Klay Pittman Belt System?

[100%Jiu-Jitsu]

This is off topic but there is a dilemma when you have a guy from another art crossing over who has the skills to hang with our beat your black belts. But at the same time, black belts in most TMAs are about more than just fighting skill. Things like knowledge of the history of the art, understanding of the philosophy of the art (if applicable), how they represent martial arts or that art as a whole, and how much they contribute to the growing of the art.

I know on Sherdog, most of this stuff wouldn't matter since its all about fighting. But for some instructors that stuff is just as important as fighting ability. So you run into cases like Josh Barnett who has a black belt in BJJ officially speaking but came up through catch wrestling for a majority of his skillset.

In my view, the solution is to admit that BJJ belt rankings are not universal metrics of grappling ability. They are simply indicators of proficiency in BJJ.

A grappler who has mastered other disciplines (e.g., wrestling) may be able to use his mat skills to defeat a BJJJ black belt. But unless he demonstrates mastery of core BJJ techniques (e.g., the guard, collar chokes), he doesn't deserve a black belt in BJJ himself.

 

[kimble09]

Guessing it is:

white + (20 classes then you get)
yellow + (30 more (50 total) classes then you get)
orange + (40 more (90 total) classes then you get)
green + (40 more (130 total) classes then you get)
blue + (40 more (170 total) classes then you get)
purple + (40 more (210 total) classes then you get)
brown + (60 more (270 total) classes then you get)
advanced brown + (60 more (330 total) classes then you get)
red + (70 more (400 total) classes then you get)
advanced red + (70 more (470 total) classes then you get)
black + (provisional 300 more (770 total) classes then you get)
Black w/red bar

That accurate?

All of this said, I rolled with a yellow belt from his school at a seminar that was fairly knowledgeable. He showed me a few things. Although, he has since moved to a new state and now attends a Gracie Humaita school last I spoke with him.

I think that's a fair assessment...

Pittman got his BB from Carlos Machado at the same time Will Vandry and Travis Tooke did. It was on the podium I believe.

Travis Lutter was in that grouping as well...

I started BJJ training at Pittman's a long time ago...late 90's. I can say this...his belting system is unorthodox in the bjj world, but it's for a reason. He is VERY methodical...I don't believe there will ever be a class where he shows up and says, meh...let's go over this today. His classes are very coordinated...i believe his belting system is done for the exact reason you would think it's done...to retain students attention and keep the money flowing. Yes, he wants to create black belts, but yes...he also wants to make a good living.

(edit) - just wanted to add that his teaching is amazing. he has a knack of saturating your brain with concepts and reasoning of why you are doing what you're doing. if you ever get a chance to visit his school, do it.

 

[LaBrian]

So I go to an average of 4 classes a week + 1 open mat. At that rate in his belt system I'd be a Black belt in about 4 years, a little more.

Currently I've been training for a little over 2 years. Got my Blue at the beginning of the year. 2 years from now I might be a Purple, but I could easily still be a blue belt. I will still likely be getting smashed by every purple and above who got their belt before me. I would not want to wear a black belt at that point knowing that.

Seems like a ploy to keep the students who get their blue belt and quit after a year and a half 2 years around for 4 or 5. Then what? Where doe s a 4 year black belt compete at? Does he just not allow them too? I don't like this gimmick at all. If you are a good teacher and decent at business you'll have a school that makes you a decent living, no need to play games like this.

 

[kimble09]

So I go to an average of 4 classes a week + 1 open mat. At that rate in his belt system I'd be a Black belt in about 4 years, a little more.

Currently I've been training for a little over 2 years. Got my Blue at the beginning of the year. 2 years from now I might be a Purple, but I could easily still be a blue belt. I will still likely be getting smashed by every purple and above who got their belt before me. I would not want to wear a black belt at that point knowing that.

Seems like a ploy to keep the students who get their blue belt and quit after a year and a half 2 years around for 4 or 5. Then what? Where doe s a 4 year black belt compete at? Does he just not allow them too? I don't like this gimmick at all. If you are a good teacher and decent at business you'll have a school that makes you a decent living, no need to play games like this.

