Kanye West has been red pilled

[bobgeese]

It's cool man we just have different tastes

How would you know if you like it without hearing it? Even if you didn’t, all you would have to do is point to an example of the style you’d like and I could essentially instantaneously compose something in that style. That’s not at all unique among trained musicians. It just speaks to the formulaic nature of pop music. Pop music has to be simple, because that’s what the average joe enjoys. Something simple that they can hum along with.

Again, it has nothing to do taste.

By every measurable means pop music (rap rock etc) falls very short of the threshold for genius.

Melodic content

Harmonic content

Rhythmic variety (surely you’ve noticed the same foundational drum beat is in every song on the radio right? Kick on 1/3 snare on 2/4, 8th notes on the high hat.

Technical requirements

Etc.


Now, if you were to ask me to compose a 4 voice fugue in 20 minutes, then I’d have my work cut out for me.

The thing is, if you really knew what goes on in the record making process, it would kill a lot of the mystique.

Btw, none of the above means any of the music is bad. It’s just we should not cheapen the word genius. Bach dictated the art of fugue from his deathbed, Beethoven composed the 9th symphony stone deaf, Charlie Parker created a unique vocabulary influenced by late romantic harmony. Tesla, Einstein, Da Vinci, electricity, wave theory, etc.


Again, no intention of offending anyone.

 

[Tiny]

Yes, yes I could.


Fire up daw.
Open spark (drum machine), choose a drum beat, tweak
Create a piano track, play Cm Fm Bb Eb Fm F#dim G Cm
Loop that
Create bass track, play all root notes to those chords, use alternating quarter note, 2 eight notes
Create track, make a melody

1,234,4,565,4,b3,2,2 b3 1

Add track, copy piano midi to a string sound for a pad, have that come in on the hook.


Done.

Play it yourself. Fire.

If you could.

You would of.

Or are you going to tell me you don't like money?

Done.

 

[bobgeese]

If you could.

You would of.

Or are you going to tell me you don't like money?

Done.

I play jazz bro, even the legends are poor.

Here’s what you’ll never understand, for an artist, the art is all that matters. I’ve made more sacrifices than you could ever imagine for music. As have scientists, athletes, and anyone else who pursues what they love.

Also, I’ve made money producing rap. You know what pays better? Christian rock. By your logic, I should pursue a career in Christian rock. Why don’t I? Because I would jump off a bridge if I had to play the same 6 chord progressions for the rest of my life.

Btw, your comment displays that you are absolutely clueless as to how the music industry works. Do you think talented people just get instantly famous? Even famous people struggle to get attention.





PS, teaching music pays better than all of the above. And before you think I’m tooting my own horn, call your local music store and ask for the price of half hour lessons.

 

[vengeful]

I play jazz bro, even the legends are poor.

Here’s what you’ll never understand, for an artist, the art is all that matters. I’ve made more sacrifices than you could ever imagine for music. As have scientists, athletes, and anyone else who pursues what they love.

Also, I’ve made money producing rap. You know what pays better? Christian rock. By your logic, I should pursue a career in Christian rock. Why don’t I? Because I would jump off a bridge if I had to play the same 6 chord progressions for the rest of my life.

Btw, your comment displays that you are absolutely clueless as to how the music industry works. Do you think talented people just get instantly famous? Even famous people struggle to get attention.





PS, teaching music pays better than all of the above. And before you think I’m tooting my own horn, call your local music store and ask for the price of half hour lessons.

You should produce an instrumental album and publish it, maybe you'll get lucky and some rapper will choose it, make a hit record and you'll make 7-figures just from the royalties for having a writing credit.

 

[TheComebackKid]

How would you know if you like it without hearing it? Even if you didn’t, all you would have to do is point to an example of the style you’d like and I could essentially instantaneously compose something in that style. That’s not at all unique among trained musicians. It just speaks to the formulaic nature of pop music. Pop music has to be simple, because that’s what the average joe enjoys. Something simple that they can hum along with.

Again, it has nothing to do taste.

