Kampfringen, Medieval Battlegrappling

YeahBee said:
yeah but that is alive, a part of tradition that is still in play.

and there is a line to later greco and freestyle wrestling

This type of wrestling was dead

I don't see the point of it, especially since it looks just like judo/wrestling

I could see myself doing some form of glima at a fair or some big traditional midsummers party but I wouldn't want to train it just because it is traditional

They are making a statement about something when they say that it hasn't got eastern influences, and IMO it sounds about holier then thou complex. and that is kinda stupid when it looks just like freestyle/judo

why the hassle and do it from books themselves when the actual techniques are already out there?
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YeahBee, what's your opinion of pankration? Because this post could apply to it as well. And it's a sport that was dead for 2000+ years and was re-learned through manuals, just like TS's topic.
 
koolinkunming said:
YeahBee, what's your opinion of pankration? Because this post could apply to it as well. And it's a sport that was dead for 2000+ years and was re-learned through manuals, just like TS's topic.
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MMA is modern pankration, the real successor

as a sport I have got no problems with it, would really like to compete in it to test my ability some without doing full MMA just yet, there is probably a heavy cross pollentation about people who go into pankration and have been in other grappling sports, or compete in pankration and are in other grappling sports

the learning to wrestle via manuals and stuff just seems such a roundabout way to learn how to wrestle. for those that did it at the time wasn't concered about fitting into one style, they just wanted to wrestle. These revivals make it out to be something more then it is.

We already know the historical context of it now. just seems silly to limit yourself, especially since the techniques coming out looks just like wrestling/judo? why not learn from people who already know how?
 
Have people forgotten what the hell 'fun' is? Not everyone is training to be the next ultimate fighter. Some people, believe it or not, don't give a shit about being the next Marcelo Garcia and train for the fun of it. Looks like these cats are doing just that, except with the added bonus of having their own enjoyable background.

This may be hard to believe, but not everyone wants to train BJJ.
 
I find it interesting from a historical perspective. My student David translated and published "Polearms Of Paulus Hector Mair". It is an interesting book. He had been running a Kampfringen work group at my gym for a while. Nobody was there to become real fighters (many were stage combat people and honestly not very good in terms of actual altercations). It was really a historical exercise from my perspective. A fun pursuit for those interested in such history. David himself is a very skilled martial artists (A JAG Lawyer by profession), and we used to chat all the time about how there are only so many ways to throw someone, break an arm, etc. What I was teaching in combat sambo was essentially the same thing in the books (with monor differnces).

Amazon.com: Polearms Of Paulus Hector Mair (9781581606447): David James Knight, Brian Hunt: Books

BTW, in terms of a comparison to Pankration, Kampfringen at least has much more actual documentation and technical manuals available to review than Pankration, which practically has none.
 
Looks like a bunch of people who are already well trained in judo and/or wrestling demonstrating their interpretation of moves they're finding in old books.

Grappling techniques are very old. Lesson learned.
 
Interesting topic. I'm not so sure what I think of it.

From a historical perspective it's great.

From a training perspective I find there is something a bit phony about creating a fighting style from old pictures and sculptures.

The guys from the first vid seem pretty good, and the throws seem very similar to wrestling, sambo, judo, etc. I would be very surprised if they never trained in some of these.

Love the sword stuff. And the music.
 
I have had these discussion with others before. There is a lot to relearn form the old manuals. Much of the stuff that can be relearned is no longer really applicable for sport or SD, becuase it was developed for use in a different culture, were the dress was very different or environment like a battlefield melee were you might be able to tye opponets up with each other. It was always fun to learn where or how some of the "useless" moves were developed and/or what they were meant for.
 
bagelgod said:
Have people forgotten what the hell 'fun' is? Not everyone is training to be the next ultimate fighter. Some people, believe it or not, don't give a shit about being the next Marcelo Garcia and train for the fun of it. Looks like these cats are doing just that, except with the added bonus of having their own enjoyable background.

This may be hard to believe, but not everyone wants to train BJJ.
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+1! Although I train BJJ, myself, if someone offered a reasonable version of Pankration near me I'd be there becuase I have fun grappling, and I like a little history. I know that there is no real link between the Sparta and Bas Rutton, but it is fun, and interesting.

Self Defense for LARP? Why not those kids probably need it more than most.
 
Why is everyone freaking out about this?

It's people trying to learn the fighting styles of past warriors. How can you not be interested in their training methods and techniques?

Obviously I wouldn't take this into a ring but from a historical point of view this is awesome.

Mixes my two favorite things. Martial Arts + History = Awesome
 
SweetDaddySiki said:
A growing number of folks are in the process of recreating the martial arts of medieval Europe. While no living lineage exists, these martial arts were preserved in written with Fechtbuchs, "fightbooks", Martial arts manuals written down by the knights and fighting men of the era. With the advent of the internet, people came together to study these once lost arts, and now medieval martial arts, from staff, to polearm to longsword are again being studied and practiced.

I give you Kampfringen, European battlegrappling. these are strictly drawn from the source material..there is no eastern influence on the various plays and styles. I hope you enjoy!

YouTube - FEDER presentation
YouTube - ringschule Wroclaw
YouTube - Medieval Wrestling
YouTube - Twirch Ringen (Updated)

Keep in mind..many of these plays have been learned straight from the manuals..we have no teachers in these arts, so we have learn the hard way.
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Just curious. How many accounts would you say you've made here? A hundred? More? I think more.
 
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