Khalil Rountree Jr's Oblique Kick ........

[zhmlol]

Alright, not saying I'm some BJJ expert since I'm just a white belt and I no longer compete, but I do remember very clearly that even attempting 50/50 position in both gi and no-gi matches for BJJ would result in a dq for most tourneys expect for brown/black belt and even then, not many would allow it. Note I live in California and while I've trained under a reputable instructor (Eduardo Fraga, he runs a Gracie gym out of Berkeley), I understand some parts of the US don't follow this ruleset but even then, those gyms that did teach and have tourneys that allowed heel hooks for anything outside of brown/black were frowned upon.

Are you saying that you frequent tourneys that allow heel hooks? What belt are you? Not trying to stir shit, just honestly curious because it is a very dangerous move. I do believe it is different than a kimura for example where the time to tap vs injury is much lower.

Almost all no gi tournaments allow heel hooks for their advanced divisions.
Even the conservative and brazilian IBJJF recently legalized heel hooks for black belts at their no-gi tournaments

 

[Qays Stetkevich]

I fuckin love stomps on the feet. Every since Marco Ruas did it


If you CANT stop someone from stomping on your feet,you dont deserve to win.

Haha, I completely agree, I just still don't think it's that sportsmanlike. Fair game though. Also, I mean, c'mon, like you say: If someone toe-stomps you enough that it ruins your gameplan and you lose.....toe stomping isn't the problem, you inability to do anything about it is.

Ok, maybe mouth-smothering then, or grinding your elbows/chin into your opponent. It's not (always) illegal, but it's pretty lame unsportsman thing to do, especially to your training partners.

btw, I thought Khalil looked great, and I liked that he stood up for his gameplan and techniques when Bisping was *clearly* trying to push the narrative that "that's clearly no the way you wanted the fight to end"....uh....I took no damage and tactically took the guy apart, so yes, that's how I wanted it to end. What do you want Bisping, he to concuss him or destroy a couple million brain cells? lol

 

[HHJ]

Haha, I completely agree, I just still don't think it's that sportsmanlike. Fair game though. Also, I mean, c'mon, like you say: If someone toe-stomps you enough that it ruins your gameplan and you lose.....toe stomping isn't the problem, you inability to do anything about it is.

Ok, maybe mouth-smothering then, or grinding your elbows/chin into your opponent. It's not (always) illegal, but it's pretty lame unsportsman thing to do, especially to your training partners.

btw, I thought Khalil looked great, and I liked that he stood up for his gameplan and techniques when Bisping was *clearly* trying to push the narrative that "that's clearly no the way you wanted the fight to end"....uh....I took no damage and tactically took the guy apart, so yes, that's how I wanted it to end. What do you want Bisping, he to concuss him or destroy a couple million brain cells? lol

I'm somewhat a fan or doing everything you can to harass the opponent. After all,it's your health on the line. Plus it's like..if someone is willing to do more than the other guy...it's a distinct advantage...and if someone can deal with an opponent doing those things,and mentally prevail and fight through it,it makes them even stronger. Defeating a truly worthy adversary let's say...and passing a test.

 

[Qays Stetkevich]

I'm somewhat a fan or doing everyone you can to harass the opponent. After all,it's your health on the line. Plus it's like..if someone is willing to do more than the other guy...it's a distinct advantage...and if someone can deal with an opponent doing those things,and mentally prevail and fight through it,it makes them even stronger. Defeating a truly worthy adversary let's say...and passing a test.

Agreed. I think we're of the same mind here. When I was fighting ammy I of course would read over the (ever-changin) ruleset and do whatever I wanted and could withing that set, and expected the same (lol, overestimated a couple southern rednecks by doing so) from my opponents. In the few fights I've been in outside of any sanctioning body, I go 90% in terms of "sportsmanship", meaning I won't bite, groin shot, or head-butt . . . .first.

