KICKBOXER: VENGEANCE and RETALIATION

[The good dog]

Okay, watching this now. . .

First observation: GSP was clearly not ready for USADA when he was filming this.

Haha enjoy...

 

[taurus]

Watched it, only for the story. Meh.

I think their strategy was: stick a few MMA fighters in there, JCVD, casual sex scene and hope to have the movie paid off. It's bad.

Surprisingly, the biggest gripe i have with this movie is the inclusion of swords and so many non MT moves and techniques in a (what should've been) MT fight. Just couldn't wrap my head around that. Also, Tong Po's hype man saying "Can i get an amen?". No, you can't, due to statistics alone.

That said, it's worth to watch the movie just for the main actor dance scene/blooper at the end, him imitating JCVS infamous dance in the original. Priceless.

I'm prepared to bet that I will agree with the negative reviews when I eventually see this. I get the impression that this is for people who also liked the Expendables series. I was not one of those.

Hey, i resent that. The expendables was/were enjoyable. They did not take themselves too seriously, but some things just made sense. In this movie, almost nothing makes sense.

EDIT: lol at the results of the poll.

 

[taurus]

Do you not know who those people are? Werdum and Jacare are the only "BJJ guys" on that list. And they've developed great striking. Wand and Shogun, meanwhile, are two of the fiercest MT exponents in MMA history, while Babalu was a champion MT fighter before he ever hooked up with Ruas and started MMA. And regardless, they're all far more "legit" than Batista.

In all honesty, i thought Batista would look much worse. Sure, there were a lot of fast cuts and angle changes every time he fought so stuntman probably did most of the work, but it didn't look THAT bad.

 

[Guestx]

All right, I watched this last night. Here are a few spoiler-free thoughts:

* Alain Moussi takes over Van Damme's original role. I didn't hate him, but I didn't love him either. He was just okay. He's got the physical skills and got a pretty good physique, but he just doesn't have the Van Damme charisma. He's also got what appears to be one off-center nipple, which distracted me.

* The guy who plays Eric Sloan really doesn't get much screen time but I thought he was all right. No real problems there.

* At one point I saw an elephant and I kept waiting for Tony Jaa to show up during that scene.

* There are a fair amount of scenes where characters speak in Thai. Not sure if it was just my file, but the sub track didn't have translations for the Thai parts. I still wonder what I was missing in the dialogue. Probably nothing too important, but it did disturb me a little.

* The fight choreography is not great, and if there's anything you need in a martial arts movie, it's good choreography. Both the choreography itself as well as the fast cut editing style made the fights less than they could've been. I kept mentally shouting at the screen, "C'mon, what the fuck? Give me some WIDE ANGLES! Let me really see the action!"

* Batista actually doesn't have a lot of screen time, but when he does get scenes, he's okay. I didn't mind him as Tong Po.

* As can be scene in the trailer, the competition fights (as in, not a street fight or some impromptu shit) take place in this industrial warehouse setting. I didn't care for that. The original film had fights in an actual Thai stadium as well as the cool, traditional ring with the torches and shit. That was way better.

* Van Damme is easily the coolest thing about the movie. Any time he's on screen the movie instantly jumps up a few notches. He also is fucking buff for this movie and obviously took the time to really get in shape. He also fights a lot. I have to admit, he looks a bit slow, but it's still cool to see him in action considering we haven't gotten a true martial arts movie from him since The Quest in '96.

All in all, I'd give the movie the grand ol' stamp of NOT BAD. I think some of the other reviewers ITT have been overly harsh. For what's essentially a DTV martial arts movie (I believe it did get some kind of small theatrical run but not much of one) it's probably a little better than average.

The problem with it is not that it's a bad DTV MA film, it's that it just can't stand up to the original. There are so many things about the original that make it awesome: the helpful ex-pat Winston, young Van Damme being charismatic as fuck, the villain Freddy Lee, Xian the wise and amusing trainer, Van Damme's dance in the bar, Mylee with her little store in the middle of nowhere. . . This movie lacks all of that, but I still think it's worth a watch for anyone who likes low-budget martial arts movies and who is curious about this reinvention of the franchise.

 

[Steveston]

You know I thought it was pretty good we have to remember in retrospect we arn't watching a oscar movie.
It was cool to see Georges in it I enjoyed it.
I think people are giving the movie a lower rating then it deserves.

 

[MMouse]

what if gsp was kurt sloane and van damme played eric instead?

tbh my favorite part was that cops tits

 

[BisexualMMA]

All right, I watched this last night. Here are a few spoiler-free thoughts:

* Alain Moussi takes over Van Damme's original role. I didn't hate him, but I didn't love him either. He was just okay. He's got the physical skills and got a pretty good physique, but he just doesn't have the Van Damme charisma. He's also got what appears to be one off-center nipple, which distracted me.

I'm not watching direct to video asymmetrical nipples. Fuck that shit.

This whole situation sounds kind of depressing. They milked every last drop out of Universal Soldier sequels so now they're setting up the powermilker to squeeze every ounce out of Kickboxer.

