King of Debt Trump: "Who the Hell Cares?"

[luckyshot]

When the subject of the exploding national deficit came up in front of an audience of donors at his Mar-a-Lago resort, Trumpo's response was simple: "Who the hell cares?"



Now, I have to say, this is one thing I actually agree with Trump on. I don't care about the national debt.

One thing I do care about, though, is GOP hypocrisy-- which, let's be honest, has basically become a redundant phrase. I seem to remember a certain political party-- and its uber "patriotic" base-- howling nonstop about debt for the entire Obama presidency.

(I ask for the millionth time, where is the Tea Party during the Trump presidency???)

The fact is that Obama, after bailing out a broken economy, worked hard to decrease the annual deficit. A trend that Trump has reversed-- during a booming economy.

David Pakman says it well: in practice, no politicians actually care about debt-- and neither do voters-- as long as we are going into debt for things THEY want.

So, the next time someone says, "But how can we afford X?" keep this in mind.

And if, after the Trump years, a Republican ever has the gall to mention the national debt as a pressing concern again, he should be immediately laughed out the conversation and (if an elected official) of office.

 

[TheGreatA]

Even if amassing debt has only become a talking point to discredit the political party in power, I still wouldn't cease to be concerned about it. Democrat or Republican.

We know that Trump has often ran his businesses like a drunken sailor navigates a ship, and was accustomed to declaring bankruptcy once he ran out of funds. He can't do that with the United States. Nation-states don't get "bailout money" once they're ran to the ground. You don't get to loan more money from sketchy operators forever (though China might be willing to extend its "benevolence" in exchange for certain things).

United States is the country that many other countries rely on, to stay afloat. If they go down, a whole lot of other shit goes down as well. That's how it has been every time that U.S. has suffered economically.

 

[MVelsor]

@44nutman

<45>

 

[RoosterHucklebuck]

I'd like to know why every chart that I see on this has different numbers. These 2 charts are showing a 1.4 trillion increase from the end of 2015 to the end of 2016.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/187867/public-debt-of-the-united-states-since-1990/

https://www.thebalance.com/national-debt-by-year-compared-to-gdp-and-major-events-3306287

 

[Trotsky]

I'd like to know why every chart that I see on this has different numbers. These 2 charts are showing a 1.4 trillion increase from the end of 2015 to the end of 2016.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/187867/public-debt-of-the-united-states-since-1990/

https://www.thebalance.com/national-debt-by-year-compared-to-gdp-and-major-events-3306287

His chart is on the deficit. Those charts are on the debt.

Those are different things.

 

[luckyshot]

He can't do that with the United States. Nation-states don't get "bailout money" once they're ran to the ground.

I'm not an economist... at all... but this is my bar-stool perspective:

Who is about to call in the US debt?

Around the world, virtually every country has significant debt. As far as I can tell, it only becomes a problem when some politician gets an austerity hard-on and decides to shrink the economy because of it.

I'm sure there's a lot more nuance that someone like @Jack V Savage can provide.

I'd like to know why every chart that I see on this has different numbers. These 2 charts are showing a 1.4 trillion increase from the end of 2015 to the end of 2016.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/187867/public-debt-of-the-united-states-since-1990/

https://www.thebalance.com/national-debt-by-year-compared-to-gdp-and-major-events-3306287

What @Trotsky said.

The deficit is the amount of money that is added to the national debt in a given year.

The national debt will always go up unless we have a budget surplus, and the last time that happened was during the Clinton years.

 

[Rek Rekington]

He's known as Deficit Donny for a reason.

 

[TheGreatA]

I'm not an economics expert... at all... but this is my bar stool perspective:

Who is about to call in the US debt?

Around the world, virtually every country has significant debt. As far as I can tell, it only becomes a problem when some politician gets an austerity hard-on and decides to shrink the economy because of it.

I'm sure there's a lot more nuance that someone like @Jack V Savage can provide.

Nations get an austerity hard-on usually when they find out that their expenses are becoming bloated and that they're no longer capable of paying back their debt, and thus they have to cut down from their services in order to pay up. It's not like "austerity" is a popular platform in any corner of the world, it's just a necessary evil at times.

For example Greece was literally forced by surrounding European nations to adopt an "austere", no-nonsense financial policy, so that it could eventually pay back its debts and bailouts.

 

[bobgeese]

Serious answer, I’m not sure anyone in Washington cares.

 

[AlexDB9]

@44nutman

<45>

That man checks twice under the bed and looks in the closet every night before bed for the deficit

 

[luckyshot]

Nations get an austerity hard-on usually when they find out that their expenses are becoming bloated and that they're no longer capable of paying back their debt, and thus they have to cut down from their services in order to pay up. It's not like "austerity" is a popular platform in any corner of the world, it's just a necessary evil at times.

For example Greece was literally forced by surrounding European nations to adopt an "austere", no-nonsense financial policy, so that it could eventually pay back its debts and bailouts.