 

[Goldentrophy]

 

[HHJ]

Agreed. I think we're of the same mind here. When I was fighting ammy I of course would read over the (ever-changin) ruleset and do whatever I wanted and could withing that set, and expected the same (lol, overestimated a couple southern rednecks by doing so) from my opponents. In the few fights I've been in outside of any sanctioning body, I go 90% in terms of "sportsmanship", meaning I won't bite, groin shot, or head-butt . . . .first.

My coach always told me that I should never have this feeling of superiority in my training,as a real fight,especially in the street can go wrong very fast,and nothing can prepare you for that. So i was always knowing,in the street you think its all gravy,and somehow u clinch up,a guy could bite your ear off like mike tyson,or worse. You have to go in expecting that shit,and theres no referee in the street!

Remember when Hughes fought trigg,he got kneed in the nuts and he appealed to the ref who did nothing!

 

[Qays Stetkevich]

My coach always told me that I should never have this feeling of superiority in my training,as a real fight,especially in the street can go wrong very fast,and nothing can prepare you for that. So i was always knowing,in the street you think its all gravy,and somehow u clinch up,a guy could bite your ear off like mike tyson,or worse. You have to go in expecting that shit,and theres no referee in the street!

Remember when Hughes fought trigg,he got kneed in the nuts and he appealed to the ref who did nothing!

I can't stand when fighters appeal to the ref instead of protecting themselves (especially as the sport has evolved). Bisping and others who get their mouth pieces knocked out and start groveling around on the floor for them like someone looking for a contact lens while their potentially lethal opponent is just standing there thinking about how to line up a KO on them....shm

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

Alright, not saying I'm some BJJ expert since I'm just a white belt and I no longer compete, but I do remember very clearly that even attempting 50/50 position in both gi and no-gi matches for BJJ would result in a dq for most tourneys expect for brown/black belt and even then, not many would allow it. Note I live in California and while I've trained under a reputable instructor (Eduardo Fraga, he runs a Gracie gym out of Berkeley), I understand some parts of the US don't follow this ruleset but even then, those gyms that did teach and have tourneys that allowed heel hooks for anything outside of brown/black were frowned upon.

Are you saying that you frequent tourneys that allow heel hooks? What belt are you? Not trying to stir shit, just honestly curious because it is a very dangerous move. I do believe it is different than a kimura for example where the time to tap vs injury is much lower.

Naga allows heel hooks at intermediate and experpert level. F2W and most pro matches allow heel hooks. A couple local tournaments in my area allow them as well (grappling industries I think). The only ones that I frequently compete in that do not allow them at lower levels are ibjjf and AGF. Basically any tournament that follows the ibjjf standard ruleset will limit heel hooks to brown and black.

I train at Checkmat (Leandro Vieira's family of gyms), as I've mentioned before, and bounce between our gyms in the southern US. I'll also very occasionally go train with the guys at movement art jiujitsu. I won't give out my belt level just because I've already given out where I train and some tournaments I've competed at. I am not a black belt.

Heel hooks are dangerous but I've been training them since I was a whitebelt. I can tell when their available to my opponent, I can feel when they're securing the grip, and I can tap preemptively. As long as they don't keep cranking after the tap I'm fine. I've had 1 close call because it happened fast but still no injuries.

@Prince Nephilim come on purple belt respond yourself instead of hiding behind the white belt. Come back and refute anything I said with your alleged 11 years of experience (yet the inability to tap preemptively)

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

Can you tell the difference and tap before you get head kicked into the shadow realm which also often comes with damage to your neck/spine/joints!?

Headkicks don't regularly result in spinal injuries lol and no you can't. Thanks for proving my point. You can get head kicked and come back in a few months. If your knee is fucked up thats half a year minimum.

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

Nah it isn't. You can seriously injure somebody with outside leg kicks. Also with punches/kicks/knees to the head that cause trauma. Body strikes over time can break ribs, not exactly good. Submissions too such as heel hooks. I mean, its a fight where you are trying to stop them via violence. That violence isn't exactly improving their health, safety, or career in any way. I just feel that if we ban that strike, why not ban leg kicks since they can inflict similar damage?

