of the best, especially amongst musicians themselves. Reducing Nirvana to some kind of one hit wonder band with the right timing is absurd. Nevermind is one of the most stacked albums of all time. In Utero was no joke either although much heavier and more experimental. That’s not even getting into how great he was at writing lyrics, phrasing and melodies.

I love all of the bands you mentioned so I would in no way put them down but there’s a reason they simply did not transcend the same way and won't stand the test of time. Pearl Jam may have had a bit of mainstream appeal but too many people sounded like Eddie with ease and they were just kind of boring and didn’t evolve much.

I’m a huge fan of AIC, and especially loved Mad Season as well. But they were way too depressing for the average person. Sound Garden was seriously depressing as well. Nirvana’s lyrics although creative and expressive really didn’t mean anything as a whole (they were bits of poetry stitched together that sounded nice). That was a major strength though since it simply complimented the music. Kurt simply had that "It" factor with his style, looks and attitude that were hard to put into words.

As far as how good a guitarist he was I think he’s underrated in that regard too. They had punk rock roots, and weren’t trying to be Van Halen. He was really unorthodox in the way he made chords, strummed and attacked the strings. It gave their songs a painterly touch that is actually hard to reproduce in terms of covering. The way he used effects, feedback and distortion were very creative as well. Also have to mention that he was singing while playing which isn’t the easiest thing to do. Eddie, Layne, and Chris rarely if ever did that or at least had a 2nd/lead guitarist backing them up.

It didn’t hurt that they had a young Dave Grohl on the drums! It was amazing what they accomplished with such a short lived band (about 3-4 years). Not sure if you've actually listened to their albums or just know what you've heard on the radio but I'd highly recommend it. His voice and range really shine on the Unplugged album.

 

[rocketskates]

Mostly I'm just taking the piss, obviously Dave wouldn't do anything like that.

But if it turned out that he had, it'd be fine with me. I mostly only liked AIC as far as mainstream grunge was concerned. Can't stand Vetter to this day, Chris Cornell I enjoyed more when he was with Audioslave than Soundgarden.
Acid Bath is my fave from that early 90s transitional period, the only one I still jam regularly anyway.

Kurt just represented a certain brand of bitchy unwashed poser energy that EVERYONE seemingly adored immediately, almost overnight. Their live unplugged set was solid, the cult of personality surrounding him as an icon tragically taken too soon just never resonated with me

When Peter from Type O died, that one actually hurt me to hear about.
Mostly though, rock stars dying prematurely is part of the mythology.

Kurt's death was the best thing to ever happen to his legacy, a generation of kids my age all ate it up. Otherwise his run would have aged like milk

****
Ok, "weirdly-hostile Kurt bashing" over lol

Agreed. As morbid as it sounds to say that if Kurt were still alive Nirvana would’ve long since broken up and he’d likely be doing small acoustic shows to make ends meet.

 

[StewDogg11]

I'm a huge Nirvana fan and studied the murder theory for years. I do believe he was murdered. The suspect(s) and motive were clear.

I have a hard time believing a rich rock star at the peak of his success, doing what he loved, with a beautiful one year old daughter would just decide to kill himself. Why exactly would he do that? Depression? What problem could millions of dollars not solve exactly?

Watch his final interviews. He's extremely coherent, and happy.

This is by far one of the dumbest posts I’ve ever read. Rich people kill themselves all the time. Money isn’t some magical cure for mental illness and depression.

 

[HHJ]

I dont know why its so hard for people to accept he killed himself. All he ever did was complain about life.

This.

Like Courtney Love is some fucking cunning undercover genius who can get away with murder or hiring someone for murder

Gimme a fuckin break.

Dude was obviously constantly struggling with mental health and HEROIN ADDICTION

 

[Fury]

Dude was obviously constantly struggling with mental health and HEROIN ADDICTION

I loved Nirvana, they came along right at the time that I was old enough to really choose what I liked for my own reasons, but this is pretty much it.

He was struggling with addiction and other mental health issues.

I understood this at 12 or whatever I was when he died.

 

[HHJ]

El Duce knew the truth. They had him killed for it....

I think Duce was just taking the piss.

Hail Mentors anyway

 

[mozfonky]

Wasn’t a great song writer? He’s probably considered one of the best, especially amongst musicians themselves. Reducing Nirvana to some kind of one hit wonder band with the right timing is absurd. Nevermind is one of the most stacked albums of all time. In Utero was no joke either although much heavier and more experimental. That’s not even getting into how great he was at writing lyrics, phrasing and melodies.

