Just Rewatched Tony Ferguson vs Kevin Lee

[MescalineDreams]

Lee strikes me as one of those guys that has all the talent in the world but just cant really put it perfectly together.

He will have a career of winning a few and then losing to a guy he should beat on paper and never having a champion level run

He hadn't had a head coach since the Tony fight

Basically just doing it all himself / winging it

I think a lot of that directionless / seeming inability to put the pieces together is from not having a proper camp / coaching staff

During the Tony fight, he seemed quite the opposite of what he's shown in his last few

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

You're impression is wrong my friend, Firas* isn't what MMA media portraits him as being. He is an opportunist that leveraged GSP's success to perfection. He hasn't built any champion from the ground up, GSP and Rory were pro fighters long before moving to Tristar. GSP always had a plethora of coaches guiding him at all times. The idea of Firas being the master mind behind his success is simply wrong. I hope I'm wrong, but I'm willing to bet Kevin Lee isn't going to do more than 3 training camps over there. Remember this.

wait i don't get it, you're willing to bet Kevin Lee won't do more than 3 training camps there but you hope you're wrong? if Tristar is really that shitty why would you hope he stays?

also why do you have that opinion of Firas? i'm just curious, it seems you may know something we don't?

 

[Thy]

Based on mma history, how good you look in training, to your partners, and in fights just doesn't matter much. In the end, you're winning or you're not and he's not winning much lately.

 

[DatSamboKid]

Go on...

wait i don't get it, you're willing to bet Kevin Lee won't do more than 3 training camps there but you hope you're wrong? if Tristar is really that shitty why would you hope he stays?

also why do you have that opinion of Firas? i'm just curious, it seems you may know something we don't?

I trained/fought out of that gym and also managed it.
What I meant "by hoping I'm wrong" is that I don't wish for Kevin Lee to fail, I'd love for him to succeed and same thing goes for any pro fighter. But, with that being said, I doubt he does more than 3 training camps in Montreal before moving to ATT.

 

[DatSamboKid]

But Firas* is definitely highly intelligent, philosophical and seems to have a strong mind for mma as an outside observer, there's definitely a reason why GSP has opted for Firas* in his corner, even above guys like Greg Jackson. Without a doubt he does bring something to the table and it's his mind

Regardless, it's clear that Lee wants some of what GSP has to rub off on him, a big part of moving up there is likely training with and picking GSP's mind himself, not just Firas*

Saying Firas*** is highly intelligent is pushing it, but he is definitely very knowledgable in martial arts. And yes, he does bring something to the table. He has unique insights on certain aspects of the game, has good oratory skills, not to mention his very good jujitsu skills. All I'm saying, from personal experience, he is far from being the "coach" MMA media and this forum believes he is. The gym is not half of what it used to be in 2009, most of the pro don't train there full time and GSP only showed up for pro sparring for the majority of his training camps. Tristar hasn't given birth to a world champ.

 

[The ScorpioN]

They're literally protecting Khabib from his worst match-up (Gillespie) by making fighter Kevin Lee take him out.
I always thought a motivated good game plan fighter Kevin Lee would be a nightmare for anybody at LW. GSP will bring out his full potential. After he gets past Gillespie (will be a very tough fight) he'll go on to maul Islam.

 

[ChumpyKiwi]

I'm worried about him training at Tristar now, because I know for a fact that the gym is overrated and he isn't getting the coaching he should be getting

What gym do you think would be a good fit for him?

 

[kevinramsdell]

Unfortunately for you and the rest of the Kevin Lee beta fan boys he is a one dimensional fighter. When he takes guys down he works immediately to get their back and look for a rear naked choke.

we haven’t seen Tony fight aggressive wrestlers but trust when I tell you; Tony loves being on his back. Dude has some of the best BJJ and can submit guys from any position. Just like he did to 2-round gas tank Kevin Lee and made ol boy tap with a triangle.

not saying Lee doesn’t have potential, but he has a ton of raw tools and is far to one dimensional to be anything more than a gatekeeper at 155, 165, or 170.

First of all id just like to say, I think this was probably the best Kevin Lee has looked in all of his past fights.

His boxing was sharp, moved well, solid jab, good kicks. He outstruck Tony in the first round

And the 2nd was very competitive on the feet with Tony barely edging it

Lee took him down, passed his gaurd, mounted him, took his back and threw some serious punches on him. If he had 30 more seconds, he very well could have finished it.. Tony was getting fucked up really bad

As the fight went on, Tony's pace, cardio and toughness began to take over, he started flowing and got sharper / more technical. Threw a sick standing elbow, his elbows from the bottom throughout the fight were amazing too

This fight happened shortly after Lee lost his head coach. He seemed very on point here relative to all his later fights, put everything together well, fought smart, moved well, transitioned well.. Compared with his last few where he more or less felt directionless without a proper head coach to guide him



If Lee can continue to build on this form under new coach Firaz Zahabi / GSP and fix some of his issues surrounding cardio and energy management, we could very well see Lee as a champ in the future.

Everyone's sleeping on him now because that's what losses do on sherdog but it's impossible to watch this fight and not see the immense talent, well roundedness and potential in the 25 year old Kevin Lee. Which is precisely why GSP has spoken so highly of him

This is probably blasphemy to say here but Lee at 25 years old against Tony is better than GSP was at the same age. A fair bit better actually. Which is saying a lot about what he can potentially accomplish if him and his team put the pieces together

 

[Psychojoe86]

Kevin lee fell from grace since then, but he did look very promising in the Ferguson fight, especially now in hindsight

 

[BigDramaShow26]

He always looks good until he gets tired then it's over. Considering it has happened in 4 out 5 of his losses I dont expect it to change.

