Kicks Speed vs. Punches Speed

[Steakeater**]

Middle kicks and Low kicks are as fast as a jab cuz the distance is shorter plus the leg travels with higher speed than the arm which means a Kick will reach the Liver or the inside thigh faster or at the same time as a jab or straight or Cross reaches the head.

I think low kicks because the lead leg is in front of the head, so the jab has to move a longer distance.

 

[Steakeater**]

The last emails we exchanged with Professor Rhett Allain:





about him saying that the foot is faster than the whole leg is true because it was proven with Brandon Vera's kick, when he high kicked with the foot it was 0.03 sec faster than when he kicked with his shin.

You shouldve asked about the Thai kick. The way he was talking, he only mentioned food speed, leg length, and circular motion. He could probably be referring to TKD or karate kicks, which is VERY fast as it depends on footspeed via chambering, whereas a Thai kick has to pick up momentum with the hips

 

[aries]

I think low kicks because the lead leg is in front of the head, so the jab has to move a longer distance.

Another important point to bear in mind is that a thai kick traces an arc so a punch going in a straight line isn't a fair comparison. It should be front kick vs. cross and roundhouse vs. backfist or maybe hook.

So a round house kick whether low, middle or high has further to go then the straight distance between the start of the kick and the target point because it's not going in a straight line, it's tracing an arc.

 

[Sturmgewehr]

Another important point to bear in mind is that a thai kick traces an arc so a punch going in a straight line isn't a fair comparison. It should be front kick vs. cross and roundhouse vs. backfist or maybe hook.

So a round house kick whether low, middle or high has further to go then the straight distance between the start of the kick and the target point because it's not going in a straight line, it's tracing an arc.

Yup, I think a Jab should be compared to a front kick to the body and a cross to a low kick to the tigh whereas a Body shot from boxing to a body kick and stuff like that.

@ Steakeater:

I was asking him to make the comparison between the speed of a foot/leg = Kick and a fist/arm = punch.

He said that the videos that I have posted and the data pulled from there regarding the speed are true and very easy to measure.

I was asking him in General comparison between kick and punch not Muay Thai kick or Karate kick, that is a different story.

So the myth that a Punch is faster than a kick is not true since the leg has more speed and velocity and I think it accelerates faster.

 

[Hotora86]

Punches are obviously Faster when you punch someone to the head but what about Kicks, when you low kick someone or middle kicks, you see many Muay Thai Fighters kick so fast even with high kicks.

Also about the Power, Kicks should generate more power, I don't know how much power can a high kick have but a middle kick and a low kick must have a lot of power.

What do you people think???

The thing to remember in this comparison is RANGE. Despite a punch being (usually) faster than a kick, the kick's range is much greater. That's why we've seen some amazing KOs when a fighter leans back to avoid a punch while delivering a high kick - the punch is faster but doesn't reach while the kick does.

Example - you see Brodie throwing a punch, while Rory throws a low/middle kick then suddenly twisting it up high (Karate technique):

The only person I've ever seen to time a low kick and land a punch at the same time was Lyoto Machida - esp in his fight with Shogun. The kicks did a lot of damage in the end tho.

Here's Lyoto answering Rashad's kick almost immediately with a punch:

 

[Sturmgewehr]

The thing to remember in this comparison is RANGE. Despite a punch being (usually) faster than a kick, the kick's range is much greater. That's why we've seen some amazing KOs when a fighter leans back to avoid a punch while delivering a high kick - the punch is faster but doesn't reach while the kick does.

Example - you see Brodie throwing a punch, while Rory throws a low/middle kick then suddenly twisting it up high (Karate technique):

The only person I've ever seen to time a low kick and land a punch at the same time was Lyoto Machida - esp in his fight with Shogun. The kicks did a lot of damage in the end tho.

Here's Lyoto answering Rashad's kick almost immediately with a punch:

Interesting thought, I tend to agree with what u said when talking about range.

But when u talking about Faster we have to know what do you mean by faster, are you talking faster in terms of Seconds like a high kick will be delivered in 0.25 and a Punch at 0.1 or faster like Miles per hour.

I highly doubt that a punch is faster than a low kick and as Steakeater said a low kick would be faster than a jab because the front leg is in front of the head and even though the kick has to make an arch the speed of the kick which is much higher than the speed of the punch will make up for it.

Kicks were measured to be faster than punches in terms of Miles per Hour, WAY faster than punches, while a punch has the speed of 30 - 40 miles per hour the slowest kick measured was 70 mph and the fastest 135 mph.

