Kurt Cobain gun tests

[Fedorgasm]

So the video showed that it IS possible to pull the trigger from that position, although it's awkward.

BUT

They also said Kurt's hand was wrapped around the barrel, and they demonstrated how that particular model has a moving barrel when it's fired that would likely throw his hand off. So it's suspicious. Like someone wrapped his hand around the barrel after he was dead.

Then what about Kurt talking to a divorce lawyer beforehand? And El Duce? And the fact that Courtney was a known gold digging groupie that tried to hitching her wagon to Billy Corgan, but ditched him when she saw Kurt's star rising faster.

Also, presumably Kurt had shot guns before, since he owned one. So would he really choose a target load for suicide? There's a chance for survival with that load. He would've used something stronger that would guarantee a quick death.

Also, how many people kill themselves with a gun when they're super high on heroin? I've never done heroin, but doesn't it make you feel amazing and you just wanna lie there and feel it? All the heroin deaths I've heard of were always people overdosing, not shooting themselves.

 

[mozfonky]

If there's one kind of person you can trust in this world, it's an inbred neo Nazi S&M fetishist.

ya, the guy who put out the main "courtney killed kurt" docu that interviewed him I really thought was a scumbag for some of that footage as well as his tupac/biggie vid but then he surprised me with his very professionally done docu on Whitney Houston (Nick Broomfield). Very straightforward docu with no conspiracy bs.

 

[Elvis.]

 

[Fedorgasm]

ya, the guy who put out the main "courtney killed kurt" docu that interviewed him I really thought was a scumbag for some of that footage as well as his tupac/biggie vid but then he surprised me with his very professionally done docu on Whitney Houston (Nick Broomfield). Very straightforward docu with no conspiracy bs.

That's hilarious because I think she was also murdered.

 

[mozfonky]

So the video showed that it IS possible to pull the trigger from that position, although it's awkward.

BUT

They also said Kurt's hand was wrapped around the barrel, and they demonstrated how that particular model has a moving barrel when it's fired that would likely throw his hand off. So it's suspicious. Like someone wrapped his hand around the barrel after he was dead.

Then what about Kurt talking to a divorce lawyer beforehand? And El Duce? And the fact that Courtney was a known gold digging groupie that tried to hitching her wagon to Billy Corgan, but ditched him when she saw Kurt's star rising faster.

Also, how many people kill themselves with a gun when they're super high on heroin? I've never done heroin, but doesn't it make you feel amazing and you just wanna lie there and feel it? All the heroin deaths I've heard of were always people overdosing, not shooting themselves.

I don't know, when i saw how the hand was apparently gripped, I thought it was unlikely too but as Dr. Michael Baden pointed out when he was asked for forensic evidence in the Phil Spektor case to be clarified, he said he never blew his head off, which is a good answer really. His opinion was that Phil didn't shoot her but that she committed suicide, which to me, just shows how "experts" can be bought and sold, Baden's wife was a lawyer for Phil so he was hardly unbiased. His take was that the woman shot herself and mentioned how she broke a fingernail when the gun went off.

All of this is to say, we weren't there, we are all vulnerable to not having all the facts and maybe not being told everything. I think there are pictures that haven't been shown publicly so that would tells us whether he was gripping the gun or not if we ever saw them. Also, people forget it but Kurt came close to death not long before the suicide, I believe it was an od and no one blamed Courtney for that one.

These celeb deaths get so much analysis and again, we're so far outside of the loop, we have to hear all the different angles from all the different people and it just confuses a lot of us. In Prince's case, I still think it's very possible he committed suicide which the fans generally balk at and his death was about the one that hit me the hardest and made me analyze the most. His autopsy isn't public in his state and it's sealed for 30 years from the time of his death, so I always thought they were hiding something to protect his image.

You'd have to live for awhile to see the answers to some of these. Elvis' autopsy will be unsealed in a couple years but I think his death was pretty clear, thanks to his fans not having the shenanigans that others have had to put up with, Elvis had such love that no way were the fans tolerating any coverups. Bruce Lee only had it revealed in the last few years that he was strung out on all sorts of drugs, he was messing with coke, lsd, mescaline and who knows what else, none of this was confirmed until a few years ago. We all knew about cannabis but not all this other shit he was poisoning his system with, and we still wouldn't if the "drug letters" in his own hand, asking for this and that weren't put on auction to the public a few years ago.

In other words, it's easy to get paralysis from analysis when it comes to these guys.

 

[Belaya Smert]

“He was a Junkie!!”
Buzz from the Melvin’s

 

[mozfonky]

That's hilarious because I think she was also murdered.

that is ironic, I always thought that guy was a scumbag so i was shocked when i saw a professional docu from him. The only indication or odd story I heard was when Whitney's trusted friend claimed that the hotel room was flooded with water yet the bath faucet was OFF. This was in another docu but the director did not want to derail the story by leaving that tidbit in.