Right. Greece was forced into austerity (and it's still not clear that this actually helped anyone) by the much richer and larger nations of the EU that basically owned its economy.

I will repeat my question: Who is going to call in the US's national debt?

 

[xcvbn]

Taking on debt is fine as long as you’re increasing GDP

Also, debt is an asset to those who own it. Like a mortgage: it’s our debt, the bank’s asset.

The problem here is that growth is nonexistent and the public isn’t actually getting anything out it like like a better educated populace or revamped infrastructure. What’s happening under trump, and what has been happening for decades, is the private sector is reaping all the rewards of running a debt while the public is left with the downside.

Socialism for the rich. Capitalism for everyone else.

 

[Javelina]

cut the aca (obamacare). that would cut out a huge amount of spending

 

[cincymma79]

Now using math
The tax cut doesn’t cover the deficit
So putting the levels back up and the doubling them won’t cover the spending
So which programs you cutting?
Completely eliminating the military budget doesn’t cover it
Which programs you cutting
Don’t be a bitch

 

[Strychnine]

Right. Greece was forced into austerity (and it's still not clear that this actually helped anyone) by the much richer and larger nations of the EU that basically owned its economy.

I will repeat my question: Who is going to call in the US's national debt?

If China calls in the debt it's owed because of us putting several wars on the credit card we're FOOKED. What's the option if they do? Borrow more? Get into a war? I'm no economist, so someone help me out.

 

[Strychnine]

cut the aca (obamacare). that would cut out a huge amount of spending

I say we cut the subsidies to the oil companies as they don't need them. They're among the most profitable companies on the planet, they don't need my money to support them.

 

[Jack V Savage]

Around the world, virtually every country has significant debt. As far as I can tell, it only becomes a problem when some politician gets an austerity hard-on and decides to shrink the economy because of it.

I'm sure there's a lot more nuance that someone like @Jack V Savage can provide.

Debt can cause problems in a few ways. More borrowing can drive up the price of borrowing, which could mean less private-sector investment, which can slow growth. Also, as we pay more to service the debt, that can put pressure on us to either spend less on other things or to tax more (to prevent the problem from spiraling). And debt can lead to inflation. There's no pending crisis, and we're not in any danger of not being able to make payments (and there's no benefit to buying up and retiring debt), but that doesn't mean that it's something we can totally ignore.

Here's the most relevant number:

As you can see, it recently started going in the wrong direction, but we have a long way to go before it hits the level that it was last a real problem.

If China calls in the debt it's owed because of us putting several wars on the credit card we're FOOKED. What's the option if they do? Borrow more? Get into a war? I'm no economist, so someone help me out.

Our debt is paid on a fixed schedule. There's no "calling it in." We just make payments on a regular schedule.

 

[bobgeese]

When the subject of the exploding national deficit came up in front of an audience of donors at his Mar-a-Lago resort, Trumpo's response was simple: "Who the hell cares?"



Now, I have to say, this is one thing I actually agree with Trump on. I don't care about the national debt.

One thing I do care about, though, is GOP hypocrisy-- which, let's be honest, has basically become a redundant phrase. And I seem to remember a certain political party-- and its uber "patriotic" base-- howling nonstop about debt for the entire Obama presidency.

(I ask for the millionth time, where is the Tea Party during the Trump presidency???)

The fact is that Obama, after bailing out a broken economy, worked hard to decrease the annual deficit. A trend that Trump has reversed-- during a booming economy.

David Pakman says it well: in practice, no politicians actually care about debt-- and neither do voters-- as long as we are going into debt for things THEY want.

So, the next time someone says, "But how can we afford X?" keep this in mind.

And if, after the Trump years, a Republican ever has the gall to mention the national debt as a pressing concern again, he should be immediately laughed out the conversation and (if an elected official) of office.

^^^ TFW Jack Savage ruins your deficit thread.


Again.

 

[TheGreatA]

Right. Greece was forced into austerity (and it's still not clear that this actually helped anyone) by the much richer and larger nations of the EU that basically owned its economy.

I will repeat my question: Who is going to call in the US's national debt?

While America is certainly in a more powerful position that Greece, you can't just assume that the rest of the world would ignore America, if it decided to suddenly not uphold the standards of paying back debt in due time, that it has demanded out of everybody else, in order to make world economy function according to its wishes, according to the principles that it believes will positively influence the rest of the world, as long as they are adhered to.

America deciding to say "fuck it, we'll just do whatever we want, and have an army big enough to prevent anyone else from making demands", will set a standard which others are likely to pattern themselves after. A more militaristic world order that is less dependent on world-wide trade, loaning from others and paying back in good faith, and more so on who has the biggest guns.

In a way, America has even less options than a Greece because the consequences of their actions are far more significant. Greece deciding to become North Korea, for all we care, wouldn't move the needle in any regard.

 

[Javelina]

I say we cut the subsidies to the oil companies as they don't need them. They're among the most profitable companies on the planet, they don't need my money to support them.

agreed