Opinion Kamala Harris: $25,000 down Payment Assistance

[Mike]

@cottagecheesefan thanks for sharing this. I'll tell you why I found it so interesting. Back in 2018 when my friends and I moved here, we went into warehousing and manufacturing. Often we would meet other people we discovered had also recently moved from somewhere far away, just off word of mouth about the jobs here and some cursory google investigating to see if it was true.

We used to sit at the kitchen table and discuss this stuff, and I used to always say we need something like a new government works and housing program. People will just pick up and move, we're proof of that.

But what if it was actually made publicly available that were essentially going to just air drop in infrastructure somewhere that is currently unpleasant to live? I think people would go on droves, if they knew the jobs and housing and schools etc are all already there and functional.

I never thought I'd ever see a politician suggest something so similar to the idea my friends and I were throwing around at the dinner table. These are ideas that working class people can get behind. It's exciting.

 

[Mike]

They're going to place the jobs in the place they're putting the housing though. That to me
is the key difference. As you said there is abundant cheap housing but its mainly where nobody can realistically live because there aren't jobs or infrastructure to support a true city sized population.

 

[cottagecheesefan]

@cottagecheesefan thanks for sharing this. I'll tell you why I found it so interesting. Back in 2018 when my friends and I moved here, we went into warehousing and manufacturing. Often we would meet other people we discovered had also recently moved from somewhere far away, just off word of mouth about the jobs here and some cursory google investigating to see if it was true.

We used to sit at the kitchen table and discuss this stuff, and I used to always say we need something like a new government works and housing program. People will just pick up and move, we're proof of that.

But what if it was actually made publicly available that were essentially going to just air drop in infrastructure somewhere that is currently unpleasant to live? I think people would go on droves, if they knew the jobs and housing and schools etc are all already there and functional.

I never thought I'd ever see a politician suggest something so similar to the idea my friends and I were throwing around at the dinner table. These are ideas that working class people can get behind. It's exciting.

No worries brother, happy to always provide the evidence and receipts too.

The most important thing is to look at how the same people in this thread, notice their responses in other threads, like the Ohio immigrant thread, especially pretty much all the mods lol.

But that is the best way to follow the news. Look at what MSNBC says, then realize the news is actually the opposite.

 

[Mike]

This is supposed to be a symbiotic relationship. Businesses can't open where there aren't people willing to work for them and or patronize them. Citizens can't just pack up and move unless we know where we are going it's safe, there's housing and transportation and jobs that pay a living wage that'll hire us.

The government is SUPPOSED to act like a facilitating force that helps those two entities meet somewhere in the middle. Something they've blatantly just ignored for awhile. This at least sounds like a plan to set up a win/win that addresses the problems with everyone overcrowding in population centers near the coasts, because neither big business or the government will entice people enough to go anywhere else.

 

[Islam Imamate]

They're going to place the jobs in the place they're putting the housing though. That to mee
is the key difference. As you said there is abundant cheap housing but its mainly where nobody can realistically live because there aren't jobs or infrastructure to support a true city sized population.

There's a reason those places don't have jobs currently and its because from an economic stand point it makes much more sense to invest in the big cities which achieve agglomeration effects.

Not saying the idea could never work but I think it demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of the problem. The primary issue is that the most productive metro areas of the country have bad land use policies that are unnecessarily pushing up housing costs and pricing normal Americans out of those productive markets.

 

[Mike]

There's a reason those places don't have jobs currently and its because from an economic stand point it makes much more sense to invest in the big cities which achieve agglomeration effects.

Not saying the idea could never work but I think it demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of the problem. The primary issue is that the most productive metro areas of the country have bad land use policies that are unnecessarily pushing up housing costs and pricing normal Americans out of those productive markets.

But another huge problem it feels like you are overlooking is both parties (businesses and workers) can only gather where there's already infrastructure. That's what has lead to first massive overpopulation on the coasts, and now to this desperate mass exodus by the middle and working class to anywhere they can afford to live that has jobs.

The only player here that can increase how many areas in the country meet that standard? The federal government. This type of situation is exactly when they're supposed to step in to facilitate change. The market won't naturally redistribute the population so everyone isn't crammed in a small area while vast tracts of land are unused. Only policy is going to make that happen.