Who and why would anyone murder whitney? I think her autopsy mainly indicated that she had some sort of cardiac event and fell into the tub and drowned. She certainly did enough drugs to die, even taking a hit of coke right before she fell into the tub. It was bizarre too, the party downstairs still going on while her body was in the building was, as Chaka Khan said, "demonic".

 

[ricc505]

Kurt? Ya, he did, some say he never wanted to be a rockstar but you don't do what he did if you don't want notoriety. He absolutely did knock MJ's album of the time of the top spot (which really, doesn't prove anything but is symbolic) and overnight ended the glam rock, the pretty boy shit, the glitz. Not everyone thought that was good. Gene Simmons said of the later musics that that was a big reason that guitar based music stopped creating stars "people stopped looking like stars" while he fully endorsed the nutty aesthetics in hip hop. I kinda thought it was ironic how Springsteen was amongst the artist to have the sales slump when he was wearing the flannel, the jeans, not dressing like a star way before grunge. All the 90's stars had a hard time, Springsteen, Prince and MJ all had to incorporate some hip hop into their music, some rap and like any older artist following a fad, it doesn't always work. Prince's fans really hated the rap music, MJ did well by having guests who were hot ad some rap to his music. Springsteen? I still don't understand what the hell he needed rap beats on Streets of philadelphia but it was a big hit and I think he won an award for it.

George Michael pretty much flopped with everything he did in the 90's and the guy I think put out the best album that I'm aware of in the 90's, Terence Trent D'arby, lost his record contract for his efforts.

I grew up listing to Motown and doo-wop with my dad and branched out on my own around grunge and skipped the hair and glam age. The first true outsider I met in Catholic school was real deep into Nirvana and had bleach and insecticide bootlegs when we were in 5th or 6th grade(I think). A friend and I used to break into an abandoned factory in town and found a shrine with about a thousand candles, posters of Cobain and writing and art all over the walls after he killed himself. It's funny I had grunge clothes back then(still so) because that was how my dad dressed. Another friend loved Kiss and that didn't go over well in Catholic school, neither did ANY rap.

My wife recently bought and started wearing a Nirvana distressed t shirt. After my incredulous reaction, I produced my nevermind cassette that's literally as old as she is, the end result was just her calling me old

 

[mozfonky]

I grew up listing to Motown and doo-wop with my dad and branched out on my own around grunge and skipped the hair and glam age. The first true outsider I met in Catholic school was real deep into Nirvana and had bleach and insecticide bootlegs when we were in 5th or 6th grade(I think). A friend and I used to break into an abandoned factory in town and found a shrine with about a thousand candles, posters of Cobain and writing and art all over the walls after he killed himself. It's funny I had grunge clothes back then(still so) because that was how my dad dressed. Another friend loved Kiss and that didn't go over well in Catholic school, neither did ANY rap.

My wife recently bought and started wearing a Nirvana distressed t shirt. After my incredulous reaction, I produced my nevermind cassette that's literally as old as she is, the end result was just her calling me old

I think that is a large part of any fad, the part about a generation just craving something different to call their own. Let's face it, kids really don't know what's being marketed to them for the most part in terms of quality. Image and marketing have a huge role. I consider myself very fortunate to grow up in the era I did, MJ, Prince, Springsteen were all formidable artists.

 

[HelloJapan]

Soaked in Bleach is a great doc that really goes deep into this topic. Found it free on YT, if anyone wants to check it out.

 

[AFanNotAFighter]

Kurt? Ya, he did, some say he never wanted to be a rockstar but you don't do what he did if you don't want notoriety. He absolutely did knock MJ's album of the time of the top spot (which really, doesn't prove anything but is symbolic) and overnight ended the glam rock, the pretty boy shit, the glitz. Not everyone thought that was good. Gene Simmons said of the later musics that that was a big reason that guitar based music stopped creating stars "people stopped looking like stars" while he fully endorsed the nutty aesthetics in hip hop. I kinda thought it was ironic how Springsteen was amongst the artist to have the sales slump when he was wearing the flannel, the jeans, not dressing like a star way before grunge. All the 90's stars had a hard time, Springsteen, Prince and MJ all had to incorporate some hip hop into their music, some rap and like any older artist following a fad, it doesn't always work. Prince's fans really hated the rap music, MJ did well by having guests who were hot ad some rap to his music. Springsteen? I still don't understand what the hell he needed rap beats on Streets of philadelphia but it was a big hit and I think he won an award for it.

George Michael pretty much flopped with everything he did in the 90's and the guy I think put out the best album that I'm aware of in the 90's, Terence Trent D'arby, lost his record contract for his efforts.

Jim Morrison was the same. Never wanted to be a singer/rock star. All he really wanted was to be a writer/poet. Rock star fame gave his writings a lot of notice/fame/money.

I lived in your are in 1990-92 and remember the grunge scene well. In those days you couldn't walk into a bar or tavern without hearing grunge. It got to be so overplayed it reminded me of the fate that befell disco in the 70s.

 

[cws80us]

Dave wouldn't kill him, what for?