I think the difference is, he's not in it to create World Class BJJ players...he's there to do what he loves to do, teach martial arts. he's created a business plan that is working...however, it's not everyone's cup of tea.

 

[eviladam]

I think the difference is, he's not in it to create World Class BJJ players...he's there to do what he loves to do, teach martial arts. he's created a business plan that is working...however, it's not everyone's cup of tea.

this is not 'nam. this is bjj. there are rules.

 

[thugpoet]

this is not 'nam. this is bjj. there are rules.

Rules for what? How to run your business?

 

[CajunJudoka]

Travis Lutter was in that grouping as well...

Sorry about that I knew it was a Travis.

 

[JustSomeGuy]

Rules for what? How to run your business?

 

[LoopChoke]

Guessing it is:

white + (20 classes then you get)
yellow + (30 more (50 total) classes then you get)
orange + (40 more (90 total) classes then you get)
green + (40 more (130 total) classes then you get)
blue + (40 more (170 total) classes then you get)
purple + (40 more (210 total) classes then you get)
brown + (60 more (270 total) classes then you get)
advanced brown + (60 more (330 total) classes then you get)
red + (70 more (400 total) classes then you get)
advanced red + (70 more (470 total) classes then you get)
black + (provisional 300 more (770 total) classes then you get)
Black w/red bar

QUOTE]

this would be a pretty quick path to black belt. I have been training for almost 7 years. Most weeks I get anywhere from 6 to 10 classes a week. Under this structure, I would have gotten my black belt in 2.5 years.

 

[McClure]

Pittman might be legit - but he's creating a complex belt 'system' for no apparent reason. Anytime I hear someone say they give out belts to 'keep their students motivated' I wonder why good instruction and dynamic classes aren't enough?

 

[JakeHolden]

Crap just got really really real on this topic....

Pittman promoted some KID to a SEVENTH (YES 7TH) DEGREE Junior Black Belt in Brazilian Jiu-jitsu. It's all over the internet. Bruno Bastos Called him out on Facebook and tagged 140+ other black belts... Here is the link.

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/thread/2421825/7th-degree-junior-black-belt/?pc=23


BTW...You can get a "Pittman's BJJ Black Belt in 2 years, and then earn your red band in 6 months or less".....ummmmmmmm can anyone say McDojo. What a shame. This guy is supposed to be a legit BJJ player, but he's coin this kinda crap. Also heard everyone is really in question as to how he got his 5th degree black belt under Royce Gracie so quick after getting his 4th just a year or so before under Carlos Machado.

 

[0r3o]

Pittman might be legit - but he's creating a complex belt 'system' for no apparent reason. Anytime I hear someone say they give out belts to 'keep their students motivated' I wonder why good instruction and dynamic classes aren't enough?

Instant gratification. It's the American culture. No place in BJJ.

 

[tenktriangles]

Well, you can't base it on skill. If you base it on skill, you would have to promote people who came in already knowing what to do, like some asshole Judo guy that knows everything from traditional white-blue minus a couple sweeps.

I've been in karate schools when someone shows up with MT fights and a black belt in TKD and they make him line up with the white belts for 3 months until he officially tests for yellow. That's happened a couple times. They normally think it is funny and don't care, because they expected as much, but it really undermines the whole system.

But the point of a belt system isn't to show knowledge or skill, nor is it to help the instructor run class, especially when it takes years to get a color. It is to show pecking order to squash pissing contests, and your local black belt might not want to immediately let a new guy be ranked above his own guys who he likes.[/quote ] Completely disagree with this take on how belts work. Unless you're talking about some shitty TMA place.

 

[0r3o]

Crap just got really really real on this topic....

Pittman promoted some KID to a SEVENTH (YES 7TH) DEGREE Junior Black Belt in Brazilian Jiu-jitsu. It's all over the internet. Bruno Bastos Called him out on Facebook and tagged 140+ other black belts... Here is the link.