I love all of the bands you mentioned so I would in no way put them down but there’s a reason they simply did not transcend the same way and won't stand the test of time. Pearl Jam may have had a bit of mainstream appeal but too many people sounded like Eddie with ease and they were just kind of boring and didn’t evolve much.

I’m a huge fan of AIC, and especially loved Mad Season as well. But they were way too depressing for the average person. Sound Garden was seriously depressing as well. Nirvana’s lyrics although creative and expressive really didn’t mean anything as a whole (they were bits of poetry stitched together that sounded nice). That was a major strength though since it simply complimented the music. Kurt simply had that "It" factor with his style, looks and attitude that were hard to put into words.

As far as how good a guitarist he was I think he’s underrated in that regard too. They had punk rock roots, and weren’t trying to be Van Halen. He was really unorthodox in the way he made chords, strummed and attacked the strings. It gave their songs a painterly touch that is actually hard to reproduce in terms of covering. The way he used effects, feedback and distortion were very creative as well. Also have to mention that he was singing while playing which isn’t the easiest thing to do. Eddie, Layne, and Chris rarely if ever did that or at least had a 2nd/lead guitarist backing them up.

It didn’t hurt that they had a young Dave Grohl on the drums! It was amazing what they accomplished with such a short lived band (about 3-4 years). Not sure if you've actually listened to their albums or just know what you've heard on the radio but I'd highly recommend it. His voice and range really shine on the Unplugged album.

ya, i don't even like the guy or am very familiar with his work and I thought the songs were solid and they were fresh.

Like it or not, times should change, my heroes from the 80's had all the glam, all the hair, all the posturing that we needed. Sure, the new artists did the same in their own way but it was bound to happen, the pendulum always swings.

As far as the death, I think it's pretty clear he killed himself and overanalysis just makes people suspicious, so what, a shotgun shell landed where you wouldn't think it would, that's not enough proof to me that he killed himself.

I just watched the netflix Jon Benet case and it's a lot harder to figure out anything there. None of it really makes sense when it's all put together. The ransom note, sexual motivation? Then the son is a weirdo. The parents seem ok to me, some are saying they covered up for the son. None of the pieces fit, if a guy was going to kidnap her, why kill her? No money in that, just strange as hell. The dad seems like such a nice guy and the mom seems like a normal mom. The boy seems off but being weird doesn't make you a killer.

 

[mozfonky]

I think Duce was just taking the piss.

Hail Mentors anyway

nothing about him screams credibility. I knew lots of guys like him in the area, can't help but wonder how the hell they got through life the way they were. Now they're all old and i doubt any of their cliques, and groups they clung to and lived for are even in existence.

 

[mozfonky]

Agreed. As morbid as it sounds to say that if Kurt were still alive Nirvana would’ve long since broken up and he’d likely be doing small acoustic shows to make ends meet.

naw, none of the big groups are doing that. Pearl Jam was number 2 and they are still big. I never really liked either but they did lead the way for a very brief buzz over the town.

 

[USA!USA!]

Coabain basically caught lightning in a bottle by writing a catchy song at the perfect time when people needed to move past glam metal. He was a talented guy, but he wasn’t a particularly great singer, guitarist, or songwriter. It’s almost like the idea of him was bigger than what he actually was. I’d take Cornell, Staley, or Vedder over him talent-wise but the stars aligned for him I guess.

This is good analysis IMO. Still a talented guy.. but him dying young made him explode even more.

I'd like to think if something similar happened to any of the guys you mentioned, it would be similar..

It happened to Staley a little later, and Cornell even later than that when he was in his 50s so not the same effect at all.. but if they were at their peak, I'd assume it would hit differently.

BTW love the account name.. AIC is one of my favorite bands of all time.

 

[mozfonky]

This is good analysis IMO. Still a talented guy.. but him dying young made him explode even more.

I'd like to think if something similar happened to any of the guys you mentioned, it would be similar..

It happened to Staley a little later, and Cornell even later than that when he was in his 50s so not the same effect at all.. but if they were at their peak, I'd assume it would hit differently.

BTW love the account name.. AIC is one of my favorite bands of all time.

I read an article once that said had Joplin and Morrison not died when they did, they'd have been forgotten. I didn't live through that era and I don't really know if they're right. Dying young has a way of exaggerating things, I never thought Amy Winehouse was very special, but Hendrix and Holly were generational talents and left tons of potential unfulfilled.

