1. We now have a new forum called Fantasy Matchup Discussion. Access it here

Kampfringen, Medieval Battlegrappling

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by SweetDaddySiki, Sep 12, 2010.

  1. SweetDaddySiki

    SweetDaddySiki Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2010
    Messages:
    450
    Likes Received:
    106
    A growing number of folks are in the process of recreating the martial arts of medieval Europe. While no living lineage exists, these martial arts were preserved in written with Fechtbuchs, "fightbooks", Martial arts manuals written down by the knights and fighting men of the era. With the advent of the internet, people came together to study these once lost arts, and now medieval martial arts, from staff, to polearm to longsword are again being studied and practiced.

    I give you Kampfringen, European battlegrappling. these are strictly drawn from the source material..there is no eastern influence on the various plays and styles. I hope you enjoy!

    YouTube - FEDER presentation
    YouTube - ringschule Wroclaw
    YouTube - Medieval Wrestling
    YouTube - Twirch Ringen (Updated)

    Keep in mind..many of these plays have been learned straight from the manuals..we have no teachers in these arts, so we have learn the hard way.
     
  2. bjornvil

    bjornvil Blue Belt

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2009
    Messages:
    565
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Iceland
    I find this quite interesting...
     
  3. Hamsterdam

    Hamsterdam Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2010
    Messages:
    352
    Likes Received:
    0
    That was cool. That's an interesting style.
     
  4. CombatCyborg

    CombatCyborg Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2007
    Messages:
    6,778
    Likes Received:
    525
    Location:
    T.O.
    There's a school in Toronto called AEMMA which teaches Italian knight's tradition swordsmanship, grappling, horsemanship, polearms, etc. It's very cool.
     
  5. lechien

    lechien Gold Belt

    Joined:
    May 9, 2007
    Messages:
    16,211
    Likes Received:
    1,287
  6. mmarosko91

    mmarosko91 Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    Messages:
    290
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Kentucky
  7. YeahBee

    YeahBee Samdog Original Nine

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2006
    Messages:
    24,942
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    Land of the Ice and Snow
    I love wacking people with sticks just as much as the next guy. we did full contact stick fighting (with assorted hockey protection) in my teens in my LARP group

    grappling is grappling,, there is no value in just learning from manuals without eastern influences, especially since it technique by technique looks just like judo/jujitsu/wrestling

    all have a common denominator and there are just so many ways a human body will bend.

    but go for it, grappling is hella fun and good for you, don't try to overplay the value of it being pure or some shit

    now the value of the sword arts is a whole other thing. I would welcome a sport to really sword-fence, not gay olympic wrestling, but as close to medieval as possible. we just improvised and copied any movie we could think of
     
  8. YeahBee

    YeahBee Samdog Original Nine

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2006
    Messages:
    24,942
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    Land of the Ice and Snow
    why reinvent the wheel?

    different rule sets creates different styles but for the most part it is pretty much the same techniques, only some styles are better at certain techniques

    I get bad vibes from this, sorta like catch guys who prefer training in catch because it is 'Murican and notsome brazilian thing
     
  9. lechien

    lechien Gold Belt

    Joined:
    May 9, 2007
    Messages:
    16,211
    Likes Received:
    1,287
    I trained in lutte bretonne when i was a kid,

    I cannot find a link in English but it is old traditionall wrestling style from France/ Bretagne.

    I think there are a strong heritage of wrestling in Suisse as well.

    It is just wrestling and not submission grappling.
     
  10. YeahBee

    YeahBee Samdog Original Nine

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2006
    Messages:
    24,942
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    Land of the Ice and Snow
    yeah but that is alive, a part of tradition that is still in play.

    and there is a line to later greco and freestyle wrestling

    This type of wrestling was dead

    I don't see the point of it, especially since it looks just like judo/wrestling

    I could see myself doing some form of glima at a fair or some big traditional midsummers party but I wouldn't want to train it just because it is traditional

    They are making a statement about something when they say that it hasn't got eastern influences, and IMO it sounds about holier then thou complex. and that is kinda stupid when it looks just like freestyle/judo

    why the hassle and do it from books themselves when the actual techniques are already out there?
     
  11. redaxe

    redaxe Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2008
    Messages:
    10,166
    Likes Received:
    24
    whitep0wer is gonna be so stoked
     
  12. knoxpk

    knoxpk Black Belt

    Joined:
    May 25, 2003
    Messages:
    6,853
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    tampa,fl
    Lets be realistic for a moment. What are the chances that you get attacked fairly in a one on one fight? Or how often do you think you will be at the zoo when Anderson Silva decides he wants to MMA fight you?