Those Machida kicks are simply amazing, the dude is a freak.

 

[tru3f4n]

 

[Gandhi]

In my opinion a skilled fighter's punches and kicks travel at about the same speed. Actually the kicks may be traveling faster at point of impact of because the longer distance allows more speed buildup.

The problem though is that a kick travels a much longer distance, so even though it may be traveling at the same speed or faster, it still takes longer than a punch to travel from point A to B. So if your right cross takes .10 sec to travel 2', and your right high kick traveling at the same speed will take .30 sec to travel 6' to the same point of impact.

Because of the longer time in the technique it is easier to see it coming, and makes it appear slower to the eye. Plus, normally there is movement more before a kick is thrown than a punch. Comparing a jab to a teep, you'd have to start your jab with you left arm outstretched overhead, drop it to your shoulder and then fire the jab. Making it travel a lot longer, less direct path. So while your jab may be traveling the same speed, it takes considerably longer time to target.

Did that make any sense? Or am I rambling?

Well what you said is right but speed means time to complete the move from start to finish - so kicks are slower - but its not just about speed - its also about setting things up, changing the level of attack, confusing the opponent. For a basic, a leg kick following a bunch of head punches has a better chance than landing than say another head punch, why? Surprise and off balancing your opponent, not speed.

 

[Sturmgewehr]

Well what you said is right but speed means time to complete the move from start to finish - so kicks are slower - but its not just about speed - its also about setting things up, changing the level of attack, confusing the opponent. For a basic, a leg kick following a bunch of head punches has a better chance than landing than say another head punch, why? Surprise and off balancing your opponent, not speed.

Kicks are not slower in Terms of speed ( Miles per hour ) kicks are way faster in that sense, the boxers hand measured 40 Miles per hour at most whereas kicks 100 miles even 135 miles per hour.

Kicks are slow in the sense of Launching to connect since a high kick has to travel at least 4 to 5 times longer distance than a punch.

Low kicks are a totally different story, as someone said before they are as fast as a jab and maybe faster since the lead leg is closer than your head to the body of your opponent taking into account kick's speed of 100 something miles per hour it would get there way faster.

 

[Sturmgewehr]

OK so in that Sport and Science Video where the Former Middle Weight Boxing Champ Chad Dawson punched 26 times in 5 seconds.



He did punch 26 times in 5 seconds BUT he did it with both hands, if u see the result you will see that he can punch 5.2 times in 1 second but with BOTH HANDS if u divide that by 2 it will be 2.6 punches in 1 Second.

in this Video Senchai kicks 50 times in 22 seconds of course by one leg, he throws MIDDLE KICKS.



this means Senchai can kick 2.27 times in 1 Second, not big difference from Boxer's speed.

Another thing is, taking into account that the boxer was throwing straight punches to the head of the dummy which is a very close distance compared to Senchai's Middle Kicks which had to travel 2 to 3 times more to the target than Chad's Punch.

In other words even though the Boxer had a shorter distance to punch he punched 2.6 times in one second whereas Senchai kicked 2.27 in 2 second.

Clearly said a kick is faster in Terms of Velocity, speed ( MPH ) and most probably a kick has a higher acceleration.

Punches are faster due to the fact that they have shorter distance to travel and the target the punch needs to reach is very close in the case of Senchai's vs Chad's where Chad's punch had at least 2 - 3 times less distance to travel than Senchai's Kick.

 

[Inquisitus]

in this Video Senchai kicks 50 times in 22 seconds of course by one leg, he throws MIDDLE KICKS.



this means Senchai can kick 2.27 times in 1 Second, not big difference from Boxer's speed.

You're taking the average time it takes per kick which means he gets into the rhythm of the movement. However, this isn't a valid measurement of the first kick which will take longer than when he's repeating the kick. You also see him start in the middle of the motion of the kick not from guard position. He's already shifted his weight in preparation to kick.

Dawson starts from a static guard and you can see him bend his legs to spring forward.

I don't think this is a valid comparison of jab vs kick.

 

[Sturmgewehr]

You're taking the average time it takes per kick which means he gets into the rhythm of the movement. However, this isn't a valid measurement of the first kick which will take longer than when he's repeating the kick. You also see him start in the middle of the motion of the kick not from guard position. He's already shifted his weight in preparation to kick.

Dawson starts from a static guard and you can see him bend his legs to spring forward.

