Ken Shamrock = good Coach.

[Sinister]

Heh heh, by default though I always go for old guys. Because I love it when old men put shit-talking youngsters in their place.

 

[Madmick]

1) Shamrock's team is already ahead 1 win because of his picking and match-making abilities. He said he picked guys who were already particularly strong on the ground so he wouldn't have to focus much on it. And those bitching about how he has no BJJ Coach, yeah, because we all know Ken knows nothing about grappling.

I found the irony in this comment particularly rich.

Perchance these aren't the same BJJ Whitebelts who insist striking isn't effective combat?

It seems enthusiasm leads to ignorance, ignorance leads to arrogance, arrogance leads to imbalance, and imbalance leads to getting your face punched out on the mat.

Yoda said that.

Believe it.

 

[Valgarv]

You're right. Shamrock did pick fighters that would match his system... So, what good is that if his system doesn't match the fighters?

At this stage I would be excited if I were on Titos team because there's a lot that his coaches could teach me. Shamrock's team... I already know a fair amount about diet, conditioning, etc. With the exception of Christian the fighters in TUF3 don't look like they need much help in that area either. Look at them. All of them are cut up.

I don't understand why people are trippin over the sand bag thing. It makes sense. He could have done something a little less static though. The last time I saw an MMA fight where a guy tried to lift his opponant like that it was Tank Abbot trying to throw the dude out of the the cage... which is now not allowed in the UFC.

 

[Sinister]

You're right. Shamrock did pick fighters that would match his system... So, what good is that if his system doesn't match the fighters?

Errr...

Just because someone is cut doesn't mean they won't gas. Happens in boxing all the time. Guy with a 6-pack has shit lungs.

 

[fat_wilhelm]

Errr...

Just because someone is cut doesn't mean they won't gas. Happens in boxing all the time. Guy with a 6-pack has shit lungs.

So true -- the two are almost completely unrelated.

 

[frettish]

I don't be on a guy's team because he gives free hand-jobs. Let's see who is more effective. I've had nice Coaches who did fuck-all, and mean bastard coaches that I hated that were effective, also the reverse. What I just dislike is all this "Ken is a moron" crap floating around.

Well, I think that when most things are equal, you have to go for the intangibles such as personality.

I think Ken and Tito are probably both well schooled in fighting... so you can't pick one over the other on that note. (Unless you have an unrelenting desire to be the best leg lock artist in the world.) Anyway, I think most things are equal on that front, so for me it would come to intangibles... I'd rather have a team with an extra BJJ coach than an extra nutritionalist... not that nutrition isn't important, but for the sake of this contest... you may never have a world-class BJJ guy to train with hands on ever again for the rest of your life... However, you could speak to a nutritionalist like that pretty much any time you wanted to.

So, yeah, then it would come down to personality.

Here's an example. In one of my law classes in college, I thought the professor was an arrogent asshole. I did shitty in his class. I switched to another prof who taught me the same exact thing out of the same exact book and I ended up getting an A-. Personality matters in this context more so than I think you're letting on.

And more to your "ken is a moron" thing... Not that I said that myself, but for the guys who are saying it.. I honestly think it's more of just how he litterally says his words, and his facial expressions. The guy could have a PHD in finite math... stand in front of a podium with a suit on while explaining an extremely complicated theory which would make 9 out of 10 guys look like Einstein, but just the way Ken expresses himself, he'd probably still come off like he's a few fries short of a value meal.

 

[Sinister]

If I'm not mistaken Shamrock's "leg-lock specialist" has BJJ experience. Just when Ken said he didn't know BJJ and wasn't going to focus on it, people took it as he has no intentions of exposing his team to submissions and submission defense. BJJ is not the only submission Art on the planet.

Personally I'd actually rather learn submission wrestling, just because I like it better and think it can be just as viable as BJJ if done correctly.

Personality does matter to an extent, I just don't believe people should choose sides based on who kisses their ass. This isn't Law Class, this is fighting. Some fighters are dickheads, it doesn't mean their knowledge isn't viable. And often times with fighters like this once you earn their respect they open up their World of knowledge to you. So people around Ken should perhaps look beyond his antics and into what he may have to offer.