    Both of those are very unlikely to happen. So unless you are going to compete any grappling art is as good as the next for basic self defense. On the other hand people do martial arts for other reasons, perhaps to be a part of something. Maybe to get fit and in this case to preserve a lost art. BJJ, wrestling and Judo are great sports of the sake of sports and mma and basic SD but we cannot assume that everyone takes these arts for those reasons. None of the arts I mentioned will make you a perfect weapon either and it looks like the grappling part of it will serve just as well as any other in a scuffle.
     
  13. YeahBee

    YeahBee Samdog Original Nine

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2006
    Messages:
    24,942
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    Land of the Ice and Snow

    Yeah but there is still something shaddy about saying stuff like "without eastern influences"

    just like there has been shaddy stuff in the catch wrestling world

    and these guys look quite slick, and yet people diss people who try to learn online all the time, and they never seem this good, even if it wasn't real sparring they kinda look like they have it down
    James Thomspon has watched alotta DVDS and he doesn't look this technically proficient:icon_chee
     
  14. knoxpk

    knoxpk Black Belt

    Joined:
    May 25, 2003
    Messages:
    6,853
    Likes Received:
    14
    Location:
    tampa,fl
    I know what you mean, I would not be surprised if many of these guys had judo or wrestling in their background, Jon Jones claims he is learning "Judo" online but has a solid wrestling background to build on.
     
  15. lechien

    lechien Gold Belt

    Joined:
    May 9, 2007
    Messages:
    16,211
    Likes Received:
    1,287
    People behind such movement about recreating long lost traditions can just be guys that just played too much D&D when they were young.

    But I can tell that it also attract the interest and curiosity of autonomous / independantists / nationalist movement as well.
     
  16. SweetDaddySiki

    SweetDaddySiki Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2010
    Messages:
    450
    Likes Received:
    106
    Why do this?

    Why not!

    There are still people who practice Kumi Uchi, or Kenjutsu..why not this?

    As someone who practiced aiki JuJutsu for years, I was intrigued by the idea of medieval martial arts. It's archeology and scholarship and martial arts all rolled into one.

    Its about curiosity and the joy of bringing something that was long dead back to life. The skill of the practitioners and the techniques are improving year by year. There is a great deal of discussion and scholarship as people come up with newer and better interpretations. And now that wrestlers and Asian stylists are getting involved, new insights are being brought in, and old assumptions are being corrected

    The point about being free from eastern influences may have been misunderstood..many people think this is just people practicing Ju Jutsu or aikido and calling it something else. The folks who originally practiced this stuff never even heard of Japan. Its not Ju Jutsu, its something that developed independently. It is in fact the origin of modern western wrestling.

    Its a demonstration that no matter where you go, people will always rediscover the same techniques over and over again, giving them a new twist.
     
  17. lechien

    lechien Gold Belt

    Joined:
    May 9, 2007
    Messages:
    16,211
    Likes Received:
    1,287
    As long as it is advertised as what it is (recreating the martial arts of medieval Europe), I do not see any wrong with it.

    But I got really annoyed when some local club start promoting their "pankration" program which as well "recreating long lost techniques" in order to attrac and cash in the UFC fans. Their students would have been better off training under proper instructors.
     
  18. SweetDaddySiki

    SweetDaddySiki Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2010
    Messages:
    450
    Likes Received:
    106
    I agree totally. The skill level and knowledge is no where near what it needs to be to really call itself complete and wont be for many many years to come. People looking for a more conventional martial arts experience are encouraged to check out an established style. The interest in this stuff has a scholarly dimension, and theory forms an important part of ones Schollers test (the western martial arts version of a belt)

    (Although it must be said..some of the sword guys are truly amazing, fully capable of defeating folks from more established styles.)

    Kampfringen, in theory is really quite dangerous.Like Kumiuchi, the precursor to Ju Jutsu it was a combatives style meant for use in duels to the death and on the battlefield. the manuals were written by people who actually used it to fight and kill. We just don't know enough about it nor do we have enough experience in it. But figuring it out is for most of us the fun part.
     
  19. redaxe

    redaxe Silver Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2008
    Messages:
    10,166
    Likes Received:
    24
    ^ You should write a buch about it. You could call it "Mein Kampfringen."
     
  20. fourfif**

    fourfif** Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2008
    Messages:
    7,840
    Likes Received:
    5
    [​IMG]
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.