By every measurable means pop music (rap rock etc) falls very short of the threshold for genius.

Melodic content

Harmonic content

Rhythmic variety (surely you’ve noticed the same foundational drum beat is in every song on the radio right? Kick on 1/3 snare on 2/4, 8th notes on the high hat.

Technical requirements

Etc.


Now, if you were to ask me to compose a 4 voice fugue in 20 minutes, then I’d have my work cut out for me.

The thing is, if you really knew what goes on in the record making process, it would kill a lot of the mystique.

Btw, none of the above means any of the music is bad. It’s just we should not cheapen the word genius. Bach dictated the art of fugue from his deathbed, Beethoven composed the 9th symphony stone deaf, Charlie Parker created a unique vocabulary influenced by late romantic harmony. Tesla, Einstein, Da Vinci, electricity, wave theory, etc.


Again, no intention of offending anyone.

I'm not arguing any of that man lol. I've already said nothing Kanye has done is more impressive than those guys. I think when compared to his contemporaries Kanye's albums are great and impressive. Compared to Bach...not so much. What's the problem?

I've been nothing but respectful to every person you've mentioned and I've been respectful of your credentials when it comes to music. I haven't claimed to know anything other than hip hop. I've done my best to explain that what I appreciate about Kanye's albums is that they create an almost cinematic experience that you don't get from other music, classical or otherwise. It's just different. At this point you are just being a music snob trying to dictate what music is better than others and refusing to allow people to have their own tastes. It's ridiculous. Not trying to offend anyone tho.

But ok. Let's see what you got. Go compose a Kanye beat similar in sound and quality to one you would hear on Dark Twisted Fantasy in 20 mins. I want to hear this.

 

[bobgeese]

You should produce an instrumental album and publish it, maybe you'll get lucky and some rapper will choose it, make a hit record and you'll make 7-figures just from the royalties for having a writing credit.

Don’t get me wrong, that would be nice, but the reality is it takes blood sweat and tears to get your work out there and noticed. I simply have no interest in doing the legwork that would require, because my heart isn’t in it. Not to mention that to do that seriously would require moving to nyc or LA, and giving up the life, built on music that I enjoy and have worked hard for. I greatly respect the work any of these musicians put in to get where they are.

That being said I finally starting work on my own material, which is based off some unique harmonic concepts. When it’s finished, I’m going to give it away. Firstly, because that’s the point of art, to enrich humanity. Second, realistically speaking, it’s likely too “complex” to gain any sort of popular success. Finally, I’ll likely attract more students from getting it out there, which will pay more than trying to sell cd’s at $10 a pop.

Btw, all of this extends far beyond music. It’s really the story of success in any field. I couldn’t imagine being a scientist with a controversial idea trying to get attention in a field where everyone is fighting for grant money.

In closing, May I quote the great Kanye West.

Now, bitch tell me again why you ain’t the hobbit?

 

[bobgeese]

I'm not arguing any of that man lol. I've already said nothing Kanye has done is more impressive than those guys. I think when compared to his contemporaries Kanye's albums are great and impressive. Compared to Bach...not so much. What's the problem?

I've been nothing but respectful to every person you've mentioned and I've been respectful of your credentials when it comes to music. I haven't claimed to know anything other than hip hop. I've done my best to explain that what I appreciate about Kanye's albums is that they create an almost cinematic experience that you don't get from other music, classical or otherwise. It's just different. At this point you are just being a music snob trying to dictate what music is better than others and refusing to allow people to have their own tastes. It's ridiculous. Not trying to offend anyone tho.

But ok. Let's see what you got. Go compose a Kanye beat similar in sound and quality to one you would hear on Dark Twisted Fantasy in 20 mins. I want to hear this.

I really didn’t mean to offend you. I just think genius is something that should be held in the highest regard.

I’ll take a listen to that now and tell you what I think.

 

[bobgeese]

Ok @TheComebackKid i just listened.

Keep in mind, I’m literally taking a shit and have no instrument in my hands and listened on an iPad.

It starts on a very common chord progression, I iii (could be a vi) IV hard to hear the last bit that goes back to I without headphones.