 

[Islam Imamate]

But another huge problem it feels like you are overlooking is both parties (businesses and workers) can only gather where there's already infrastructure. That's what has lead to first massive overpopulation on the coasts, and now to this desperate mass exodus by the middle and working class to anywhere they can afford to live that has jobs.

The only player here that can increase how many areas in the country meet that standard? The federal government. This type of situation is exactly when they're supposed to step in to facilitate change. The market won't naturally redistribute the population so everyone isn't crammed in a small area while vast tracts of land are unused. Only policy is going to make that happen.

There's nothing wrong with having massive population centers near the coasts, its perfectly normal and should be encouraged as it maximizes the agglomeration effect.

I do think the government could do more to invest in infrastructure to expand those metro areas so I think you're on the right track. The obvious thing to do is to connect our big coastal cities as efficiently as possible through mass transit. If there's undeveloped urban land between them what tends to happen after a rail connection is established is that all the towns in between the major metros with transit stops become much more desirable and in a perfect world they all grow outwards until they combine into one continuous urban area.

 

[Blayt7hh]

You don’t see a difference in building 3 million homes across America, vs trying to make 3 million in 10 brand new cities with no infrastructure in place or businesses or jobs?

Trumps “plan” is a fantasy a little kid would come up with. What if we just made a new city out of nothing where people could live? Wouldn’t that be great dad?

Yeah sport. Great idea.

China has done this. Literally. And it didn’t work out. They are ghost towns

 

[Mike]

China has done this. Literally. And it didn’t work out. They are ghost towns

With it being China and not America could there not also be other mitigating factors? Not exactly similar cultures. At all.

 

[SoSo]

Harris Campaign Releases Plans to Lower Housing Costs

Vice President Kamala Harris announced on August 16 her presidential campaign’s plans to lower costs for American families, including housing costs.

nlihc.org

Vice President Kamala Harris announced on August 16 her presidential campaign’s plans to lower costs for American families, including housing costs. The first component of the agenda, “Build the American Dream: Lowering the Costs of Renting and Owning a Home,” calls for the construction of 3 million new housing units in the next four years, outlines actions for creating a fairer rental market, and proposes $25,000 in downpayment support for first-time homeowners.

To address the housing shortage and bring down prices for renters and homeowners alike, the Harris campaign’s plan calls for a historic expansion of the Low-Income Housing Tax Credit (LIHTC) and the first-ever tax incentive for homebuilders who build starter homes sold to first-time homebuyers. Building upon the Biden-Harris administration’s proposed $20 billion innovation fund, the campaign proposes a $40 billion fund that would support local innovations in housing supply solutions, catalyze innovative methods of construction financing, and empower developers and homebuilders to design and build affordable homes. To cut red tape and bring down housing costs, the plan calls for streamlining permitting processes and reviews, including for transit-oriented development and conversions. The agenda also proposes making certain federal lands eligible to be repurposed for affordable housing development. Collectively, these policy proposals seek to create 3 million homes in the next four years.

And how, pray tell, does she intend to get 3 million homes built in the next three years? Streamlining permit processes? In every damn municipality? That would be quite a feat. And what exactly is "streamlining?" What across the nation in every city/county/state needs to be streamlined?

Let's say the build cost (build only, no profit, no land) of a very average home is 200,000$. 5% permit cost is $10k. Plan check and inspection costs are really only costing $6-7k including OHP to cover employee burden, pay for the office, training, maintenance, future office remodel/new building. The rest goes into the General Fund. Depending on the municipality, they might really need that General Fund money.

I'm just not that sure how Kamala is going to drastically slash the price of homes "streamlining" the permit process. Some places like in California have terrible wait times for permits, but I think that is an anomaly outside the major major metropolis'.

Ok, slash 5k off of the example above. 200k build, 30k profit, 80k land, 10k permit. 320k plus real estate fees and loan origination/title etc - Say another 25k for simplicity. Total 345k. Now minus Kamala 25k minus 5k Kamala permit magic equals $315k. 8% savings? And thats on a very very average house. That percentage goes down the higher the price of the house is. I'm not sure that's enough to justify fucking the market. I don't see these 3million homes being built unless the government builds them themself.