I don't think this is a valid comparison of jab vs kick.

Have u seen how Buakaw throws multiple kicks ???

when he kicks his leg touches the ground where he gets his power.

2nd, we are talking about the speed of a kick.

Watch Minute 01:05 where he kicks Souwer 2 times in a raw just like Senchai kicks the pad



Dawson doesn't start from a Static Point, Dawson starts as much from a Static point as Senchai Starts, plus where did u see the jab there ?? those punches looked more like Straight right and Straight left not a jab.

The first punch he threw was a jab, well at least kind of a jab the barrage of punches weren't jabs they were more of straight punches.

Plus Sport Science labs measured Chad Dwason's punch 30 ft/s which is something like not even 30 miles per hour whereas they measured Tae Kuan Do Kick with 135 MPH, muay THai kick 130 miles per hour and so on.

Plus the part where u said that Senchai got into a Rhythm could be said the same for Chad Dwason cuz he got in the rhythm as well and the rest of punches don't show the actual speed and we know what you said pretty much makes no sense, cuz the first punch/kick usually has more power and speed the more u throw kicks the more tired u get and u slow down.

plus the barrage of kicks by Senchai was just a video to show my point that kicks are very fast, if he can kick the 10th time fast imagine how he can kick the first time.

Plus no one ever will kick u that fast or throw that many kicks, the most I have seen were from Buakaw when backing up from some fighter I think he kicked him 5 times or 4 times and he did it just the way Senchai does it in the vid.

Plus even boxers don't punch like that, boxers don't just go and throw 26 punches in 5 seconds, they pick their shots, well they throw many punches but not 26 straight punches, that would be very predictable.

Plus kicks are set up with punches, even if they are not set up when was the last time u saw someone throw 50 kicks in 22 seconds, at most 2 kicks in a row.

The kicks were good and the comparison was just great.

02:55 ====> 3 kicks in a raw the way Senchai Executed his kicks

 

[Sturmgewehr]

What happened everyone?? I thought people would be very interested in discussing a topic like this.

Usually people that claimed that Punches are faster and kicks are Slow.

 

[xilliun]

You're comparing speeds from two different fighters in two different weight classes.

Saying that, wasn't there a test done that determined Ali's punch being faster then human reaction time? I swear I've seen it, I'll see if I can find an article.

 

[MisterT]

OK so in that Sport and Science Video where the Former Middle Weight Boxing Champ Chad Dawson punched 26 times in 5 seconds.



He did punch 26 times in 5 seconds BUT he did it with both hands, if u see the result you will see that he can punch 5.2 times in 1 second but with BOTH HANDS if u divide that by 2 it will be 2.6 punches in 1 Second.

in this Video Senchai kicks 50 times in 22 seconds of course by one leg, he throws MIDDLE KICKS.



this means Senchai can kick 2.27 times in 1 Second, not big difference from Boxer's speed.

Another thing is, taking into account that the boxer was throwing straight punches to the head of the dummy which is a very close distance compared to Senchai's Middle Kicks which had to travel 2 to 3 times more to the target than Chad's Punch.

In other words even though the Boxer had a shorter distance to punch he punched 2.6 times in one second whereas Senchai kicked 2.27 in 2 second.

Clearly said a kick is faster in Terms of Velocity, speed ( MPH ) and most probably a kick has a higher acceleration.

Punches are faster due to the fact that they have shorter distance to travel and the target the punch needs to reach is very close in the case of Senchai's vs Chad's where Chad's punch had at least 2 - 3 times less distance to travel than Senchai's Kick.

That's a flawed analysis.

Saenchai fights at 130 lbs. Dawson fights at light heavyweight.

A better analysis would be if you compared Saenchai to Amir Khan, a 140 lb boxer, who threw 400 uppercuts in 60 seconds (that's an average of 6.67 punches a second). And, for the record, those were uppercuts not jabs/crosses which go in a straight line.



In general, kicks tend to be slower due to:

- larger distance to travel
- the fact that they have to travel in a roundhouse fashion (as opposed to a linear motion)

There are exceptions (such as buakaw etc) who have honed their kicks to the point where they rival the punch speed of some fighters, but, overall, punches tend to be slightly faster.

 

[Snubnoze707]

I think you also have to look at distancing. If both fighters are standing right outside of the rim, the kick is going to be faster because it's already within range where as the puncher has to make a step forward as he throws the punch to be able to get to his range.

There's so many variables.

