- Joined
- May 8, 2005
- Messages
- 2,226
- Reaction score
- 0
It's very low percentage. If you catch a guy with a kimura from bottom half, you have a major advantage in either strength or technique (or you caught him sleeping, that happens too). Kimura from bottom half is extremely EXTREMELY easy to counter with a kimura of your own, it's like the most basic move in catch wrestling.
Christ, I don't know how many ways I can say "that's not true."
But "that's not true." If you know what you are doing, it is normal percentage. I don't want to disagree with any catch wrestlers or anything (you know, with their well documented lineages of success :wink: ) but If you keep both your shoulders on the mat, you don't get counter-kimura'd, no matter what people will tell you.
The move works fine. The question is, what are you doing in bottom halfguard with no underhook? The situation is low percentage, not the technique.
If you weren't so quick to discredit other martial arts you might learn something.
Let's start over then. I am average strength and speed for a 170 lb 30 year old. Not only have I tapped people at my level with this move who were 240 pounds but I have also used this move to sweep black belts more then once.
I explained how I do it and once I get the kimura grip i can take my time so it is clearly not a speed game.
Not to mention that this thread has two vids by two black belts (one of whom competes at 145 IIRC) Showing how to pull the move off. I don't know what to tell you.
The move itself is reliable but the position is not. Just like when someone has your back and you do that ankle lock counter. The move does not require strength or speed. The move requires you to already be in a dangerous spot and as you get better you find yourself getting your back taken less so you practice that ankle lock less.
IMO this kimura is the same. The fact remains if you get the connection and turn to the correct angle than strength doesn't matter. Your opponents elbow is to flared to fight back and your lacked halfguard with the added rotation will unscrew your opponents posture.
Your logic is faulty, those cases are not analogous. If his single example is true it disproves the notion that the move always requires greater strength. No number of anecdotes of move x requiring strength prove that this is always the case, but a single counterexample disproves it.What does your anecdotal stories of what you've done have to do with anything?
I always hit kimuras on people who weigh less than me but can never get em on people who are super strong or weigh more than me. Therefore kimura requires strength. See what I did there?
This forum's own Oliver Geddes uses this move a lot and often on much bigger guys, peruse his video collection: YouTube - ‪Stalkachu's Channel‬‏Fact is, kimura especially from the bottom and in half guard where your opponent has leverage and gravity on his side DOES require a good deal of strength.
Best to use it as a sweep and then kimura from side control (when they defend tough)
Your logic is faulty, those cases are not analogous. If his single example is true it disproves the notion that the move always requires greater strength. No number of anecdotes of move x requiring strength prove that this is always the case, but a single counterexample disproves it.
This forum's own Oliver Geddes uses this move a lot and often on much bigger guys, peruse his video collection: YouTube - ‪Stalkachu's Channel‬‏
The fact remains if you get the connection and turn to the correct angle than strength doesn't matter.
IMO, this is the lowest level of jiu jitsu technique.
No it doesn't.
No. This technique does not rely on strength and speed. It is complemented by both like all techniques, but does not necessarily depend on them.
You are correct about "beating them to the punch." Jiu jitsu, in a way, is often about beating your opponent to the punch, but not in the head-to-head manner that you're thinking of. It's more like, I'm going to put them in a position to make them vulnerable to this move, or I'm going to distract them to set up this move...which will allow me to beat them to the punch (ie i hit the move regardless of whether he knows how to defend it or not.)
Except that its TREMENDOUSLY EASY TO SEE COMING, which makes your whole argument invalid.