Just Rewatched Tony Ferguson vs Kevin Lee

[Kvothe_the_kingkiller]

Lee took him down, passed his gaurd, mounted him, took his back and threw some serious punches on him. If he had 30 more seconds, he very well could have finished it.. Tony was getting fucked up really bad

That's the balance though. You can go full and tire if it doesn't work, or you don't have to. He did, and it didn't work.

If everyone went balls to the wall for the first 7 minutes, every fight would be different. But they don't. For good reason.

I agree that he did look great that first 1.5 rounds.

There is no reason to believe that if he had 30 more seconds he would have finished it. But you're right, he "could have"

Now, to be fair....it was probably his best chance to win. He wasn't ever going to eke out a 5 round decision against the guy. But even following a game plan that gave him his best chance to win, he didn't win. If indeed he was sick, that's too bad, because I would have loved to see them fight both at full strength.

 

[DatSamboKid]

What gym do you think would be a good fit for him?

Difficult question to answer, I couldn’t tell you. Every fighter is different and responds to coaching differently. I don’t know what type of fighter Kevin is. There is a huge difference between coaches and trainers. A lot of pad men out there and very few coaches. A lot of professionals think they know everything once they make it to the big league and they just focus on conditioning and getting rounds in. Works for some, doesn’t for others. I’m a big fan of smaller gyms, massive super gyms like ATT is great for sparring, but probably not so great for coaching unless you have the means to pay for private coaching. In conclusion, everyone is different, it’s a difficult question to answer.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I'm worried about him training at Tristar now, because I know for a fact that the gym is overrated and he isn't getting the coaching he should be getting.

How do you know for a fact? Personal experience?

 

[DatSamboKid]

How do you know for a fact? Personal experience?

I trained/fought out of that gym and also managed it.

 

[Islam Imamate]

I trained/fought out of that gym and also managed it.

I think someone here once said they don't even have a wrestling class and that its mostly a BJJ gym, any truth to that?

 

[kevinramsdell]

I've taken shits more alpha than you'll ever be

Lee has pretty good boxing, solid kicks, great wrestling, top game / underrated grappling. He's skilled everywhere. Not sure anyone could possibly think Lee has one dimensional to their skillset unless they're retarded

That said, sounds like you probably need to rewatch the fight and remove whatever bias your holding

What I will say is that in his last few fights, he has seemed directionless, lacked timing, purpose, transitioned poorly and all around just seemed somewhat lost.. Which could perhaps give the illusion of a fighter being less versatile than they actually are / could be

The Tony fight was really the last time I can recall that he put it all together and it flowed. After that his head coach committed suicide and you seen some regression in him I feel

But yeah, clearly a very skilled fighter in all areas at 25 years old

Sounds like you either have something against him , are biased in some way or are just an idiot with low fight iq

He's 27 years old now, maybe you're referring to his age at the time of the fight?

If that's the case, he should be improving more and more but instead it seems he's regressing. Lost to Iaquinta who is mid-tier AT BEST, and was just destroyed by RDA after gassing himself in the first two rounds (typical, one-dimensional). There is no bias whatsoever, just speaking it how it is. I get it, you're a cuck for Kevin Lee, but the guy is a prospect at best and until he improves his striking significantly or learns how to use his grappling more offensivley he's gonna just get picked apart by the elite of the division.

 

[bambammccoy]

Tony is overrated as hell. Lee, Barboza, RDA, Lando, Cowboy all looked like world beaters against him until Tonys chin/cardio/pressure wouldnt let up. He relies on his physical attributes to cover up his extreme lack of skill in alot of areas, especially striking. Even Pettis was tagging him plenty before dropping him.


I think we can all agree the "look how good ____ is based on how he did vs Tony" line has failed before Lee and is failing in regards to Lee as well. Castillo, Lando, Lee, etc

 

[ChumpyKiwi]

Difficult question to answer, I couldn’t tell you. Every fighter is different and responds to coaching differently. I don’t know what type of fighter Kevin. There is a huge difference between coaches and trainers. A lot of pad men out there and very few coaches. A lot of professionals think they know everything once they make it to the big league and they just focus on conditioning and getting rounds in. Works for some, doesn’t for others. I’m a big fan of smaller gyms, massive super gyms like ATT is great for sparring, but probably not so great for coaching unless you have the means to pay for private coaching. In conclusion, everyone is different, it’s a difficult question to answer.