 

[Sturmgewehr]

You're comparing speeds from two different fighters in two different weight classes.

Saying that, wasn't there a test done that determined Ali's punch being faster then human reaction time? I swear I've seen it, I'll see if I can find an article.

Lol that is a paradox.

that is like saying Waking up before waking up.

Faster than the average reaction time of a normal human being that sits in front of the TV and drinks beer.

Plus being able to react faster than a normal human reaction time doesn't mean the punch is faster, legs are usually able to react faster, the 100 meters sprinters have the fastest reaction.

Even if the Legs don't react the fastest still they are faster, the fact that a rabbit can react faster than a Leopard doesn't mean that he is faster than the Leopard, or the fastest reaction time of a living being is that of a Fly I think house fly still the house fly is not faster than the Leopard.

A blink is probably the fastest human reaction - maybe 1/10 of a second.

Fingertip Reaction Time

In the Olympic 100 m final, Bolt broke new ground, winning in 9.69 s (unofficially 9.683 s) with a reaction time of 0.165 s.

Taking into account that Bolt reacts with his legs with are way bigger than arms and for something 4 times bigger than an Arm Reacting in 0.16 is very fast.

Average Human reaction time is 0.2 it says it is somewhere between 0.15 to 0.3 sec so I take it in the middle someone can react in 0.15 someone in 0.3, 0.2 would be the average human reaction time.

Let's say Muhammed Ali or the fastest Boxer can punch 0.1, there is no way someone to react as fast as that since ur nervous system needs time to react and I read somewhere that it is impossible to react faster than 0.1.

Flies react 0.04 and that is the fastest creature that can react to a situation.

Still I think if we had something to measure that a low kick would be as fast or a kick to the inner thigh by Senchai would be as fast 0.1.

that still doesn't mean that a punch is faster than a kick, as I said Flies are the living beings that react the fastest but they are not faster than the Leopard.

also Look at the videos I posted where they measured those Kickboxer's kick speed who were same weight of Chad Dwason's and see CD punch speed who was kind of a Jab/Straight punch.

A better analysis would be if you compared Saenchai to Amir Khan, a 140 lb boxer, who threw 400 uppercuts in 60 seconds (that's an average of 6.67 punches a second). And, for the record, those were uppercuts not jabs/crosses which go in a straight line.

We don't have to Compare Senchai to Amir khan.

Go back and check this video, these guys are the same weight as Chad Dwason's weight and they still kicked way faster than Chad Dwasons Jab with 30 ft/s which is something between 20 - 30 MPH where the slowest kick was measured 70 mph.

Prove me Amir Khan threw 400 Uppercuts in 60 Seconds.

let's see it, I am not saying it didn't happen I just wanna see it.

plus even if he did the Uppercut same as the jab has at least 2 times shorter distance to travel than Senchai's Middle kick.

The Distance from Khan's guard to the head is 2 times at least shorter than the distance from Senchai's leg where it had to travel from the ground in arch motion like the uppercut to the guys abdomen.

50 Kicks in 22 seconds = 136 Kicks in 60 Seconds taking into account that the distance that the kick has to travel 2 - 3 times more u will get the result.

Plus I bet u 100% that Amir Khan used his both Hands to Throw those 400 Uppercuts whereas Senchai used only one leg, so 136 Kicks in 60 Seconds with one leg 400 Punches with 2 hands divided by 2 makes 200 Punches in 60 sec which means 3.3 Punches in a Second with only one hand whereas Senchai's rate would be 2.27 Kicks per second still way faster than Khans Uppercut who had to travel AT LEAST 2 - 3 times shorter distance than Senchai's Kick.

Let me see Amir Khan's video or a pic to see what is his punchind distance compared to Senchai's kicking distance and we will make an approximate calculation.

Plus Kicks don't work like Punches in Bunches, kicks work one by one and there is no one that will throw too many kicks at once, so that round house kick to the mid section Senchai was throwing is Faster than Amir Khan's Upper cuts.

Chad Dwason's Jab was at most 30 Mph whereas that Karate guys front kick was 70 mph. I think they were both approximately the same weight.

In general, kicks tend to be slower due to:

- larger distance to travel
- the fact that they have to travel in a roundhouse fashion (as opposed to a linear motion)

you make no sense, you saying the measured 130 Miles of the Muay Thai Kickboxer are slower than Chad Dwasons 30 Mph ????

not quite the case.

if a car traveling 2 miles with the speed of 30 miles per hour got faster to the target than a car traveling 130 mph a distance of 40 miles doesn't mean that the first car is faster it just means it has less distance to travel that is why it got there first otherwise the second car is faster as u can see the numbers.

a Kick is more powerful there is more power behind it which will make it travel faster and it has a longer distance to go which will get the chance to accelerate more, simple physics.