John Lennon probably got credit for being the prime mover of the beatles after his death and I think he was seen that way all along but his death made that more pronounced. However, in my research, it was really Paul who did the most to push the group forward and keep it going long after everyone else was disinterested. So, Paul is just seen as the light, pop side who went on to put out a string of bad albums and John is seen as the artistic force behind the group.

 

[HHJ]

Was never into Nirvana in the same way I liked Soundgarden or AIC, but they WERE a good band. Kurt seemed like a personable enough guy but destroyed by drugs and depression.

 

[Aegon Spengler]

This.

Like Courtney Love is some fucking cunning undercover genius who can get away with murder or hiring someone for murder

Gimme a fuckin break.

Dude was obviously constantly struggling with mental health and HEROIN ADDICTION

Yeah, I don’t like Courtney, I find her very odd, but the idea that she could just get away with murder in some kind of perfect crime is ridiculous.

It was funny that she was mad at Dave Grohl for “putting something on the Nirvana credit card” - whatever that is, she was like, why would he be doing that? He’s scamming etc.
But he was in the band… she wasn’t.

 

[HHJ]

I read an article once that said had Joplin and Morrison not died when they did, they'd have been forgotten.

I doubt it. Morrison for sure carved a niche while he was alive that wouldnt have just faded away. It's like saying Hendrix would have been forgotten. No way bro.

 

[USA!USA!]

I doubt it. Morrison for sure carved a niche while he was alive that wouldnt have just faded away. It's like saying Hendrix would have been forgotten. No way bro.

Yeah I agree, I don't think "forgotten" is accurate IMO..

definitely less renowned though I'd wager

An early death has a way with highlighting someone's accomplishments and works to a new level.. imagine if Hendrix went on to be a guitarist in a unimpressive contemporary pop-rock band later in life.. it wouldn't hit the same and he'd be viewed differently despite his early success.

 

[mozfonky]

Yeah, I don’t like Courtney, I find her very odd, but the idea that she could just get away with murder in some kind of perfect crime is ridiculous.

It was funny that she was mad at Dave Grohl for “putting something on the Nirvana credit card” - whatever that is, she was like, why would he be doing that? He’s scamming etc.
But he was in the band… she wasn’t.

that's the nature of women, they get into shit they shouldn't be in and the man lets them. Ruins tons of business situations. Can't tell a man in love a damned thing, i've seen them totatlly turned out.

 

[mozfonky]

I doubt it. Morrison for sure carved a niche while he was alive that wouldnt have just faded away. It's like saying Hendrix would have been forgotten. No way bro.

I think the take was that Joplin nor Morrison had the talent to make them anything more than a flavor of the month. I can't really say, I know so little about either of them. The tunes are good and Morrison had a capable band for sure. I just never got too into either. In a lot of ways, they and Kurt seem the same, the one time outcast/weirdo getting to play bigshot and that was all they really wanted all along. Not that that's unusual, all or most of rocks best talents came from the outcast with chips on their shoulders.

 

[HHJ]

Morrison was a dickhead in those LA circles in the 60s and a lot of people didn't like him. But being a raging alcoholic will do that. Morrison is still overrated as a singer but the doors as whole were an extremely talented band. Robby's slide guitar and Ray's keys just worked in a way that hadn't been heard before. I suggest you take a listen to the first two albums and LA Woman.

LA Woman is a top five favorite all time song for me.

Morrison was def not well liked by many people due to his drunkeness, but I dont think he was overrated as a singer or as a Frontman.

 

[mozfonky]

Morrison was def not well liked by many people due to his drunkeness, but I dont think he was overrated as a singer or as a Frontman.

I always thought of him as the precursor to all the later posers of rock, the early rockers weren't nearly as pretentious or conscious of how they presented. the theory has always been that Chuck, Elvis, Little Richard and Jerry Lee were unconscious of what they signified. Not a hundred percent true, because Little Richard has said he played up being gay and he had the whole straight band act gay with him because he knew a gay black male wouldn't be seen as a threat, he knew what he was doing to some degree. However, almost all those guys have similar creation stories where they did what came naturally out of the blue and someone keyed in, it happened with Sam Phillips when Elvis spontaneously busted into "That's Alright" and it happened with Little Richard when he was restrained in a recording session but played before his producer in bar and cut loose, his producer told him that's what they needed, tutti fruiti with the bootie lyrics taken out became his first hit.