If JCVD hadn't fallen out with Frank Dux and been loathe to portray the man on screen, we'd already have seen Bloodsport pimped out like these bitches...

...until it had bedsores.

I'll start preparing the anus for Lionheart: Resurgence.

 

[Guestx]

They milked every last drop out of Universal Soldier sequels so now they're setting up the powermilker to squeeze every ounce out of Kickboxer.

NOW they're doing that. . .?

 

[BisexualMMA]

NOW they're doing that. . .?

I mean now they're bringing Van Damme back in for maximum milkage and making him party to it.

They already went insane with non-Van-Damme sequels to Kickboxer, Universal Soldier AND Bloodsport.

The pattern is Van Damme makes a movie, then they make some cheapo sequels to snack on the crumbs, then they wait for those sequels to be forgotten and bring JCVD back in to cash out of the franchise name completely.

Whatever. I'm not particularly invested in or attached to any of these franchises. I just kind of wish everyone would invest their energies in something else. It is just a very cynical product.

 

[Guestx]

I just kind of wish everyone would invest their energies in something else. It is just a very cynical product.

Mmm, having watched movie last night this isn't really how I felt about it. I more got the feeling that the guys who made it probably grew up watching Kickboxer and had a lot of love for the film. They wanted to keep the franchise alive and introduce it to a new generation.

Van Damme participating lended the needed credibility to their effort.

 

[BisexualMMA]

Mmm, having watched movie last night this isn't really how I felt about it. I more got the feeling that the guys who made it probably grew up watching Kickboxer and had a lot of love for the film. They wanted to keep the franchise alive and introduce it to a new generation.

Van Damme participating lended the needed credibility to their effort.

Glad it didn't feel cynical to you. But I know they have been pitching Van Damme kickboxer sequels for the last 30 years. It doesn't feel like this time he looked at the script and was wowed by the character development or anything like that.

It just feels like a marketing based production, which is usually the case when MMA fighters are cast in roles. It's always to try to bring in a few MMA fans as viewers, not because the fighter can act and will add to the story. It has a business justification, but it's rarely if ever because the director thinks their presence will make the best movie in artistic terms.

It's kind of like casting Paris Hilton or Bieber or Kardashian or Pewdiepie...

It seems like it could be a somewhat fun movie, but it also looks completely disposable and forgettable. I dunno. I don't really want to see Stallone doing a direct-to-video Over the Top 2.

 

[Guestx]

Glad it didn't feel cynical to you. But I know they have been pitching Van Damme kickboxer sequels for the last 30 years. It doesn't feel like this time he looked at the script and was wowed by the character development or anything like that.

It just feels like a marketing based production, which is usually the case when MMA fighters are cast in roles. It's always to try to bring in a few MMA fans as viewers, not because the fighter can act and will add to the story. It has a business justification, but it's rarely if ever because the director thinks their presence will make the best movie in artistic terms.

It's kind of like casting Paris Hilton or Bieber or Kardashian or Pewdiepie...

It seems like it could be a somewhat fun movie, but it also looks completely disposable and forgettable. I dunno. I don't really want to see Stallone doing a direct-to-video Over the Top 2.

Well I think Van Damme is in a different place in his career now, obviously. He also makes very strange choices at times. Until this film, he has not even made a true martial arts movie in 20 years. Look at his filmography. The last actual MA movie he made was The Quest.

Why did he abandon the genre that made him famous to instead do generic action movies where he just shoots guns while throwing the occasional kick? I dunno. If nothing else it seems like he had mixed it up.

He also was offered a role in the first Expendables movie. Regardless of how you feel about the franchise, it was a big movie. What did Van Damme do? He turned it down so he could work on editing his shitty DTV directorial effort The Eagle Path, which pretty much no one has seen. Thankfully he was not so dumb the second time around.

As for Stallone, he had his DTV period in the early 00s, but he's made a comeback. Unfortunately Van Damme just doesn't have the same opportunities that Stallone does.

Lastly, in regard to the MMA guys in the movie, the only ones who have any real screen time Carano and GSP, the latter of which actually does a surprisingly decent job (though I think they fucked with his voice a little, kind of like they did with Carano in Haywire). Velasquez shows up for one fight but doesn't say a word. Same with Werdum. And those four are the only ones I recognized.

Like I said earlier, it's not nearly the classic that the first one is but for a DTV martial arts movie, it's not bad either.

 

[BisexualMMA]

Well I think Van Damme is in a different place in his career now, obviously. He also makes very strange choices at times. Until this film, he has not even made a true martial arts movie in 20 years. Look at his filmography. The last actual MA movie he made was The Quest.

Why did he abandon the genre that made him famous to instead do generic action movies where he just shoots guns while throwing the occasional kick? I dunno. If nothing else it seems like he had mixed it up.

He also was offered a role in the first Expendables movie. Regardless of how you feel about the franchise, it was a big movie. What did Van Damme do? He turned it down so he could work on editing his shitty DTV directorial effort The Eagle Path, which pretty much no one has seen. Thankfully he was not so dumb the second time around.

