Knives

aerius said:
Short answer - no, there is no overall best steel. All steels are a compromise between toughness, corrosion resistance, and wear resistance, there's no magic steel which has the best of everything. If I'm a saltwater fisherman for example and need a knife which doesn't rust I'm going to have to give up a fair bit of wear resistance and/or toughness. If I want to max out wear resistance I'm going to end up with a blade which is fairly brittle and rusts easily if I look at it wrong. For a machete that's getting hacked into things all day, toughness is going to be the 1st priority and the rest isn't all that important since it's going to be getting filed & sharpened pretty frequently.

Honestly? 14C28N is about as good as anyone really needs. No it won't hold an edge forever like M390 or the other exotic steels I have, but it takes a very fine edge which lasts a decently long time and it's pretty stainless & doesn't chip easily. It's basically a poor man's Magnacut, you get about 3/4 of the performance at 1/4 of the price.
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So then which do you think would be the best for a kitchen knife or a chef's knife? Something I'm guessing that prioritizes hardness & holding an edge above all.
 
Madmick said:
I'm assuming "super steels" refers to stuff like Magnacut.

Do you know: is there one steel alloy that is prized above all others as a blend? I imagine it doesn't necessarily have to be the most expensive one because the elements that make up the mix aren't the rarest or hardest to come by. And I suspect what is most prized changes depending on what characteristics you're after for a knife.

But let's assume price isn't an issue, and the skill/equipment of the knifemaker can handle anything. Is there a best?
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for overall best edge retention & wear resistance: Rex 121 or Maxamet

for best balanced characteristics (edge retention/toughness/corrosion resistance)
- stainless steels: MagnaCut or S110V
- non-stainless steels: Vanadis8 or CPM-CruWear

but @aerius gave the actual real answer—that there really isn’t a right answer.
 
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Madmick said:
So thin which do you think would be the best for a kitchen knife or a chef's knife? Something I'm guessing that prioritizes hardness & holding an edge above all.
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a high-carbon stainless steel w/ good corrosion resistance & toughness. edge retention for chef knives is certainly nice, but less of a priority (in general) in favor of the other two properties & frequent sharpening.

there are def some companies out there there days putting out chef knives w/ blade steels that have much stronger edge retention results. ik i personally would get a stainless w/ high(er than usual) edge retention for plain ol’ house use
 
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Madmick said:
So thin which do you think would be the best for a kitchen knife or a chef's knife? Something I'm guessing that prioritizes hardness & holding an edge above all.
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Chef's knives are kind of an interesting use case. You do want high hardness since it allows for very thin edges & acute edge angles for high cutting performance, but wear resistance isn't super important since foods aren't particularly abrasive like cardboard or dirty carpet. You also want fine grain structure and small carbides to get the sharpest possible edge on the knife along with enough toughness that it doesn't chip apart. Corrosion resistance is optional depending on how well you take care of your knives.

For stainless I like VG-10, it's a good balance of everything at an affordable price. Cost no object, have fun with Magnacut, M390, and the other exotic power metallurgy steels.
Non-stainless, any of the simple carbon steels with a bit of vanadium in them work well, O1, Aogami series on the more affordable end, or ApexUltra if you want to go nuts.
 
aerius said:
Chef's knives are kind of an interesting use case. You do want high hardness since it allows for very thin edges & acute edge angles for high cutting performance, but wear resistance isn't super important since foods aren't particularly abrasive like cardboard or dirty carpet. You also want fine grain structure and small carbides to get the sharpest possible edge on the knife along with enough toughness that it doesn't chip apart. Corrosion resistance is optional depending on how well you take care of your knives.

For stainless I like VG-10, it's a good balance of everything at an affordable price. Cost no object, have fun with Magnacut, M390, and the other exotic power metallurgy steels.
Non-stainless, any of the simple carbon steels with a bit of vanadium in them work well, O1, Aogami series on the more affordable end, or ApexUltra if you want to go nuts.
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Is the advantage of non-stainless steels simply that they cost less, or is there something else?
 
Madmick said:
Is the advantage of non-stainless steels simply that they cost less, or is there something else?
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It's all about trade-offs. Stainless steels will always be more brittle & less wear than their non-stainless counterparts, that's just the way metallurgy works. The grain size will also be larger which limits how sharp the edge can get. If corrosion resistance isn't a concern, non-stainless steels will always outperform their stainless counterparts.
 