 

[Rdude92]

He always looks good until he gets tired then it's over. Considering it has happened in 4 out 5 of his losses I dont expect it to change.

Yeah. His heart is not championship material.

 

[eddi]

tony get rocked on purpose, thats when the fight starts for him

 

[MescalineDreams]

Saying Firas*** is highly intelligent is pushing it, but he is definitely very knowledgable in martial arts. And yes, he does bring something to the table. He has unique insights on certain aspects of the game, has good oratory skills, not to mention his very good jujitsu skills. All I'm saying, from personal experience, he is far from being the "coach" MMA media and this forum believes he is. The gym is not half of what it used to be in 2009, most of the pro don't train there full time and GSP only showed up for pro sparring for the majority of his training camps. Tristar hasn't given birth to a world champ.

Highly intelligent is relative I suppose, depending on the applied standard but I watched his 3 hour podcast with rogan. He's quite bright. He also has a podcast of his owns, seems to have some respectable martial arts iq

In this case, I think it's less about the overall gym / training partners therein and more about someone like Lee being able to pick the brain of both Firaz and GSP. Both of whom who can share insights and wisdom very relavent to Lee's career trajectory. Given that GSP is / was a very similar style of fighter. If a bit of what GSP had rubs off on Lee then it's a successful trip.

One of my old training partners used to train there, I also didn't get the impression that it was that special. But in this case I don't think that's what it's about

But yeah, that said, you may be right in that he doesn't spend more than three camps there. Who knows. Actually I think he's already splitting time between Montreal and Vegas

 

[MescalineDreams]

Unfortunately for you and the rest of the Kevin Lee beta fan boys he is a one dimensional fighter. When he takes guys down he works immediately to get their back and look for a rear naked choke.

we haven’t seen Tony fight aggressive wrestlers but trust when I tell you; Tony loves being on his back. Dude has some of the best BJJ and can submit guys from any position. Just like he did to 2-round gas tank Kevin Lee and made ol boy tap with a triangle.

not saying Lee doesn’t have potential, but he has a ton of raw tools and is far to one dimensional to be anything more than a gatekeeper at 155, 165, or 170.

Imagine some random sherdogger calling me a beta

Cute

I am a fanboy of nobody

I simply call it as I see it

Potential is just that, potential. It doesn't guarantee anything

How you can watch his fight against Tony and consider him a one dimensional fighter, you'd have to be completely retarded. You have no idea what your watching or talking about

 

[kevinramsdell]

He’s shown throughout his career that he’s a one dimensional fighter. Showed off a big takedown that Tony completely welcomed before exerting all the energy he had and gassing himself.

not quite sure what you’re thinking he did that was so special because I saw an explosive kid go out there and think he could finish one of the best vets in the business with a slam and some shitty punches on top. Not to mention his wins come from decisions or from rear naked chokes. “One dimensional” at its finest my little beta friend.

Imagine some random sherdogger calling me a beta

Cute

I am a fanboy of nobody

I simply call it as I see it

Potential is just that, potential. It doesn't guarantee anything

How you can watch his fight against Tony and consider him a one dimensional fighter, you'd have to be completely retarded. You have no idea what your watching or talking about

 

[JoshTehV]

A typical Tony Ferguson fight is like that exam you only studied day before, almost failed but managed to get a decent score. Like his fights with Lee and Vannata. The man adapts and survives very well for what it's worth.

you ar ethis most articualted freshly banned yellwo belt ive seen thus far

 

[honzo]

Kevin Lee is relevant because he dresses like a 18 year old and he talks a bit of trash.
He's not relevant in any weight class and Hella overrated.

 

[MescalineDreams]

He’s shown throughout his career that he’s a one dimensional fighter. Showed off a big takedown that Tony completely welcomed before exerting all the energy he had and gassing himself.

not quite sure what you’re thinking he did that was so special because I saw an explosive kid go out there and think he could finish one of the best vets in the business with a slam and some shitty punches on top. Not to mention his wins come from decisions or from rear naked chokes. “One dimensional” at its finest my little beta friend.

I've taken shits more alpha than you'll ever be

Lee has pretty good boxing, solid kicks, great wrestling, top game / underrated grappling. He's skilled everywhere. Not sure anyone could possibly think Lee has one dimensional to their skillset unless they're retarded

That said, sounds like you probably need to rewatch the fight and remove whatever bias your holding

What I will say is that in his last few fights, he has seemed directionless, lacked timing, purpose, transitioned poorly and all around just seemed somewhat lost.. Which could perhaps give the illusion of a fighter being less versatile than they actually are / could be

The Tony fight was really the last time I can recall that he put it all together and it flowed. After that his head coach committed suicide and you seen some regression in him I feel

But yeah, clearly a very skilled fighter in all areas at 25 years old

Sounds like you either have something against him , are biased in some way or are just an idiot with low fight iq

 

[K-Bag]

Tony takes damage on purpose, he wants people to know he was in a fight once it's over.

 

[Natural Order]

He should train at Rothwell mma. His dancing, as of now, is meh at best.