 

[Blayt7hh]

With it being China and not America could there not also be other mitigating factors? Not exactly similar cultures. At all.

You’re right that it’s a different culture but wrong that that’s why it failed. If anything it’s more likely to work in China where they have the ability to force people to move

 

[Mike]

You’re right that it’s a different culture but wrong that that’s why it failed. If anything it’s more likely to work in China where they have the ability to force people to move

They wouldn't have to force anyone if they just advertised they were going to airdrop in places with jobs and infrastructure that aren't already insanely congested. Where you could even potentially own a home and property if you're willing to show up and work hard.

I think you underestimate what a hook that is. Many, many people are starting to realize that without a miracle home ownership will ALWAYS be out of reach for them. No matter what they do or where they go.

Something like this could be that miracle.

 

[Blayt7hh]

They wouldn't have to force anyone if they just advertised they were going to airdrop in places with jobs and infrastructure that aren't already insanely congested. Where you could even potentially own a home and property if you're willing to show up and work hard.

I think you underestimate what a hook that is. Many, many people are starting to realize that without a miracle home ownership will ALWAYS be out of reach for them. No matter what they do or where they go.

Something like this could be that miracle.

I think you overestimate people’s willingness to uproot and move somewhere unstable. It would be unstable for a while too. I can promise there would be all kinds of hiccups for like a decade at least. Also, how do you get meaningful work there overnight? I can’t see anyone but the federal government providing that, which is something else China is probably more capable of doing

 

[kahiljabroni]

It's pretty well documented. Racial covenants in deeds were pretty common until segregation was finally ruled unconstitutional.

While you're looking into this, research "redlining" and how the National Highway System was used to segregate cities. It shouldn't surprise anyone though. Segregation was legal up into the mid-1950s. It should surprise anyone that laws were written with the express intention to segregate since it wasn't unlawful to do.

The problem in the modern era is that because we have never allowed it, it's hard to fathom just how widespread and impactful it was on the prior generations.

Źzzzzzzzzss

 

[AWilder]

lmao, i can only imagine the dystopian horrors of a trump company town.

 

[spamking]

Local zonings limit home building so as to not overwelm their school districts.

We need this badly here in the OKC metro area. My wife's school building is busting at the seams and developers are constantly building more sub-divisions in their district. Our roads aren't currently ready to handle the increased traffic either.

 

[spamking]

I dunno if it is intentionally vague, or uninformed.

 

[spamking]

You don’t see a difference in building 3 million homes across America, vs trying to make 3 million in 10 brand new cities with no infrastructure in place or businesses or jobs?

Trumps “plan” is a fantasy a little kid would come up with. What if we just made a new city out of nothing where people could live? Wouldn’t that be great dad?

Yeah sport. Great idea.

Are these 3 million homes going to all be off-grid? If not, in most areas the infrastructure isn't ready for their share of that number.

I'd like to see a focus on rebuilding and updating old neighborhoods instead of incentivizing developers to chew through every vacant field and build 100-home subdivisions.

 

[panamaican]

Are these 3 million homes going to all be off-grid? If not, in most areas the infrastructure isn't ready for their share of that number.

I'd like to see a focus on rebuilding and updating old neighborhoods instead of incentivizing developers to chew through every vacant field and build 100-home subdivisions.

I think the only way to address the updating element is with limitations on investors stockpiling homes. Otherwise, real estate investors will continue to buy these dilapidated homes, do some minimal upgrades and then rent them out.

There are investors out there who own entire blocks of neighborhoods. As a real estate attorney, I get it and approve it. But if the idea is to have sustainable neighborhoods where people are invested in their communities for the long term then it doesn't work. Communities need to have people who have "always been there", have seen the local kids grow up and move on, have a personal interest in preserving their streets, etc. These are things that renters don't have because they can frequently just be priced out of their neighborhoods and landlords generally don't think this way because they live elsewhere.

 

[HockeyBjj]

I'd like to see a focus on rebuilding and updating old neighborhoods instead of incentivizing developers to chew through every vacant field and build 100-home subdivisions.

That’s what a ton of this is. Also with the remote work flux, I’m seeing (and working on) a large number of business office conversions to apartment buildings in cities