Madmick said:
I'm assuming "super steels" refers to stuff like Magnacut.

Do you know: is there one steel alloy that is prized above all others as a blend? I imagine it doesn't necessarily have to be the most expensive one because the elements that make up the mix aren't the rarest or hardest to come by. And I suspect what is most prized changes depending on what characteristics you're after for a knife.

But let's assume price isn't an issue, and the skill/equipment of the knifemaker can handle anything. Is there a best?
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there are so many variables some steels are better for kitchen knives some better for survival knives etc .Some are rare in small batches or have specific properties etc.. for instance CTS204p is known for is corrosion and wear resistance and is metallurgically similar to M390 just made in a different factory if you wanna see what a talented person can do with steel look here

Home | Promethean Knives

Official website of award winning knifemaker Salem Straub, and home of the Promethean Knives brand. Handmade chef knife and art knife portfolio.
www.prometheanknives.com www.prometheanknives.com
https://www.instagram.com/salemstraub/?hl=en
 
HenryFlower said:
View attachment 1103540
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finally decided to dip my toes in a mid-budget knife—Spyderco Para3 w/ s110v blade steel & g-10 handle scales. ended up getting one of the titanium clips from LynchNW because goddamn the stock Spyderco pocket clip is a legit tragedy of dog shit design & functionality.

i’ve been putting this thing through a ton of heavy use at work the past few weeks since getting it & the edge is still slicing as if it was still day 1 fresh out the box.
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Mid budget? Isn't that like a $300 knife?
 
lsa said:
Its a good bang for the buck.
Their garberg is one of the best knife in that price range.
Its solid as hell. Its the one in the "middle"
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Im aware, I added a Garberg to my collection. I like that it comes with a ferro rod
 
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aerius said:
It's all about trade-offs. Stainless steels will always be more brittle & less wear than their non-stainless counterparts, that's just the way metallurgy works. The grain size will also be larger which limits how sharp the edge can get. If corrosion resistance isn't a concern, non-stainless steels will always outperform their stainless counterparts.
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I see. I haven't studied any of this personally, but I spend most of my YouTube viewing time consuming educational shit, which leads me to very random topics, sometimes, and this video was recently fed to me:


At 1:25 he mentions a Dr. Larrin Thomas, describing him as the metallurgical mind behind "Knife Steel Nerds", and that this man was contracted by the owner of Pop's Knife Supply, Joe Berry, to design an alloy that is a better performing "15 & 20" in the same space. The maker of the video is transparent that Pop's Knife Supply is the sponsor of the video, so it's basically an infomercial for the product Thomas came up with which he called "Pro-Cut Steel". I'm assuming it would be fairly characterized as one of the most recently conceived "super steels" you mentioned on the previous page.

Here is a page about Thomas. He has a Ph.D. in Metallurgical and Materials Engineering at the Colorado School of Mines (which I'm going to assume blindly is probably one of the best schools in the world for that field of study):
knifesteelnerds.com

About Me - Knife Steel Nerds

I’m Larrin Thomas, a steel metallurgist in Pittsburgh, PA. I developed an interest in steel by visiting knife shows with my father, Devin Thomas, who makes damascus steel. At those knife shows I heard knife makers claim that their steels and heat treatments were better for various and...
knifesteelnerds.com knifesteelnerds.com

He wrote a book which is apparently prized by knife-makers for its tutorial on metals and metal properties used in their craft:

Knife Engineering: Steel, Heat Treating, and Geometry: Thomas, Dr. Larrin: 9798621848873: Amazon.com: Books

Knife Engineering: Steel, Heat Treating, and Geometry [Thomas, Dr. Larrin] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Knife Engineering: Steel, Heat Treating, and Geometry
www.amazon.com

Here is the steel in question. It's broadly summarized on the YouTube page as a Nickel-Vanadium-Tungsten alloy, and is non-Stainless, but you can see the makeup in the full datasheet linked at the below URL:
popsknife.supplies