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/thread/2421825/7th-degree-junior-black-belt/?pc=23


BTW...You can get a "Pittman's BJJ Black Belt in 2 years, and then earn your red band in 6 months or less".....ummmmmmmm can anyone say McDojo. What a shame. This guy is supposed to be a legit BJJ player, but he's coin this kinda crap. Also heard everyone is really in question as to how he got his 5th degree black belt under Royce Gracie so quick after getting his 4th just a year or so before under Carlos Machado.

Royce has been known to hand out promotions quickly.

 

[JakeHolden]

Royce has been known to hand out promotions quickly.

Wow...extremely unfortunate. ON a side note, I heard also that Draculino and Royce have both stopped doing seminars at his facility because of the mcdojo BJJ belt stuff. May be a rumor but makes some serious sense considering they probably knew he was going to catch some serious flack.

Apparently Brandon Mullins won't even speak to him as he started doing the 10 or 12 rank karate belt system and all of the guys who spent 8+ years getting a black belt or maybe even just a brown belt have been really hacked by this as well.

I'd really love to know their opinion.

It stinks because I heard this guy was actually a good BJJ player.

You won't see me or my kids there...guaranteed.

 

[JakeHolden]

Instant gratification. It's the American culture. No place in BJJ.

So true. It seriously makes one of the most legitimate martial arts look like the next ATA tae kwon do school.

"Here's your black belt....just add water"

 

[0r3o]

Wow...extremely unfortunate. ON a side note, I heard also that Draculino and Royce have both stopped doing seminars at his facility because of the mcdojo BJJ belt stuff. May be a rumor but makes some serious sense considering they probably knew he was going to catch some serious flack.

Apparently Brandon Mullins won't even speak to him as he started doing the 10 or 12 rank karate belt system and all of the guys who spent 8+ years getting a black belt or maybe even just a brown belt have been really hacked by this as well.

I'd really love to know their opinion.

It stinks because I heard this guy was actually a good BJJ player.

You won't see me or my kids there...guaranteed.

What people will do for money ... it's sad to think that the sport we appreciate is being watered down by someone who is actually legit. I mean the Gracie online crap is bad, but this .... is dishonorable. I hope something is done about it.

 

[JakeHolden]

Guessing it is:

white + (20 classes then you get)
yellow + (30 more (50 total) classes then you get)
orange + (40 more (90 total) classes then you get)
green + (40 more (130 total) classes then you get)
blue + (40 more (170 total) classes then you get)
purple + (40 more (210 total) classes then you get)
brown + (60 more (270 total) classes then you get)
advanced brown + (60 more (330 total) classes then you get)
red + (70 more (400 total) classes then you get)
advanced red + (70 more (470 total) classes then you get)
black + (provisional 300 more (770 total) classes then you get)
Black w/red bar

QUOTE]

this would be a pretty quick path to black belt. I have been training for almost 7 years. Most weeks I get anywhere from 6 to 10 classes a week. Under this structure, I would have gotten my black belt in 2.5 years.

It's sick. I know guys who have been training 11 years - 15 years (off and on) who are still not even brown belts, but the clean the mats with people.

 

[JakeHolden]

What people will do for money ... it's sad to think that the sport we appreciate is being watered down by someone who is actually legit. I mean the Gracie online crap is bad, but this .... is dishonorable. I hope something is done about it.

Tell me about it.

I do know that Machado isn't putting up with it. He won't let Pittman's "Black Belts" wear higher than a blue in his facility or tournaments.

 

[JakeHolden]

Just found this also. It is a video of Pittman stating his exact M.O.

He says Martial Arts is about building black belts and great Instructors. http://www.jiujitsutimes.com/blog/kid-got-awarded-to-a-brazilian-jiu-jitsu-black-belt-7th-degree/

Wanna know what makes this EXTREMELY PATHETIC??? Here's his teacher, Carlos Machado, receiving his black/red and making sure that people know that Rank is NOT THE GOAL...BUT IS THE CONSEQUENCE of hard-life long - training

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pMjC0Mp-lME

How sad that this guy is literally about to ruin the way BJJ schools will be looked at and questioned forever.