Plus I don't have to prove this, measurements prove it, they used speedometers and accelerometers to measure the speed of the kick.

There are exceptions (such as buakaw etc) who have honed their kicks to the point where they rival the punch speed of some fighters, but, overall, punches tend to be slightly faster.

So Buakaw can kick faster than Senchai ??? that is funny.

 

[MisterT]

You're trying to prove that kicks are faster than punches in a scientific way but you're method is simply incorrect. There are too many variables that you're not accounting for.

Put it this way:

Lets say we cloned Saenchai. We would have two subjects that weigh the same, have the same level of athleticism, same technique, etc.

If you make them stand in their fighting stances and tell the first subject to throw a kick (lets say a low kick) and tell the second subject to throw a punch (lets say a right cross), and both fighters start to throw their technique AT THE SAME TIME, the cross will land first.

You're getting caught up in the "how many mph does the kick/punch travel" when, in reality, as mentioned earlier, those punches/kicks are being thrown in a rhythm and thus those figures aren't completely accurate.

You're trying to convince people that just because the karate guy's kick goes at 70 mph and the MT guy's kick goes at 130 mph, it proves that kicks land faster than punches. This is wrong. The higher speed of the kicks justifies and explains why the kicks are more powerful than punches. It DOES NOT mean that they will land faster than a punch. Instead of digging up examples of sports science shows and kickboxers hitting dummies/pads, why don't you look up examples of when a kickboxer's kick landed before another kickboxer's punches (in a fight).

Take this gif for example:

Alves and Howard represent two fighters with similar levels of athleticism, same weight, etc. Howard threw the kick and Alves reacted by throwing the right cross. Despite the fact that Howard's kick started first, Alves' right cross still managed to land before the kick.

you make no sense, you saying the measured 130 Miles of the Muay Thai Kickboxer are slower than Chad Dwasons 30 Mph ????

You misunderstood me. I'm not saying that a punch accelerates faster than a punch. I'm just saying that a kick is slower in arriving to its target than a punch is.

A kick may have a faster absolute speed than a punch, but that does not mean that the punch will land first. Who do you think will win a race: a guy who only runs at 5 mph but is 10 feet away from the finish line, or a guy who runs at 10 mph but is 50 feet away from the finish line? The punch has a shorter distance to travel and thus usually lands first.

Go back and check this video, these guys are the same weight as Chad Dwason's weight and they still kicked way faster than Chad Dwasons Jab with 30 ft/s which is something between 20 - 30 MPH where the slowest kick was measured 70 mph.

Again, you're assuming that Dawson is equal to the kickboxing guys just because they "are the same weight".

Mike Tyson and David Tua were approximately the same weight and yet there was a vast difference in their level of athleticism. Dawson was never particularly fast or athletic. As Snubnoze pointed out above, there's too many variables involved for me or you to simply use these sports science clips. I could put Manny Pacquiao (at 145 lbs) on that show and have him go up against a Leonard Garcia and claim that "oh, Pacquiao's punch went faster than Garcia's kick). It would be a flawed analysis on account of the disparity in their levels of athleticism.

Plus I bet u 100% that Amir Khan used his both Hands to Throw those 400 Uppercuts whereas Senchai used only one leg, so 136 Kicks in 60 Seconds with one leg 400 Punches with 2 hands divided by 2 makes 200 Punches in 60 sec which means 3.3 Punches in a Second with only one hand whereas Senchai's rate would be 2.27 Kicks per second still way faster than Khans Uppercut who had to travel AT LEAST 2 - 3 times shorter distance than Senchai's Kick.

Here's the vid of Khan throwing those uppercuts:
Kammy Do It? Boxing | Sky Sports | Video | Boxing

Yes, he's using both hands, and yes, he has a shorter distance to travel but that's the entire point. A punch will land faster than a kick for that very reason.

So Buakaw can kick faster than Senchai ??? that is funny.

????

When the hell did I say that Buakaw kicks faster than Senchai?

 

[Sturmgewehr]

Lets say we cloned Saenchai. We would have two subjects that weigh the same, have the same level of athleticism, same technique, etc.

