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Actually, they are simply strategies to win.
Werdum's strategy guaranteed he would lose, but he could avoid getting knocked out.
Just Rewatched Werdum vs Overeem 2
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Actually, they are simply strategies to win.
Werdum's strategy guaranteed he would lose, but he could avoid getting knocked out.
firewall62
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The only way Werdum could win the fight was by engaging Overeem in the stand up. After the first round it was obvious that he wasn't going to take Overeem down and keep him there. But Werdum was too scared to try to win. The only reason he even outstruck Overeem is because he kept trying to pull guard. He would deliver strikes then attempt to pull guard unsuccessfully when Overeem returned fire. His strikes did no damage and never had Overeem in any real danger. That's why he lost the fight, and why he deserved to lose.
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I think Werdum matches up better with Cain, he has vastly improved striking if not better striking than Cain and always presents danger in the ground whereas Overeem would get overwhelmed by Cain's pace and fold in the championship rounds
firewall62
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His only chance of winning required him to stand with Overeem. He was too scared to try.
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His strikes definitely had Reem backing up, I wouldn't say they did no damage. I think they were both just too lazy to do anything spectacular. Both were content to not push the action and at the end of the day the judges saw Overeem as the dominant one because of Werdum's pulling of guard.
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What I took from the fight:
-both had pretty weak cardio but that's pretty normal for HW's (cain is not normal. not even close to normal)
-overeem was a little thrown off by the fear of the takedown and thus werdum was allowed to land more shots than he should have but reem didn't seem to care at all. He had no respect for werdum's hands
-Werdum was terrified of the Reem's power. If Reem threw more than one strike in his direction, Werdum would fall to his back or try to pull guard. It was truly pathetic.
There's few mma related things that can put me on a tangent like someone suggesting that Werdum actually deserved that decision. You can whine about LNP. You can whine about wall and stall, but each is a necessary evil in it's own way and not that bad at the end of the day, but flopping? FUCK FLOPPING. It simply cannot be allowed.
That is why the decision shouldn't have even been considered close. A flop should practically count as a KNOCKDOWN, and all those trips and throws, even if werdum was going with it on purpose cause he wanted to be on the ground, should count as takedowns.
It would truly kill MMA if anyone who was decent with submissions could throw one or two punches and then fall to their back to avoid any counters; or worse yet, NOT throw one or two punches and just simply fall to their back whenever their opponent even begins to throw a strike.
That is disgraceful to martial arts.
PS: I'm actually fine with guard pulling, but that means you have to actually GRAB YOUR OPPONENT and jump up and pull him down into your guard. And if you can hold him there....GOOD FOR YOU, more power to ya big fella
but flopping? fuck that. counts as a knockdown in my book.
-both had pretty weak cardio but that's pretty normal for HW's (cain is not normal. not even close to normal)
-overeem was a little thrown off by the fear of the takedown and thus werdum was allowed to land more shots than he should have but reem didn't seem to care at all. He had no respect for werdum's hands
-Werdum was terrified of the Reem's power. If Reem threw more than one strike in his direction, Werdum would fall to his back or try to pull guard. It was truly pathetic.
There's few mma related things that can put me on a tangent like someone suggesting that Werdum actually deserved that decision. You can whine about LNP. You can whine about wall and stall, but each is a necessary evil in it's own way and not that bad at the end of the day, but flopping? FUCK FLOPPING. It simply cannot be allowed.
That is why the decision shouldn't have even been considered close. A flop should practically count as a KNOCKDOWN, and all those trips and throws, even if werdum was going with it on purpose cause he wanted to be on the ground, should count as takedowns.
It would truly kill MMA if anyone who was decent with submissions could throw one or two punches and then fall to their back to avoid any counters; or worse yet, NOT throw one or two punches and just simply fall to their back whenever their opponent even begins to throw a strike.
That is disgraceful to martial arts.
PS: I'm actually fine with guard pulling, but that means you have to actually GRAB YOUR OPPONENT and jump up and pull him down into your guard. And if you can hold him there....GOOD FOR YOU, more power to ya big fella
but flopping? fuck that. counts as a knockdown in my book.
snoop dogg***
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how does pulling guard make him a coward. anyone who has the nuts to step in the ring with overeem is far from a coward
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Werdum via leg lock
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Holly shit! You have the best avatar in Sherdog
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Why would you voluntarily watch that fight again?
Insomnia?
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Dos Santos was too worried about keeping the fight standing up. He had multiple times where he could have pounced on Cain when he was on the ground. If youre well rounded you end the fight where it takes you. So Cain was forced to end the fight standing and Dos Santos standup plan backfired.
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it was an absolutely horrible fight and overeem was still gassed at the end
oh boy
oh boy
The problem isn't with pulling guard, pulling guard is a perfectly respectable, effective strategy. The issue is that when he realized he wouldn't actually be able to pull guard effectively, Fabricio started simply sitting down and begging Overeem to climb onto of him. There's a difference between pulling guard and lying on your back and hoping the other guy will climb on you, and it's that kind of bullshit that has ignorant people talking shit about BJJ.
I agree that it's wrong to call Fabricio a coward, and I think anyone who does should think seriously about who they are to make that comment about a man who has gone out there and thrown with the baddest dudes in the world, but I still think his strategy was total bullshit and people are right to take issue with it.
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I'm not sure I'd call it a "slow paced fight", it wasnt massive in terms of offence because of Werdums tactics but those tactics also ment both men were up and down constantly.
I wouldnt say Overeem never had him in danger either, I remember at least one punch and a knee both clearly had Werdum rocked when he flopped.
I wouldnt say Overeem never had him in danger either, I remember at least one punch and a knee both clearly had Werdum rocked when he flopped.
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Hahaha..... Ummm.....no!
I was wondering about that last night too, a couple times, Cain left himself in a real bad situation after missing a takedown where JDS could have just pounced on him and started blasting him if he had anywhere near the confidence in his grappling that he claims to in interviews. He spent so much energy being afraid to go to the ground that he ended up getting blasted on his feet and then put on his back, when he could have been the one on top if he'd gone after Cain on some of those wild takedown attempts. All respect to Cain though for knowing JDS wouldn't try to punish him for spamming takedowns and acting accordingly, don't want to take anything away from him.