Then it goes to the verse, you have two parts one that sounds like it’s going 4-5.......4-5.... that’s the violin. Then the marimbaish sounding instrument going something like 1 b7 1 b3 1, which is blues vocabulary 101.

Then it goes to the next part which is definitely I bVI bVII I.

That’s up to halfway through the song, literally one listen, no instrument in my hand.

Is it cool, sure. Not my cup of tea. I greatly dislike the digitally created altered vocal sound. But that’s likely because I’ve spent way too much time auto tuning talent into tracks for money.


Now, if you don’t think I could create that after dissecting it fairly accurately in one listen, you probably don’t know a whole lot about the actual construction of music.


And before motherfuckers get your panties in a knot. If you really expect me to create something, y’all better be ready to put some shit on the line. Account bet? Cuz I’m beyond confident in my ability to do exactly as I stated. Keep in mind I would also have to upload it, create an account so y’all can’t stalk my ass after I murder your e personality, so it would take a bit longer to actually get it on the site. But if someone wants to send me their phone number, I’ll play that shit over the phone in 20 minutes. I have a student coming in for like an hour and a half. I’ll check back then.

And again, before you make a bet you’ll regret, keep in mind I obviously must know what I’m talking about, and have the confidence to do it, if I just posted that.

 

[Tiny]

I play jazz bro, even the legends are poor.

Here’s what you’ll never understand, for an artist, the art is all that matters. I’ve made more sacrifices than you could ever imagine for music. As have scientists, athletes, and anyone else who pursues what they love.

Also, I’ve made money producing rap. You know what pays better? Christian rock. By your logic, I should pursue a career in Christian rock. Why don’t I? Because I would jump off a bridge if I had to play the same 6 chord progressions for the rest of my life.

Btw, your comment displays that you are absolutely clueless as to how the music industry works. Do you think talented people just get instantly famous? Even famous people struggle to get attention.





PS, teaching music pays better than all of the above. And before you think I’m tooting my own horn, call your local music store and ask for the price of half hour lessons.

I honestly don't know the first fucking thing about creating music. But what I DO know is that you can't do what Kanye has done. You can try and simplify the art of it all...but likely that's only 1 small part of the craft that is what separates his income and popularity from yours. Because sherbro...if you could do what he does, you would be doing what he does.

And understand that I by no means like Kanye, or his shit music. I laugh at his fucking stupid clothing line and every other garbage he sells to us. But what I won't laugh at is his ability to propel himself above you to make millions of dollars. There is something there. And it's that something, that isn't easy. And it's that something which you can't do.

Because again, if you could...you would.

 

[Seano]

If you could.

You would of.

Or are you going to tell me you don't like money?

Done.

Having talent is not that uncommon. Making it in music is akin to winning the lottery.

 

[bobgeese]

But what I won't laugh at is his ability to propel himself above you to make millions of dollars. There is something there. And it's that something, that isn't easy. .

You didn't read my posts, because I made that clear multiple times. Making a rap beat is downright easy (and I assure you I can make music kanye couldn't imagine). The getting it to the right people at the right time, requires incredible effort, dedication, and hard work.

I would never take that away from any artist. I commend them.

But don't pretend that has anything to do with sophisticated music. The more complex the music, the smaller the audience. Theres an old funny saying about rock vs jazz. In rock you play 3 chords to 1000 people. In jazz you play a 1000 chords to 3 people.

There are amazing sax players in nyc who will literally play for a sandwich.

 

[bobgeese]

Having talent is not that uncommon. Making it in music is akin to winning the lottery.

Even worse, the lotto only takes a dollar and a dream. Its more like winning the lotto, on the ticket you got from a friend on your birthday.

And they don't ask for half.

 

[all caps]

Which rappers? I'm always looking for more rappers.

You can never go wrong with mos def, or the roots.

 

[Joe_Armstrong]

 

[bobgeese]

And that’s a well mannered Italian...

 

[Magooglie]

You can never go wrong with mos def, or the roots.

