Khabib's submissions

[TerraRayzing]

I've seen a number of comments that Islam, while not as dominant and destructive as Khabib on the ground, has better submissions. Record wise, he has submitted two top black belts (Charles and Renato) which is more amazing but iirc, whenever Khabib wanted to get a submission and end the fight, he got it.
He easily locked up a kimura against MJ.
I think he got pissed against Conor, with all the cheating, and decided to end the fight and found the submission.
Same for Dustin. Tapped him out right after Dustin tried.
Same for Gaethje. I think the leg kicks were starting to bother him and he shot for a takedown and got the submission easily.
Also, the one time we've seen him on his back, his submission grappling looks


Probably would have finished the fight if there were a few more seconds.
I think Khabib didn't actively look for submissions as Islam does. What do you think? Who is the better submission artist between the two?

 

[VinceArch]

I think they're about the same, skill level wise.

 

[Edward Henry Greb]

Probably would have finished the fight if there were a few more seconds.
I think Khabib didn't actively look for submissions as Islam does. What do you think? Who is the better submission artist between the two?

Absolutely concur.

I believe Khabib enjoyed ground-and-pound, bludgeoning people and forcing them to quit.

When the UFC asked him to step up and get submissions, that's what he got for the last part of his career: submissions, whenever he wanted to get them.

 

[TriangleMonkey]

Khabib can take it if he wanted to when he wanted to

He was very disciplined with the concept of “position over submission”. He instills this attitude in his fighters’s training, and for modern mma competition, its a must-rule to follow

Islam favoring that head-arm choke is a nice one as he keeps control of position all the time he controls the front head-lock. High-level stuff using basic concepts

 

[markg171]

When Islam had to fight a title fight on 1 days notice against #10 he subbed him in a round despite Moicano being a BB who'd only ever been subbed by Ortega.

When Khabib had to fight #11 Al who wasn't a BB and has 3 sub losses he went to a 5 round decision.

Moicano would also beat the crap out of Al.

Why can't you Khabib stans actually be happy that the guy who surpassed him is his own protege? Khabib isn't even this salty, no more than someone like Glover is over what Pereira's accomplishing. These are literally you're best case scenarios instead of some rival doing it like DC has to watch with Jones.

 

[TerraRayzing]

When Islam had to fight a title fight on 1 days notice against #10 he subbed him in a round despite Moicano being a BB who'd only ever been subbed by Ortega.

When Khabib had to fight #11 Al who wasn't a BB and has 3 sub losses he went to a 5 round decision.

Moicano would also beat the crap out of Al.

Why can't you Khabib stans actually be happy that the guy who surpassed him is his own protege? Khabib isn't even this salty, no more than someone like Glover is over what Pereira's accomplishing. These are literally you're best case scenarios instead of some rival doing it like DC has to watch with Jones.

I like how you're calling people salty while having a meltdown yourself.
I like both and this is a simple discussion. Why are you so mad?

 

[markg171]

I like how you're calling people salty while having a meltdown yourself.
I like both and this is a simple discussion. Why are you so mad?

It's been 5 years, his own protege surpassed all his records and is the current champ, and you guys still go "muh what about Khabib tho???"

Grow up. You're in a Golden Age that this is what happened. Could only imagine how salty y'all would be if Conor had miraculously come back, KO'd Islam, and then broken the LW title defence record instead of this best case scenario for you guys that Islam's the one who surpassed him.

 

[rjmbrd]

Islam has well established himself as the better MMA adapted submission grappler. You have to be doing mental gynmastics to disagree.

There is no version of reality where Islam takes guys like Barboza and no-notice La-Quinta to decisions. He was legit taking coffee breaks in the Barboza fight. Islam gets them out of there and quickly.

Khabib had notably better top control and GNP. Islam is the more sophisticated striker with better submissions.

 

[TerraRayzing]

It's been 5 years, his own protege surpassed all his records and is the current champ, and you guys still go "muh what about Khabib tho???"