I never liked the era either, between that and gangsta rap, they really did succesfully kill off the rock era and wanted nothing to do with the previous eras at all, they wanted none of it, no matter how much they took from it like a parasite. I do think Kurt was a good songwriter and an ok singer, not much else though. Lots of good-great albums from my faves went ignored because of the changing of the guard.

Cobain being on the all-time lists of guitar players is the biggest joke to me.

 

[mozfonky]

Jim Morrison was the same. Never wanted to be a singer/rock star. All he really wanted was to be a writer/poet. Rock star fame gave his writings a lot of notice/fame/money.

I lived in your are in 1990-92 and remember the grunge scene well. In those days you couldn't walk into a bar or tavern without hearing grunge. It got to be so overplayed it reminded me of the fate that befell disco in the 70s.

never too into morrison either, always mean to listen to more of the doors but never get around to it. It's ironic that morrison never wanted to be a star (if that's true) he really made being pretentious and posturing a thing in rock music. Before the 60's, the theory is that most rockers were blissfully unware of exactly what they did, which, is of course not 100 percent true but has a lot of truth to it.

 

[mozfonky]

Cobain being on the all-time lists of guitar players is the biggest joke to me.

that's what I'm saying, he does not belong in those sorts of categories. Of course I resent that kind of thing when I've seen guys who do all that cobain did well and more. Maybe that was the problem though, the 80's went so buckwild with all the phoniness that a backlash was bound to happen, it's all cyclical. Also, the sheer bloatedness and bigness of the 80's, George Michael, Madonna, Prince, MJ and US all had cartoonish levels of fame and the business period just had so much glitziness that the pendulum was bound to go the other way but why something like that?

I think many of them were sorta dumbfounded and didn't know what to do. It had to be weird having so many facets of music so highly developed give way to something so basic. Guns and Roses were a pretty good band, having more to offer than the poisons and so on, suddenly they were old hat.

 

[Gutter Chris]

Dave wouldn't kill him, what for?

I never liked the era either, between that and gangsta rap, they really did succesfully kill off the rock era and wanted nothing to do with the previous eras at all, they wanted none of it, no matter how much they took from it like a parasite. I do think Kurt was a good songwriter and an ok singer, not much else though. Lots of good-great albums from my faves went ignored because of the changing of the guard.

When I was young and punk I considered it a badge of honor that my fave albums went ignored. Lol. As an adult I clearly see the problem with thinking this way.

 

[mozfonky]

When I was young and punk I considered it a badge of honor that my fave albums went ignored. Lol. As an adult I clearly see the problem with thinking this way.

That was the case with a lot of the grunge people I knew who were in Indie bands, they seemed to hate anyone with any success and only liked obscure bands. There are merits to that as many artists are the most pure before they hit the mania levels of fame. Most serious music fans consider Elvis' peak to be the very first records he made, before he went national, Springsteen had several albums that had more substance than Born In The USA back when he could still be called a cult artist. Alot of critics used really seemed to believe that Prince's 1999/Purple Rain peak was not as good as the poorly selling, demo recorded Dirty Mind. There is absolutely some truth to the big pop happening taking something out of an artist.

 

[Halifax]

He killed himself and the evidence was pretty overwhelming.

 

[Osculater]

he was pretty big before he died, pretty much overnight ended all the glitz of the 80's. I don't know how posterity would view any of it had he not died. I do know grunge didn't really have a lasting impact, came and went like so many fads before it.

I never liked what it stood for and as many people called it, it was whiney. I'll never forget my black friend were watching something off mtv right after he died and his contempt was venomous, mainly because, "I just don't understand what they are angry about" Which makes sense when you have a back ground of true poverty, bottom of society poverty, streetkid poverty. I never really understood it either but I've always tried to be objective. Some of the songs were good and so far as Cornel, he was one of the best vocalists in rock history, top tier but I'm not sure if he was even really grunge. I didn't know he was in a group before that.

Didn't Kurt sleep under a bridge for a bit LOL

 

[Osculater]

So the video showed that it IS possible to pull the trigger from that position, although it's awkward.

BUT

They also said Kurt's hand was wrapped around the barrel, and they demonstrated how that particular model has a moving barrel when it's fired that would likely throw his hand off. So it's suspicious. Like someone wrapped his hand around the barrel after he was dead.

Then what about Kurt talking to a divorce lawyer beforehand? And El Duce? And the fact that Courtney was a known gold digging groupie that tried to hitching her wagon to Billy Corgan, but ditched him when she saw Kurt's star rising faster.

Also, presumably Kurt had shot guns before, since he owned one. So would he really choose a target load for suicide? There's a chance for survival with that load. He would've used something stronger that would guarantee a quick death.

Also, how many people kill themselves with a gun when they're super high on heroin? I've never done heroin, but doesn't it make you feel amazing and you just wanna lie there and feel it? All the heroin deaths I've heard of were always people overdosing, not shooting themselves.

Why would Courtney kill Kurt when he wrote all her big hits

 

[mozfonky]

Didn't Kurt sleep under a bridge for a bit LOL

that's what I heard.