If you make them stand in their fighting stances and tell the first subject to throw a kick (lets say a low kick) and tell the second subject to throw a punch (lets say a right cross), and both fighters start to throw their technique AT THE SAME TIME, the cross will land first.

of course that is because the punch compared to the low kick will have 2 times less distance to travel, even though I tend to think when watching fights that low kicks to the shin and inside thigh low kicks seem to be faster than punches.

You're getting caught up in the "how many mph does the kick/punch travel" when, in reality, as mentioned earlier, those punches/kicks are being thrown in a rhythm and thus those figures aren't completely accurate.

So was Chad Dwason in a Rhythm when throwing 26 punches in 5 seconds and so what Amir Khan when Throwing those uppercuts in a rhythm.

That doesn't have to mean much cuz in Chad Dwason's case where he threw a SINGLE jab/straight his speed was measured 30 mph let's say 35 mph since I was reading that Speedometers and accelerometers have a error coefficient of 5 mph+-

Still in this Video where those guys' kicks are measured they didn't throw the kicks in Rhythem, they threw single kicks just like Chad Dwason did in this video where he threw 1 single punch where it was measured to be 30 something ft/second and then again they made him throw a barrage of punches but lets say that doesn't count since they were rhythmic, still even when they threw single strikes Kickboxers kicks were measured to have a WAY higher speed than Chad Dwason's Punch and these guys are pretty much the same weight.

You're trying to convince people that just because the karate guy's kick goes at 70 mph and the MT guy's kick goes at 130 mph, it proves that kicks land faster than punches. This is wrong. The higher speed of the kicks justifies and explains why the kicks are more powerful than punches. It DOES NOT mean that they will land faster than a punch. Instead of digging up examples of sports science shows and kickboxers hitting dummies/pads, why don't you look up examples of when a kickboxer's kick landed before another kickboxer's punches (in a fight).

I agree with the Red Part, that is true.

Usually when a middle kick is thrown or a low kick is thrown it is fast and it is not very common to see the other guy countering him immediately even if he tries still the kick has a longer reach and in order the other guy to land the punch he needs to step in and by that time the Kickboxer steps out, I have trained kickboxing and we trained that when throwing low kicks or middle kicks we were supposed to move to the left and back so we don't get countered, of course someone really fast will counter u but usually when Kickboxers throw a kick they move a step back to the left so we don't get countered.

Take this gif for example:

Alves and Howard represent two fighters with similar levels of athleticism, same weight, etc. Howard threw the kick and Alves reacted by throwing the right cross. Despite the fact that Howard's kick started first, Alves' right cross still managed to land before the kick.

That is because Alves is a way better fighter than Haward, can't compare Alves to Haward, a good example would be parts taken from fights like Rampage vs Rashad or Machida vs Shogun, Alves and Haward is not an adequate example, plus howard is not known for his flashy kicks, much more like Alves is the better kicker in that match, I believe Alves to have better kicks than Howard and I know Alves is more talented and a better fighter than Haward.

You misunderstood me. I'm not saying that a punch accelerates faster than a punch. I'm just saying that a kick is slower in arriving to its target than a punch is.

yeah I agree due to the kick having more distance to travel.

A kick may have a faster absolute speed than a punch, but that does not mean that the kick will land first. Who do you think will win a race: a guy who only runs at 5 mph but is 10 feet away from the finish line, or a guy who runs at 10 mph but is 50 feet away from the finish line? The punch has a shorter distance to travel and thus usually lands first.

I think I gave a similar example to this.

Again, you're assuming that Dawson is equal to the kickboxing guys just because they "are the same weight".

Dwason in the boxing world is 10 times more relevant than that guy who threw the 130 miles per hour Muay Thai Kick, who the hell is that guy, no one knows him.

Dwason in the Boxing world is way more relevant than Levi Kurtovich who is a no one in the world of Muay Thai, now imagine how fast would throw someone more relevant in the world of Muay Thai.

And I think they are the same weight if not the Kickboxers weighting more. I read somewhere Levi Kurtovich weights 170 pounds.

Mike Tyson and David Tua were approximately the same weight and yet there was a vast difference in their level of athleticism. Dawson was never particularly fast or athletic. As Snubnoze pointed out above, there's too many variables involved for me or you to simply use these sports science clips. I could put Manny Pacquiao (at 145 lbs) on that show and have him go up against a Leonard Garcia and claim that "oh, Pacquiao's punch went faster than Garcia's kick). It would be a flawed analysis on account of the disparity in their levels of athleticism.