Grow up. You're in a Golden Age that this is what happened. Could only imagine how salty y'all would be if Conor had miraculously come back, KO'd Islam, and then broken the LW title defence record instead of this best case scenario for you guys that Islam's the one who surpassed him.

Let it go. It's been been more than half a decade.

 

[europe1]

Think Islam is better at opportunistic submissions (or at least his darce's).
Against Dustin and Moicano he essentially made them try to sprawl from a front head lock position, setting up the darce. Charles was more a club-and-sub.
Khabib's submission more often come from a positional dominance (except Justin but Justin's grappling-defence is truly abysmal).

 

[TerraRayzing]

Islam has well established himself as the better MMA adapted submission grappler. You have to be doing mental gynmastics to disagree.

There is no version of reality where Islam takes guys like Barboza and no-notice La-Quinta to decisions. He was legit taking coffee breaks in the Barboza fight. Islam gets them out of there and quickly.

Khabib had notably better top control and GNP. Islam is the more sophisticated striker with better submissions.

I mean I agree but here's a counter point. Islam had Dustin's back for a round iirc and could not get a submission.
Khabib made him tap pretty quickly. Different situation and I do think Islam has better submission but I don't think the gap is THAT big, imo.

 

[europe1]

I mean I agree but here's a counter point. Islam had Dustin's back for a round iirc and could not get a submission.
Khabib made him tap pretty quickly. Different situation and I do think Islam has better submission but I don't think the gap is THAT big, imo.

I remember being pretty shocked at how incapable Islam was at punishing Dustin's get-ups.
Dustin would basically just tripod up while having his back controlled.
That's precisely the sort of position say Khabib, Charles or Pantoja would 100% sub people from (think about how quickly Khabib jumped on Justin's back the moment he exposed it, for instance. Or Dustin himself when he fought Charles).

 

[TerraRayzing]

I remember being pretty shocked at how incapable Islam was at punishing Dustin's get-ups.
Dustin would basically just tripod up while having his back controlled.
That's precisely the sort of position say Khabib, Charles or Pantoja would 100% sub people from (think about how quickly Khabib jumped on Justin's back the moment he exposed it, for instance. Or Dustin himself when he fought Charles).

Me too. You could say Dustin was more experienced vs Islam but conversely, he was a lot more weathered too.
I think Khabib just preferred mauling people because when he wanted a submission, he got it pretty quickly. Both are pretty good submissions artists tho.

 

[rjmbrd]

Islam has well established himself as the better MMA adapted submission grappler. You have to be doing mental gynmastics to disagree.

There is no version of reality where Islam takes guys like Barboza and no-notice La-Quinta to decisions. He was legit taking coffee breaks in the Barboza fight. Islam gets them out of there and quickly.

Khabib had notably better top control and GNP. Islam is the more sophisticated striker with better submissions.

I mean I agree but here's a counter point. Islam had Dustin's back for a round iirc and could not get a submission.
Khabib made him tap pretty quickly. Different situation and I do think Islam has better submission but I don't think the gap is THAT big, imo.

Sure, but you also remember Poirier getting Khabib in a very tight guillotine.

It all comes out in the wash - when we examine their UFC body of work on balance, Islam is the better submission fighter, Khabib better at ground strikes.

 

[Hymen Crusher]

Khabib was physically stronger so when he got your back it was harder to get up. Islam is strong just not that strong but he is clearly more slick at subs.

 

[markg171]

Sure, but you also remember Poirier getting Khabib in a very tight guillotine.

It all comes out in the wash - when we examine their UFC body of work on balance, Islam is the better submission fighter, Khabib better at ground strikes.

Islam also secured a kimura in round 1 against Dustin that had us all thinking the fight was over

 

[MarioLemieux]

Khabib's submissions were sick but he was also violent and wanted to maul people with GNP. A master of both.

 

[Rataria]

mastering the basics in Sambo is harder than the basics of Jiujitsu

 

[gentel]

Khabib's GnP, wrestling, and physicality were better but Islam is a way better submission grappler

 

[Kowboy On Sherdog]

Isn't that the whole goal of being a coach... to make your students better than you.