I already know them.

 

[TheComebackKid]

Ok @TheComebackKid i just listened.

Keep in mind, I’m literally taking a shit and have no instrument in my hands and listened on an iPad.

It starts on a very common chord progression, I iii (could be a vi) IV hard to hear the last bit that goes back to I without headphones.

Then it goes to the verse, you have two parts one that sounds like it’s going 4-5.......4-5.... that’s the violin. Then the marimbaish sounding instrument going something like 1 b7 1 b3 1, which is blues vocabulary 101.

Then it goes to the next part which is definitely I bVI bVII I.

That’s up to halfway through the song, literally one listen, no instrument in my hand.

Is it cool, sure. Not my cup of tea. I greatly dislike the digitally created altered vocal sound. But that’s likely because I’ve spent way too much time auto tuning talent into tracks for money.


Now, if you don’t think I could create that after dissecting it fairly accurately in one listen, you probably don’t know a whole lot about the actual construction of music.


And before motherfuckers get your panties in a knot. If you really expect me to create something, y’all better be ready to put some shit on the line. Account bet? Cuz I’m beyond confident in my ability to do exactly as I stated. Keep in mind I would also have to upload it, create an account so y’all can’t stalk my ass after I murder your e personality, so it would take a bit longer to actually get it on the site. But if someone wants to send me their phone number, I’ll play that shit over the phone in 20 minutes. I have a student coming in for like an hour and a half. I’ll check back then.

And again, before you make a bet you’ll regret, keep in mind I obviously must know what I’m talking about, and have the confidence to do it, if I just posted that.

But I didn't ask you to recreate his beat or break down his beat...I asked you to make your own. Use your own creativity to put together a beat a similar quality.

 

[n...not crazy]

Lol sympathizing with the right is the new punk rock

You just red pilled me bro

 

[Seano]

Even worse, the lotto only takes a dollar and a dream. Its more like winning the lotto, on the ticket you got from a friend on your birthday.

And they don't ask for half.

I didn't know you were a musician, what do you play?

 

[bobgeese]

But I didn't ask you to recreate his beat or break down his beat...I asked you to make your own. Use your own creativity to put together a beat a similar quality.

I’m fully aware of that. But you should be fully aware if a musician can listen to a song once, and with no instrument in their hand tell you the chord progressions, and the melody, then it is absolutely zero challenge to play that. And if he’s willing to account bet you, he likely can back his shit up, which I can.

That Kanye song is a beat that you could make something comparable to in a short time. Now keep in mind, mine would just be the instrumental, no vocals. And truthfully, most hip hop beats are simply, actually most pop music is, it’s pretty much all about the vocalist. A talented vocalist can make a simple beat and a few chords, a classic. A talented vocalist, I am not. I trained in voice as well, and use it as a tool, have sung classical works in a choir, etc. unfortunately I was just born with a small baritone range, and a not very pleasant tone. You are either born Aretha Franklin or not. I was definitely not.

Also, let’s be clear, my claim was in 20 minutes I could make a beat better than 99% of the “so called producers”. Now, you have to realize Kanye is in that 1%. If you ever heard some of the shit people have brought into the studio to rap over, you would honestly feel bad for me having to sit through it.

It just so happens that the Kanye beat you pointed me to was extremely simple. Here is a beat that would take a significant amount of work.



That beat took a lot of work. Frankly, that an entire level above anything I’ve ever heard from Kanye (which admittedly isn’t much), but victory has a polish to it which is not common. While I am thinking about it, Dre chronic 2000? Was also a fantastic sounding record. Mastered by Brian big bass Gardner if I remember correctly. He’s the man.


So again, I’m definitely not trying to insult you. However you have to understand, I most certainly know what I’m talking about, have actually produced rap albums, and am telling you that the music is so formulaic, literally any professional level musician could crank you out rap beats like it was a production line.

But keep in mind, a beat is practically worthless without a vocalist. Now if you want to argue he’s a genius level lyricist, I’m genuinely open to having you convince me, but as far as what is contained in the music, it’s not uncommon.