Karate-Kali connection

[SSgt Dickweed]

Posting here just to expose this to as wide of an audience as possible. This dude who seems to be a true martial artist/researcher claims there is an unknown connection between Karate (Okinawa style) and Kali (Filipino style).



Kali is probably most known in the Bourne action films and Bruce Lee also has trained it.



If anyone can comment if non-armed Kali could work in MMA let us know.

 

[SSgt Dickweed]

OMG! There might be something to this. Watch these timestamped videos.

 

[SmoothPies]

Any martial art could work..

The main criteria it has to meet is this: are you actively training this technique against someone trying to not let you?

When you wrestle someone they are trying to not let you take them down. BJJ they are trying to not let you submit them. This is the only way you get better.

In Aikido, Kung Fu, most traditional arts... they are just practicing moves. They never train against people trying to not let them so they are useless

 

[TheScorpionDude]

OK, I just want to say from the bottom of my heart, fuck all these assumptions.

These arts were present throughout history in many empires before Christ, in times when hand to hand combat was a actually a thing.

They were tested on the battlefields, in real life or death situations.

And todays notion that some random dude somewhere, I won't single out any of them, in some fucking dojo just sat on his ass and hit wooden dolls and came up with this shit is RIDICULOUS.

 

[SSgt Dickweed]

OK, I just want to say from the bottom of my heart, fuck all these assumptions.

These arts were present throughout history in many empires before Christ, in times when hand to hand combat was a actually a thing.

They were tested on the battlefields, in real life or death situations.

And todays notion that some random dude somewhere, I won't single out any of them, in some fucking dojo just sat on his ass and hit wooden dolls and came up with this shit is RIDICULOUS.

It's not an assumption. It's a hypothesis.

None of those combat historians through centuries could've had access to information easily available today. The neolithic tools are pretty interesting evidence for a connection.

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

just because modern day karate has rules doesn't mean it isn't realistic. how many videos are there online of amateur wrestlers body slamming the fuck out of some poor sap and damn near killing them with one takedown? or some guy who trained in boxing sleeping assholes trying to fight him? those sports both have lots of rules that prevent them from doing things but they're still very effective in the real world.

 

[SSgt Dickweed]

I didn't know this amount of movies had Kali in it.



https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0138902/

 

[TheScorpionDude]

It's not an assumption. It's a hypothesis.

None of those combat historians through centuries could've had access to information easily available today. The neolithic tools are pretty interesting evidence for a connection.

I don't quote follow.

Are you saying that because information is easier to obtain today, we can share techniques n shit ?

If that's what you're going with I have a few issues with that.

1. Martial arts are not all that different, they have a LOT of similar shit cause humans have 2 legs, 2 hands and that's about it.
2. People were stronger back then for obvious reasons.
3. "Martial arts" back then were actually super effective cause if you're not effective - you die.

MMA as a sport differs from the techniques back then cause it's a rule based sport. So naturally you'll see some things you won't be able to see otherwise.

But Karate, Kali, all that shit is just branded fighting. It's just marketing for something that has been present in almost all nations throughout history.

I don't want to seem like I'm ridiculing Asian-Oriental nations where all "modern" fighting is supposedly invented but these nations don't really have a great track record with fighting. Not with conquering shit, and certainly not in modern combat sports like MMA, boxing etc etc.

 

[SSgt Dickweed]

This other martial arts guy seems to acknowledge the connection and agrees to some of the overlaps.

 

[SSgt Dickweed]

Okay, kinda spoilerish but if you've seen the recent episode of the Mandalorian, the girl with the spear is the daughter of Daniel Inosanto. Rosario Dawson as Asohka Tano, the dual-lightsaber wielding Jedi, went from two to one weapon, something Ken mentions as a part of Kali.

 

[Mohawk Banditó]

Kali isn't specialized, like how boxing or BJJ is. It covers a wide range. If i had to pick ONE art to train for all things competition and combat, it'd be Kali, but just by that very qualification, it shows how important it is to train multiple things.