Ok. What about tri-star don't you like? Everyone calls Zahabi an "mma genius" and many will point out he has produced one of the greatest mma wrestlers which is why they think it would be a great fit for Kevin Lee. I remember Lee saying he wasn't just looking for a guy that could give him the technique, but also a coach that could talk to him on a very personal level like his old head coach

 

[DatSamboKid]

I think someone here once said they don't even have a wrestling class and that its mostly a BJJ gym, any truth to that?

That is true/not true.
Their is a "wrestling" class, it's greco-roman and given by five-time Olympian Doug Yates who won gold at the 1979 Pan American Games. It's not really open to new comers and it's usually Doug, his son and the Barreiro Twins (Thomas and Phillip), but if you ask, they will let you join (they are super cool).
I will say that Firas incorporates a lot of wrestling into his BJJ system. A lot of cage wrestling drills and No-Gi wrestling. No-Gi BJJ is definitely very high level at Tristar, I won't take anything away from that.
My concern is that, there is zero structure when it comes to training camps.

 

[FrankDux]

Everyone looks good until they don't when they're fighting Tony. He takes people into deep waters, drowns them, and takes their soul.

Truer words have never been spoken.

 

[Tyr XIII]

Meh. Even Lando Vannata looked like a superhero against Tony until he got finished.

this is 100% true.
Lando looked like a top 10 LW all time until the end

 

[DatSamboKid]

Ok. What about tri-star don't you like? Everyone calls Zahabi an "mma genius" and many will point out he has produced one of the greatest mma wrestlers which is why they think it would be a great fit for Kevin Lee. I remember Lee saying he wasn't just looking for a guy that could give him the technique, but also a coach that could talk to him on a very personal level like his old head coach

That belief is simply flawed. I won't personally attack Firas on a forum, he is a extremely knowledgable in martial arts, fitness and other aspects of athletics. He is arguably amongst the biggest "brains" in MMA. I say brain, because he holds a lot of information, more than the average coach. But, it's not because you have a lot of information that you're a good coach. I believe a coach is someone who can take a day one white belt and build him into a world champion. Not someone who is going to spit Aristotle quotes at you, barely hold pads and corner you when you're on a winning streak.
Tristar has very good coaches that aren't even known, Conrad Pla, Peter Sisomphou, Phillippe Allaire, Hercules Kyvelos, Pierre-Olivier LeClerc and many more.

 

[Tyr XIII]

They're literally protecting Khabib from his worst match-up (Gillespie) by making fighter Kevin Lee take him out.
I always thought a motivated good game plan fighter Kevin Lee would be a nightmare for anybody at LW. GSP will bring out his full potential. After he gets past Gillespie (will be a very tough fight) he'll go on to maul Islam.

protecting Khabib? what????

 

[Poirierfan]

That's why the Tony vs Kevin Lee fight makes believe Tony will get absolutely brutalized vs Khabib, It won't even be competitive.

 

[Ideanudge]

First of all id just like to say, I think this was probably the best Kevin Lee has looked in all of his past fights.

His boxing was sharp, moved well, solid jab, good kicks. He outstruck Tony in the first round

And the 2nd was very competitive on the feet with Tony barely edging it

Lee took him down, passed his gaurd, mounted him, took his back and threw some serious punches on him. If he had 30 more seconds, he very well could have finished it.. Tony was getting fucked up really bad

As the fight went on, Tony's pace, cardio and toughness began to take over, he started flowing and got sharper / more technical. Threw a sick standing elbow, his elbows from the bottom throughout the fight were amazing too

This fight happened shortly after Lee lost his head coach. He seemed very on point here relative to all his later fights, put everything together well, fought smart, moved well, transitioned well.. Compared with his last few where he more or less felt directionless without a proper head coach to guide him



If Lee can continue to build on this form under new coach Firaz Zahabi / GSP and fix some of his issues surrounding cardio and energy management, we could very well see Lee as a champ in the future.

Everyone's sleeping on him now because that's what losses do on sherdog but it's impossible to watch this fight and not see the immense talent, well roundedness and potential in the 25 year old Kevin Lee. Which is precisely why GSP has spoken so highly of him

This is probably blasphemy to say here but Lee at 25 years old against Tony is better than GSP was at the same age. A fair bit better actually. Which is saying a lot about what he can potentially accomplish if him and his team put the pieces together

Tony blocked most of those shots from mount.