As for Stallone, he had his DTV period in the early 00s, but he's made a comeback. Unfortunately Van Damme just doesn't have the same opportunities that Stallone does.

Lastly, in regard to the MMA guys in the movie, the only ones who have any real screen time Carano and GSP, the latter of which actually does a surprisingly decent job (though I think they fucked with his voice a little, kind of like they did with Carano in Haywire). Velasquez shows up for one fight but doesn't say a word. Same with Werdum. And those four are the only ones I recognized.

Like I said earlier, it's not nearly the classic that the first one is but for a DTV martial arts movie, it's not bad either.

I think the Expendables series was the main reason Arnold's post-politics comeback has been unsuccessful. Who needs to see Arnold in standalone movies when he jumped the gun and gave us Arnold + Stallone and all four movies of that sucked donkey epididymis.

 

[Guestx]

I think the Expendables series was the main reason Arnold's post-politics comeback has been unsuccessful. Who needs to see Arnold in standalone movies when he jumped the gun and gave us Arnold + Stallone and all four movies of that sucked donkey epididymis.

Really? I don't think Arnold appearing in Expendables has anything to do with it. I just think it's a generational thing. Kids today don't know who he is and probably even a lot of people from later generations aren't that interested in seeing an old Arnold on screen.

With that said, I enjoyed The Last Stand and Sabotage. Escape Plan was a big disappointment though and Terminator Genisys was just blah (although Arnold was good in it). Still haven't seen Maggie.

 

[BisexualMMA]

Really? I don't think Arnold appearing in Expendables has anything to do with it. I just think it's a generational thing. Kids today don't know who he is and probably even a lot of people from later generations aren't that interested in seeing an old Arnold on screen.

With that said, I enjoyed The Last Stand and Sabotage. Escape Plan was a big disappointment though and Terminator Genisys was just blah (although Arnold was good in it). Still haven't seen Maggie.

Sabotage was one of the best performances of his career. Arguably the best. Maggie was one of his better ones. Sabotage deserved better and I think would have done better if it had been his first foray back into movies as an older man.

But what's there for any of his old fans to line up for when he's already given us his version of "Heat" four times in quick succession and they all blew chunks?

For an astute businessman, I think it was brutal career mismanagement. Short term gain with Expendables paychecks at a long term cost.

Sly was hurting his brand in the long term as well, and is really lucky that Coogler came along with a ready-made Rocky revitalization project. Otherwise, Sly was out of Rocky and Rambo revivals, and would have probably done Bullet to the Head type projects until he was back down at Avenging Angelo levels.

As for Arnold... Everything he has done other than Sabotage and Maggie has felt like a cynical cash grab.

I have some hope for his King Conan project. But if that sucks, he might be a couple half-assed movies away from Red Heat: Retribution on Redbox.

 

[DaleBoca]

Skinny Jeans Cain=BEAST

Seriously, the movie was okay. I mean, I wouldn't watch it again. It didn't have those classic moments the original had. But, whatever, I will perhaps watch the sequel.

 

[DaleBoca]

NOW they're doing that. . .?

Honestly, the 2nd one with Cody from SBS wasn't that bad. Decent sequel considering they killed off JCVD and Denis Alexio.

 

[Guestx]

Honestly, the 2nd one with Cody from SBS wasn't that bad. Decent sequel considering they killed off JCVD and Denis Alexio.

My favorite of the sequels is actually #4. It had some good fights and I enjoyed Michelle Krasnoo. I still go back and watch that one on rare occasion.

Two was okay but I don't feel compelled to revisit it. Three was just baffling and it didn't seem to have anything to do with the actual Kickboxer franchise. And Five was a total piece of shit.

I did think that Sasha Mitchell was interesting in his own right. He was no Van Damme but he did have a charisma of his own.

 

[DaleBoca]

My favorite of the sequels is actually #4. It had some good fights and I enjoyed Michelle Krasnoo. I still go back and watch that one on rare occasion.

Two was okay but I don't feel compelled to revisit it. Three was just baffling and it didn't seem to have anything to do with the actual Kickboxer franchise. And Five was a total piece of shit.

I did think that Sasha Mitchell was interesting in his own right. He was no Van Damme but he did have a charisma of his own.

Ah yes, Michele Krasnoo, I had a bit of a crush on her. I'm pretty sure I had a Black Belt magazine of hers.

I watched 3, I believe that was the one they went to Brasil or somewhere like that. I never bothered with 5. It's kinda like watching that American Ninja 3, it just doesn't feel right.

 

[Guestx]

I watched 3, I believe that was the one they went to Brasil or somewhere like that. I never bothered with 5. It's kinda like watching that American Ninja 3, it just doesn't feel right.

Yeah, went to Brazil and saved some girls. No real kickboxing to speak of, mostly just Sasha Mitchell running around with a gun.

I had to learn my lesson the hard way on Kickboxer 5. I'm not sure if I actually finished it but I rented it and started it and pretty quickly realized that it was some z-grade bullshit.

Since you bring up the American Ninja, there are five of those as well and just like with Kickboxer I remember #5 being particularly shitty.