Pop's ProCut

A collaborative design between Knife Steel Nerd's Larrin Thomas and Pop's Knife Supply. This carbon steel has the perfect balance between toughness and edge retention. It's extremely forgiving to heat treat, with exceptional hardness and ultra fine grain structure. It's also an alternative for...
popsknife.supplies
ProCut is designed to have the wear resistance of high tungsten/vanadium steels, such as Wolfram Special, Blue series steels, and CruForgeV, with the high toughness of high nickel steels, like 8670. It is also relatively easy to forge, heat treat, grind, and finish, resulting in a good balance of usability and performance for the end user. With the high nickel content, it can also be used as the “bright layer” in high-performance pattern-welded Damascus.
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In the chart you see in the datasheet its edge retention lags pretty far behind the Apex Ultra, but it's second only to that among the steels shown in the chart, and for toughness, it is leaps and bounds above Apex (higher than even 8670).

Is there any buzz about this stuff?
 
Madmick said:
At 1:25 he mentions a Dr. Larrin Thomas, describing him as the metallurgical mind behind "Knife Steel Nerds", and that this man was contracted by the owner of Pop's Knife Supply, Joe Berry, to design an alloy that is a better performing "15 & 20" in the same space. The maker of the video is transparent that Pop's Knife Supply is the sponsor of the video, so it's basically an infomercial for the product Thomas came up with which he called "Pro-Cut Steel". I'm assuming it would be fairly characterized as one of the most recently conceived "super steels" you mentioned on the previous page.

Here is a page about Thomas. He has a Ph.D. in Metallurgical and Materials Engineering at the Colorado School of Mines (which I'm going to assume blindly is probably one of the best schools in the world for that field of study):
Click to expand...

I've corresponded with Dr. Larrin Thomas for around 15 years on one of the smaller knife forums, he most definitely knows his stuff when it comes to knife steels & metallurgy. He was part of a group of knife makers & testers who did a ton of work in optimizing heat treating procedures & blade geometries for various steels, they could often double the performance of their test knives compared to similar production knives made from the same steels.

As for ProCut steel, it's a pretty niche product which is mostly for the custom/small maker market so there's not much hype on it. Spyderco might do a test mule or limited run but I don't see it becoming a regular part of the lineup like MagnaCut. The steel itself is quite good, it's easy to work with and has high toughness & good wear resistance. I think it would be great for kitchen knives since the fine grain structure & high toughness would allow for thin, high performance edges which won't get damaged when abused by normal people like my kids.

The problem is the knife market is stupid and highly prone to flavor of the month syndrome, and the flavor of the month in recent years is super high wear resistance steels like ZDP-189, S110V, and Maxamet which are way harder & more wear resistant than anyone needs, but they're also brittle and a bitch to heat treat properly so the performance of production knives made from these steels is pretty inconsistent. There's been a bunch of cases where knives made from exotic super steels end up performing no better than bog standard VG-10. The manufacturers also know that most of their customers will just fondle their knives for a year or two before selling them off and buying the next hyped model, they'll never use their knives enough to know how well they actually work. There's a ton of incentive to stuff the "latest & greatest" steel into their knives and no real reason to optimize the heat treat and make them perform to their max potential.
 
Anybody know where a Canadian can buy a switchblade 👀

I had two and my idiot ex lost one and threw out the other just because it was missing a screw. It’s not hard to replace a fucking screw. Ugh.

Anyways, now nobody ships here. Depressing times we live in.
 
Kardashians said:
Anybody know where a Canadian can buy a switchblade 👀

I had two and my idiot ex lost one and threw out the other just because it was missing a screw. It’s not hard to replace a fucking screw. Ugh.

Anyways, now nobody ships here. Depressing times we live in.
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"i just killed my boyfriend"

Did you use the switchblade on him?
 
Kardashians said:
Anybody know where a Canadian can buy a switchblade 👀
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Switchblades are illegal in Canada so you'll have to find a way to smuggle it in.
However, Kershaw makes spring assisted knives which might as well be switchblades and these are legal where we live.



srknives.com

Kershaw Knives Canada Online Store

THERE IS NOTHING LIKE A KERSHAW From award-winning technologies and advanced materials to the solid sound of the blade lockup, when you’re carrying a Kershaw, you know you’re carrying the real thing. The real thing means value and plenty of it. With Kershaw, you get incredible bang for your...
srknives.com
Look for anything that says "assisted" or "assisted opening" and it'll be the same as the one in the video.
 
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