The movements and attacks of unarmed kali reflect its weaponary work (hammer fist to the throat would be slashing the carotid if you're armed), which is why it's not great competition based. Plus Panantukan has trapping elements to it, which are especially not designed for competetion.

But if you want to do some knife/stick-work and self defense, i can't recommend it enough. It's real fun

 

[SSgt Dickweed]

Kind of related but Karate apparently stole it's high kicks from Savate, a French style based on fencing of all things.


Savate btw was Ernesto Hoost's style before learning Muay Thai and being 4 time K-1 champ.

It supports the hypothesis that Karate and Kali are closely related.

 

[Bad Karate]

War Karate!

Easily the most effective martial art compared to all the other ones if you are biased enough in that belief.

 

[gevoudane]

Posting here just to expose this to as wide of an audience as possible. This dude who seems to be a true martial artist/researcher claims there is an unknown connection between Karate (Okinawa style) and Kali (Filipino style).



Kali is probably most known in the Bourne action films and Bruce Lee also has trained it.



If anyone can comment if non-armed Kali could work in MMA let us know.

Non-armed Kali, Arnis, Eskrima is wing-chun.

 

[cade187]

Wrong forum.

https://forums.sherdog.com/forums/standup-technique.11/

 

[gevoudane]

Also the connection with all the martial arts over there is that whole area was the same until the deluge. It wasnt exported afterwards.

 

[kflo]

I don't quote follow.

Are you saying that because information is easier to obtain today, we can share techniques n shit ?

If that's what you're going with I have a few issues with that.

1. Martial arts are not all that different, they have a LOT of similar shit cause humans have 2 legs, 2 hands and that's about it.
2. People were stronger back then for obvious reasons.
3. "Martial arts" back then were actually super effective cause if you're not effective - you die.

MMA as a sport differs from the techniques back then cause it's a rule based sport. So naturally you'll see some things you won't be able to see otherwise.

But Karate, Kali, all that shit is just branded fighting. It's just marketing for something that has been present in almost all nations throughout history.

I don't want to seem like I'm ridiculing Asian-Oriental nations where all "modern" fighting is supposedly invented but these nations don't really have a great track record with fighting. Not with conquering shit, and certainly not in modern combat sports like MMA, boxing etc etc.

Martial arts were developed and practiced for 1-1 unarmed combat?

I’d guess you have better trained fighters for 1-1 unarmed combat today than you ever have. Because you have a lot of people training for it as their livelihood. How many were practicing for 1-1 life or death combat with a team of training partners in ancient times?

 

[Stranger Come Knocking]

Martial arts were developed and practiced for 1-1 unarmed combat?

I’d guess you have better trained fighters for 1-1 unarmed combat today than you ever have. Because you have a lot of people training for it as their livelihood. How many were practicing for 1-1 life or death combat with a team of training partners in ancient times?

They aren't training for life and death combat today tho. Theyre training for matches with rules and a ref. A big fuckin stick evens that shit out real quick.

 

[Dionysian]

3. "Martial arts" back then were actually super effective cause if you're not effective - you die.

I would argue that actually indicates the opposite. If you and I play poker for the first time in our lives... and whoever loses the hand dies... after one of us dies the other person isn't going to be particularly great at poker. The surviving person will still have only played poker once in their lives.

The reason martial arts have progressed is the precise opposite... the scientific method applied and techniques done repeatedly towards perfection. Now instead of dying on the battlefield I could go 100% on the mat and see exactly what works, what doesn't, right up until a simulated death (tapping). That's the scientific method and will guarantee the best results.

Teleport a BJJ black belt (who has simulated this fight one million times) vs any guy on these battlefields from 1000 years ago (who only has "practiced" for however many guys they've killed up until that point), and take a guess at what happens in a one-on-one unarmed fight to the death.

 

[kflo]

They aren't training for life and death combat today tho. Theyre training for matches with rules and a ref. A big fuckin stick evens that shit out real quick.

I know.

It’s still combat without weapons. A stick is a weapon.

Again, what were ancient martial artists training for? What setting?