Lee will always be a two round fighter. He tries to use this to his advantage and outgrapple people into subs or great position, but if it goes longer than that, he blew he gas tank and can't hold his long blood filled hands up anymore. His chin is also suspect. You can't simply transition into having great cardio without sacrificing some of your strengths. He always was just a gatekeeper.

 

[Islam Imamate]

That is true/not true.
Their is a "wrestling" class, it's greco-roman and given by five-time Olympian Doug Yates who won gold at the 1979 Pan American Games. It's not really open to new comers and it's usually Doug, his son and the Barreiro Twins (Thomas and Phillip), but if you ask, they will let you join (they are super cool).
I will say that Firas incorporates a lot of wrestling into his BJJ system. A lot of cage wrestling drills and No-Gi wrestling. No-Gi BJJ is definitely very high level at Tristar, I won't take anything away from that.
My concern is that, there is zero structure when it comes to training camps.

So basically there is no real camp, guys just go there to spar and hit pads and whatnot without some structure that leads them to peak around fight time?

 

[DatSamboKid]

So basically there is no real camp, guys just go there to spar and hit pads and whatnot without some structure that leads them to peak around fight time?

No camp. You can definitely acquire some BJJ skills moving up there, but don't go to Tristar if you're looking for structure, you'll end up planning your own training camps.

 

[chinarice]

First of all id just like to say, I think this was probably the best Kevin Lee has looked in all of his past fights.

His boxing was sharp, moved well, solid jab, good kicks. He outstruck Tony in the first round

And the 2nd was very competitive on the feet with Tony barely edging it

Lee took him down, passed his gaurd, mounted him, took his back and threw some serious punches on him. If he had 30 more seconds, he very well could have finished it.. Tony was getting fucked up really bad

As the fight went on, Tony's pace, cardio and toughness began to take over, he started flowing and got sharper / more technical. Threw a sick standing elbow, his elbows from the bottom throughout the fight were amazing too

This fight happened shortly after Lee lost his head coach. He seemed very on point here relative to all his later fights, put everything together well, fought smart, moved well, transitioned well.. Compared with his last few where he more or less felt directionless without a proper head coach to guide him



If Lee can continue to build on this form under new coach Firaz Zahabi / GSP and fix some of his issues surrounding cardio and energy management, we could very well see Lee as a champ in the future.

Everyone's sleeping on him now because that's what losses do on sherdog but it's impossible to watch this fight and not see the immense talent, well roundedness and potential in the 25 year old Kevin Lee. Which is precisely why GSP has spoken so highly of him

This is probably blasphemy to say here but Lee at 25 years old against Tony is better than GSP was at the same age. A fair bit better actually. Which is saying a lot about what he can potentially accomplish if him and his team put the pieces together

TKO GSP beats any version of Kevin Lee

 

[FrankMirFan89]

That's a good point. Lee was coming off a five fight win streak and that was definitely the best version of Lee.

 

[Fukkup]

First of all id just like to say, I think this was probably the best Kevin Lee has looked in all of his past fights.

His boxing was sharp, moved well, solid jab, good kicks. He outstruck Tony in the first round

And the 2nd was very competitive on the feet with Tony barely edging it

Lee took him down, passed his gaurd, mounted him, took his back and threw some serious punches on him. If he had 30 more seconds, he very well could have finished it.. Tony was getting fucked up really bad

As the fight went on, Tony's pace, cardio and toughness began to take over, he started flowing and got sharper / more technical. Threw a sick standing elbow, his elbows from the bottom throughout the fight were amazing too

This fight happened shortly after Lee lost his head coach. He seemed very on point here relative to all his later fights, put everything together well, fought smart, moved well, transitioned well.. Compared with his last few where he more or less felt directionless without a proper head coach to guide him



If Lee can continue to build on this form under new coach Firaz Zahabi / GSP and fix some of his issues surrounding cardio and energy management, we could very well see Lee as a champ in the future.

Everyone's sleeping on him now because that's what losses do on sherdog but it's impossible to watch this fight and not see the immense talent, well roundedness and potential in the 25 year old Kevin Lee. Which is precisely why GSP has spoken so highly of him

This is probably blasphemy to say here but Lee at 25 years old against Tony is better than GSP was at the same age. A fair bit better actually. Which is saying a lot about what he can potentially accomplish if him and his team put the pieces together

Can someone please explain to me why Kevin Lee is so hyped ? I really can't understand it.