That is true, and Levi Kurtovich in comparison to Chad Dwason who was the former WBC, IBF & IBO light heavyweight champion and is still 29 years old, pretty young, is a no one in the world of Muay Thai and still managed to Kick faster than Dwasons punch ( in terms of Speed, velocity and acceleration ).

Here's the vid of Khan throwing those uppercuts:
Kammy Do It? Boxing | Sky Sports | Video | Boxing
Yes, he's using both hands, and yes, he has a shorter distance to travel but that's the entire point. A punch will land faster than a kick for that very reason.

Impressive

When the hell did I say that Buakaw kicks faster than Senchai?

Maybe I got you wrong and you should have been more precise about what you said.

 

[Sturmgewehr]

Another Study done in Cleveland State University by High Speed cameras and stuff like that:

here is the link:

grandmaster / Physics and Karate

I will quote only the most important part and ignore the bullshit in the first paragraph:

Using science to analyze martial arts is something I hope to incorporate into a martial arts training center (hombu) some day.
This center would represent a plethora of traditional martial arts centered around Seiyo Shorin-Ryu karate and kobudo and be
open to other disciplines such as jujutsu, iado, aikido, traditional judo, kyudo, ninjutsu, etc.; include a hall of fame and
museum dedicated to traditional martial arts; a meditation and tai chi classroom where one can retire to meditate and train in
related activities including tea ceremony (chaji), aerobics, tai chi, etc; and include a certifying board for martial arts
instructors around the world.
My so-called ‘dream’ hombu science center would have the ability to measure one’s focus and power and analyze techniques
using striking surfaces that enclose accelerometers and employ high-speed video cameras to record velocity, acceleration,
and balance. This facility would enable a person to reach full potential in less time than conventional training methods, and
would have potential to develop karateka into powerful (physically and mentally) martial artists.
It turns out that National Geographic may have tapped into my dreams without my knowledge (lol). A recent program aired by
NG used scientific methods to measure extraordinary focus by some martial artists. The program (Fight Science) was able to
demonstrate that some martial artists have the ability to strike 4 times faster than a snake, generate forces 3 times greater
than a sledgehammer, and generate velocities 2 times faster than a blink of an eye!
It was shown that a well-trained martial artist can generate >1000 G’s of acceleration with a tsuki (punch) or empi (elbow)
uchi (strike). This is equivalent to >2000 lbs of force. To put this into more visual terms, NG reported that this is essentially
equal to some forces generated in a 35 mph auto collision! Thus, when such techniques are completed with proper technique
and focus, one can generate enough force to break a 4 to 5 foot stack of bricks with their bare fist or elbow, and do other
superhuman feats, such as kill a bull with a tsuki as demonstrated by the late Mas Oyama.
Have you ever wondered what kind of force would be necessary to break a rock with a bare hand (shuto), a brick with bare
knuckles or a rock or board with your head. What would it take to break a horn off a living bull with a shuto (which was
demonstrated by the late Mas Oyama, Soke)? Or more importantly, how can a much smaller person defeat a person twice
his/hers size?
Florin Diacu discusses the forces of a traditional karate punch in an article entitled “On the Dynamics of Karate” and answers
some of these questions and provides some very interesting concepts supported by physics that I would like to review.
According to Diacu, the energy generated by a punch (zuki) is best examined using the following:
ET = EP + EK + ER
Total energy = potential energy + kinetic energy + rotational energy
Which can be written as: E=mgh + 0.5mv2 + 0.5mr2w2
This formula considers potential energy, kinetic energy and rotational energy generated by a zuki. Here, m is the mass used
in a punch, g is the gravitational constant {32 feet/second2 (9.8 m/s2)}, h is the difference in height from the initial position
to a position where the zuki strikes its target {when stepping forward the body may drop 6 to 8 inches (15 to 20 cm) while
delivering a punch according to Diacu}, v is the velocity of the fist, r is the radius of the fist, and w is the angular velocity of
the fist’s rotation (something that is uniquely characteristic of a karate punch).
First, it should be obvious that the larger the person, the more powerful the punch as long as all other factors are the same
(which they of course are not). Thus, (1) the greater the mass, the greater the energy (energy increases linearly with mass).
So let’s take a karate-ka by the name of Toshio. If Toshio is twice as heavy as another karate-ka by the name of Miagi, then