I agree about the way Ken expresses himself, but I'm also guessing much of it is just to get TV ratings. Remember, he WAS a Pro Wrestler for a while, he knows how to play a role.

 

[farmboy]

King, great post, as usual. I thought at the beginning of hte show that I was going to like Tito bore as a coach, simply because I think Shamrock's temper was going to get in the way, but as the show progressed I found that I was changing my mind a little. While I think it's cool that Tito gets right in with the guys to train, Ken was right in saying that in order to see every aspect of someones skill and potential, and the potential of everyone on his team, and the team as a whole, you have to step back and watch and teach from the outside. It seems that we start to see the effect of Tito's focusing too intently on one fighter instead of all of his men in the next episode.

It also seems that Shamrock made sure to get some guys that had a lot of experience in grappling and BJJ, so maybe his idea is to coach and teach what he knows, but also to have so of his more experienced teammates teach some of what they know. Since they were only allowed 2 assistant coaches, I think a nutritionist was an excellent idea, and how would strength and conditioning experience not help a fighter?

 

[Sinister]

Exactly. I really don't understand the fans objections. They're posting crap that really doesn't make any sense at all. To me it's just a testament of the fear people have of discipline, and just plain toughness (with Ken's personality), and also things like persistence and determination, which seem to be more Ken's focus.

They want free BJJ, they want to train with Dean Lister, they want to risk implimenting self-discipline regarding conditioning (which we've seen how well that works after this lot's first night on the show, and the history of the show of drunken antics and people gassing).

To me it just shows how spoiled and bitchy people really are.

 

[farmboy]

I think it's more because a lot of the people who watch UFC and poost here don't actually do any type of fight training and therefore don't appretiate everything that goes into the preparation. They think it's all sparring and that's about it.

 

[Sinister]

And Bjj!!!

 

[farmboy]

And Bjj!!!

Of course.:icon_chee

 

[SwiftMcvay]

King, great post, as usual. I thought at the beginning of hte show that I was going to like Tito bore as a coach, simply because I think Shamrock's temper was going to get in the way, but as the show progressed I found that I was changing my mind a little. While I think it's cool that Tito gets right in with the guys to train, Ken was right in saying that in order to see every aspect of someones skill and potential, and the potential of everyone on his team, and the team as a whole, you have to step back and watch and teach from the outside. It seems that we start to see the effect of Tito's focusing too intently on one fighter instead of all of his men in the next episode.

It also seems that Shamrock made sure to get some guys that had a lot of experience in grappling and BJJ, so maybe his idea is to coach and teach what he knows, but also to have so of his more experienced teammates teach some of what they know. Since they were only allowed 2 assistant coaches, I think a nutritionist was an excellent idea, and how would strength and conditioning experience not help a fighter?

We all know Ken can grapple, and he is great at getting leg locks. But the problem with his ground game, is that he doesn't utilize any offense from his guard. His guard is strictly a defensive guard, and he hopes for a standup from the ref, or some way of just getting up, but not too many sweeps, and he hardly ever goes for submissions. THis is why i think a BJJ guy would have helped A LOT, especially a guy like dean Lister for Titos team.

Nobody said a nutrition coach wouldn't be a huge help to the fighters, but i think they could have been helped out in other areas. Thats just me though. I just feel that for 8 weeks, or 10 weeks, or however long they are there, you will walk away a better fighter after working with a truly world class BJJ guy than i would working with a nutrition expert. I respect both of their training methods because they are both VERY experienced MMA fighters, and both utilize their training methods at their respectivd camps, which are both some of the best in the business. but at the end of the day, i just think TIto's training and coaches would make me a better fighter than Shamrock's. I guess we'll find out though.