Its not similar. Leg kicks and calf kicks target muscles bundles. Obliques target a joint in way that can force ligament tears on impact.

The goal isn't to stop violence its to keep fighters fighting and out if the hospital for long stints of their career.

 

[Blobtheblobfish]

Its not similar. Leg kicks and calf kicks target muscles bundles. Obliques target a joint in way that can force ligament tears on impact.

The goal isn't to stop violence its to keep fighters fighting and out if the hospital for long stints of their career.

Just because it hits muscle doesn't mean it can't tear nerves and cause permanent injury. Legs can break with targeted leg kicks.

Maybe I can get by that their intentions are different but the outcomes can be the exactly the same. Brian Cobb complained his mcl was torn due to Gaethje's leg kicks, and Gaethje doesn't do oblique kicks, he does the classic kick to the thigh/knee. I've heard lots of other fighters getting hurt via regular leg kicks too

I still don't agree with keeping them out of hospital either, a solid ko shot can break a jaw that will for sure put you out for a while.

 

[WalterSobchak]

Ouch

 

[GreatSaintGuillotine]

Just because it hits muscle doesn't mean it can't tear nerves and cause permanent injury. Legs can break with targeted leg kicks.

Maybe I can get by that their intentions are different but the outcomes can be the exactly the same. Brian Cobb complained his mcl was torn due to Gaethje's leg kicks, and Gaethje doesn't do oblique kicks, he does the classic kick to the thigh/knee. I've heard lots of other fighters getting hurt via regular leg kicks too

I still don't agree with keeping them out of hospital either, a solid ko shot can break a jaw that will for sure put you out for a while.

The likelihood of a leg kick leaving long term damage is minimal. And in the case of Gaethje it is an outlier as not only does he hit extremely hard but he throws an insane amount of them. And KO punches almost never leave jaw fractures dude. You're talking a 1/1000 occurance. There is no comparison.

The only reason oblique kicks work is because they hyper extended the knee and tear ligaments. That is the purpose of the kicks. I can eat dozens of clean leg kicks and be fine in a month. I eat 2 or clean oblique kicks and my shit knees are fucked.

 

[CPH]

Remember when american kickboxers thought that a low kick was some dirty asian trick that required no skill? Remember UFC1 when much of the audience was flustered that the little guy in pyjamas was wrapping up guys on the ground? I have a feeling that many of you don't even realise this.

 

[ejazahmednit]

Too many stupid rules is the reason why we had the Yan-Sterling fiasco
Dont go adding another stupid rule to the existing list

 

[BjPenn2017]

What would you rather take?? Khalil rountree knee stomp or Ngannou/Uppercut and jumping punch??

 

[Gensoking]

It's weird that this is an argument but 1 event before this one a guy got his knee hurt by a heel hook and I've never heard anyone in the MMA community talk about banning leg submissions like some BJJ competitions do

 

[HHJ]

It's weird that this is an argument but 1 event before this one a guy got his knee hurt by a heel hook and I've never heard anyone in the MMA community talk about banning leg submissions like some BJJ competitions do

Some people are blind to what this is all about. Like the same people who complain about every single hit after a guy goes out. "oh they can control that shit,they know what they are doing"


Or when Korean Zombie injured his shoulder and aldo went after him. Of course he did. It was an oppurtunity to win the fight,collect his paycheck,and come home safe to his family.

He's not trained to wait and see how serious the injury is.

Lets not forget the fact that he's been trained to KILL for 2 months,and is a bit ornery after cutting all that weight,probably obstaining from sex,and having to spend time away from his loved ones for this.

If that guy didnt wanna get oblique kicked,he shouldnt have telegraphed the punch.

 

[HHJ]

Too many stupid rules is the reason why we had the Yan-Sterling fiasco
Dont go adding another stupid rule to the existing list

BRAVO

 

[thehighking]

Has to be the best oblique kick in the history of combat sports. Awesome technique