Toshio has the potential to produce twice the amount of energy as Miagi based on this single variable.
However, we do not put all of our mass into a punch, and the mass of the punch may better be represented by the mass of
one’s arm. Since a typical arm is only about 10% of our body weight, this dramatically decreases the amount of mass used in
a punch (this is a simplification – because when we use a proper rooted stance to the floor or ground, or move forward using
much of our body weight in a punch, this will also increase the energy of a punch). Even so, lets just consider the arm as the
only mass that is involved in a punch. So if Toshio weighs 155 pounds and Miagi weighs 100 pounds, then Miagi must punch
only 18% faster to achieve the same force as Miagi (if all other factors are the same). This is not a great amount considering
such a great difference in body weight. A karate ka learns through proper technique to get more mass into a punch with
proper hip rotation as well as by moving his/hers body forward with the punch.
(2) The lower the drop, the greater the energy, by remaining at the same height (h) when punching will result in energy
conservation. This is one reason why we work hard in karate to keep our shoulders at the same height while stepping
forward. This relates to the first part of the formula, which considers potential energy, which is a substantial source of
energy since it considers the entire mass of the body.
(3) The greater the velocity, the greater the energy. The greater the velocity of the fist, the greater the amount of energy
generated. This is very important in that velocity quadratically influences energy (by a factor of four)! This means that if
Toshio and Miagi have the same mass and Toshio’s punch is twice as fast as Miagi’s, then Toshio can produce 4 times more
energy with his/her punch! This is one of several reasons why karate punches and kicks are so effective. When breaking
rocks and boards, maximum velocity is achieved at the point of impact producing maximum force. Based on high-speed
movies taken of black belts at Cleveland State University the average speed of their punches was about 23 feet/s (7m/s).
(4) The effect of fist rotation is negligible. The effect of fist rotation is negligible in increasing the overall energy of a punch
according to Diacu. This is not surprising as the purpose of the rotation is primarily for efficiency of punching and for linear
movement in order to obtain the greatest possible velocity over the shortest amount of distance.
To show the effects of fist rotation (rotational energy), Diacu describes a person weighing 155 pounds. This black belt will
have arm weight of 15.5 pounds, an average punching speed of 23 feet/second at the point of impact, a fist rotation of 5 π
rad/second (the fist rotates 180O in 0.2 seconds), a fist radius of 1.2 inches, and a drop in height of about 7.9 inches which
will result in
EP (Potential Energy) = 137.2 J (joule; 1 J=0.239 calories) {100 ft-pounds}
EK = 171.5 J {130 foot-pounds}
ER= 0.78 J {0.58 foot-pounds}
ET=309.48 J {228.3 foot-pounds}
This shows that rotational energy accounts for only 0.25% (one-quarter of a percentage point) of the total energy – a very
small amount!
(5) The greater the distance, the greater the time. This should be obvious that it takes more time to travel a greater distance.
This implies that a person’s punch can reach its target faster than a kick due to the shorter distance that it needs to travel.
However, kicks can generate more power. The leg, which is longer than the arm, has more mass and a little more time to
accelerate. A leg may weigh as much as 20% of the body mass.
According to Diacu, a typical black belt’s zuki may have a velocity of 18.7 to 32.5 feet/second (5.7 - 9.9 m/s), whereas a typical
mae geri may have a velocity of 32.5 to 47.2 feet/second (9.9 - 14.4 m/s), a shuto 32.8 to 45.9 feet/second (10 - 14 m/s),
maewashigeri 31.2 to 36.1 feet/second (9.5 - 11 m/s), and ushirogeri about 34.8 to 39.4 feet/second (10.6 - 12 m/s).
(6) Kicks may generate more energy than a punch For a person of 155 pounds (70 kg) may generate as much as 228.3 footpounds
of total energy with a punch. But how much can this person generate with a kick?
Assuming a leg may be 20% of the total body weight. Thus for a 155 pound person, a leg is about 30.9 pounds (14 kg) and a
good kick may have a velocity of 39.4 feet (12m/s). Thus the kinetic energy of the kick alone is 743.5 foot-pounds (1008J). This
is more than 4 times the kinetic energy of a punch by the same black belt.
Conclusions. So why don’t we use more kicks than punches? The distance is shorter to the target using a punch, kicks are
also more difficult to sight on a target, they are easier to avoid, and if properly done, some punches can generate a
tremendous amount of knockdown power when done correctly with the right amount of snap, focus, hip rotation, and balance.
If some upcoming issues of the newsletter, I will discuss some other facts of karate and physics.