 

[Urban]

Is this the D/S tuf thread? I like Shamrock better, and I'm really hoping he takes out Ortiz's team in a sweep. I have been just as prone as anyone else towards making fun of bodybuilders, but it's a valid point: a lot of these guys don't fuckin know how to eat. While a BBer may not have been my first choice, I don't really know anything about the guy's credentials so it's not my place to judge.

this thread reminds me: I need to eat breakfast... TO THE KITCHEN!!!

 

[MT420MT]

Lol, I had to bring this post back. Do you guys still have the same opinions about shamrock's coaching after a month?

 

[Sinister]

Yeah. I'm not fooled by the editing monster.

I laughed my ass off when Ken brought his whole shit-talking team into the office and asked them direct:

"Does anyone have a problem with what we're doing here?"

And the reply:

"No."

That right there let me know just how bad everything really is. Because if any of those guys who were bitching up a storm to the camera REALLY thought things were that bad then they would have been a man and said something about it to Ken directly. But no, every last one of them shut the Hell up.

Also, I agree with what Ken said when he said this:

"I'm not gonna kill you in the gym. If I have to do that then you've already lost."

But then I personally think it's stupid to even BE training these guys week-to-week. They're supposed to be at a certain level already and just picking up tidbits to round them off. Not being built from scratch, injuring themselves, and nearly getting into fistfights with teammates and such.

 

[Gavin LeFever]

"I'm not gonna kill you in the gym. If I have to do that then you've already lost."

That's a great quote, but he's forgetting that if you don't have grueling training sessions then you lose what cardio you've built up. So for the weeks the guys are on that show and training light, it's not helping them. A light day here and there is okay, but the insensity is how they'll get better.

Also, having *a* nutrition guy is a great idea, having *this* nutrition guy is not. You can see it in his eyes when they questioned him that he doesn't look legit. Sure he might be a bodybuilder but he gives me the feel he's a fraud looking for a payroll. Hopefully they'll show him giving his advice on an upcomming show and change my oppinion.

 

[Sinister]

Also, having *a* nutrition guy is a great idea, having *this* nutrition guy is not. You can see it in his eyes when they questioned him that he doesn't look legit. Sure he might be a bodybuilder but he gives me the feel he's a fraud looking for a payroll. Hopefully they'll show him giving his advice on an upcomming show and change my oppinion.

Like I said, be mindful of the editing monster. And as far as being questioned by these guys let me tell you from experience that answering smart-asses is no fun at all. Half the time after 3 years of working in this field I don't tell them shit anymore. If they wanna be ignorant and questioning with the intent to debunk, fuck them.

 

[Matt Thornton]

Definitely agreed, Kabuki.

I used to think I knew something about nutrition. Now I've accepted the fact that I do not, and will not know everything there is to know about it, but I know a LOT more about it now. Since I've been using nutrient timing, proper post-workout nutrition, and eating 6 small meals a day, I feel like my performance in the gym has shot up big time. My recovery is awesome, and people think I'm on speed half the time because of the energy levels I sustain every time I get on the mat. Not nearly enough people view nutrition seriously enough. It is seriously a MUCH bigger part of your success as a martial artist, and a human being, than you think. It's not something to be shrugged off.

I can't stand, either, when people have the "George Burns" attitude. (Burns was a comedian who drank, smoked a ton, and pretty much did everything doctors hate, and lived to be in his 90s) They see guys out there who don't watch what they eat, drink a lot, etc., and think "Hey, they're doing fine, and they don't watch what they eat." Yeah, that may be so, but imagine how much better they'd be if they had a solid nutritional program.

Yes, training is what makes you a better fighter. You spar, you roll, you drill, you lift, and you run, but diet, and to a small degree, supplements are what enable you to do that day after day. If you have a solid eating plan, and a few proven supplements, then you can make every day of training as productive as possible. Look at Arlovski. He is one of the best fighters in the world, and if you look at his training, you can see why. The guys spends up to 6 hours a day training. Obviously, to be great, you need to train your ass off, go to sleep, wake up, and do it again. Again, without proper nutrition, you can expect to get sick, to run out of gas, to have unproductive workouts, to get injured easier, and when you finally DO have a good workout, a slow recovery time.


End rant.