Just rewatched Fedor versus Werdum

[MMAJunkie]

He's not the GOAT and never will be kid

Yeah he is kid

 

[Deleted member 110072]

He got exposed by Werdum.

Also, when has Fedor ever fought a solid boxer with good defense prior to fighting Arlovski?

Big Nog was a solid offensive boxer but his defense was neevr great. Cro Cop was more a kickboxer whose was cautious of Fedor's takedown. Big Foot was not cautious of Fedor's takedown and knew that to stand with him he had to apply defensive head movememts to avoid Fedor's punches. Werdum did the same against Bigfoot back at that time and he would had PROBABLY appied the same movements against Fedor this time around.

Sorry but your just talking about latter day UFC hype there, Nogs boxing defence by MMA standards was very good indeed and he actually took very few clean big punches standing in Pride, go and watch his fight with Sergei for example who destroyed guys like Rizzo, Ninja and Overeem in that era brutally yet could not land anything big on Nog(who did unlike Werdum actually enguage him standing wans wasn't shooting for takeodwns constantly).

 

[Ananth]

I'm not so sure that Fedor actually hurt Werdum. Looks like Werdum is doing his usual "get touched anywhere and pull guard" routine. He does it against everyone, even against Browne. Still no shame at all about getting caught by Werdum, or losing to TRT Bigfoot/Hendo for that matter.

None of these punches catch Werdum. Werdum was just baiting and Fedor fell for it. Fedor has been like this late in his career. Its like all the stardom and pressure has got to him, as if he feels a necessity to finish the fight in the first round with a highlight reel KO. The cold calculated Fedor from 2005 would have ravaged Werdum/Maldanado.

 

[lsa]

It was gods will that Fedor lost, nothing more nothing less.

Did God bet on the fight?
And if he did is that proofs that God is in Las Vegas?

 

[lsa]

So who is?

Minowaman!

 

[King Cobra]

Sorry but your just talking about latter day UFC hype there, {/quote]

What hype? I was a amateur boxer. I am talking from my owned trained eye.

I don't know what hype you are talking about.

Nogs boxing defence by MMA standards was very good indeed and he actually took very few clean big punches standing in Pride, go and watch his fight with Sergei for example who destroyed guys like Rizzo, Ninja and Overeem in that era brutally yet could not land anything big on Nog(who did unlike Werdum actually enguage him standing wans wasn't shooting for takeodwns constantly).

Yes, Nog looked slick with his defense against Sergei. I will give you that. But Sergei was also very cautious of being taken down so of course he did not want to over extend his attack. Plus he could not land anything big because Nog was great at countering while taking shots due to his granite chin and Sergie did not want to risk getting countered and caught.

I think all those fights took a toll on Big Nog which deteriorated his reflexes little by little.

 

[King Cobra]

Sorry but your just talking about latter day UFC hype there, Nogs boxing defence by MMA standards was very good indeed and he actually took very few clean big punches standing in Pride, go and watch his fight with Sergei for example who destroyed guys like Rizzo, Ninja and Overeem in that era brutally yet could not land anything big on Nog(who did unlike Werdum actually enguage him standing wans wasn't shooting for takeodwns constantly).

Yes, Nog looked slick with his defense against Sergei. I will give you that. But Sergei was also very cautious of being taken down so of course he did not want to over extend his attack. Plus he could not land anything big because Nog was great at countering while taking shots due to his granite chin and Sergie did not want to risk getting countered and caught.

I think all those fights took a toll on Big Nog which deteriorated his reflexes little by little.

 

[King Cobra]

Yeah he is kid

That's your opinion kid.

 

[HHJ]

you guys ever see a hw streak,and it seems like oh shit,this guy,hes gonna be the guy but it dont happen?

With Fedor,every fight was like holy shit when is this guy gonna fuckin lose allready

youd see haters going GODDAMIT WE ALMOST HAD HIM,like when he fought arlovski. It just went on and on and on. Mirko was supposed to be the guy right? Fedor hung on for like 5 yrs more AFTER that.

it was a long hard dark decade of tears for them

and glory and honor and celebration and tits for those on the right side,blessed is he

 

[Deleted member 110072]

I am talking about boxing defense. Look at the fight. Fedor was trying to knock Bigfoot's head off and he was using head movements to avoid Fedor's punches.

Fedor was a straight forward cast puncher. He would come at you with cast punches and once those punches were studied to be avoided that is when hie offense became more easy to defend against.

Same thing happen to Liddell who love to throw too much of his overhand right, or Wanderlei Silva who loved throwing flurries right down the middle.

As you point out youself he wasn't throwing "casting" punches against Bigfoot, he was winging power hooks like Wanderlei. A big giveaway is Fedor's stance, the key for a lot of casting punches is actually that as you throw them you bring your head/body moves downwards so that your both harder to counter and can potentially get underhooks on your opponent if you end up in the clinch. Against Bigfoot this rarely happens, Fedor is throwing big left/right combo's remaining upright as he does it, which is why Bigfoot can catch him with that straight counter.

That was just a sloppy performance and actually I think he was performing better than that shortly before and indeed even afterwards. I suspect motivation and training was a key issue, after that performance vs shifted back to training in the Neatherlands and I think you saw a shift away from brawling but for the recent match with Fabio he stuck with a small local camp and was back to brawling that was as vs Bigfoot easier to defend against just by keeping a high guard. Even then of course Bigfoot didn't win via out striking him but via taking him down.

The biggest decline in latter era Fedor was I think clearly his grappling where as his striking was more about a shift towards looking for quick finishes. He could and did get them earlier in his career but this wasn't always what he was after often looking to grapple instead. Fedor around 08-09 was still an excellent striker, perhaps a bit more hittable due to losing some speed and being more aggressive but he was still quite defencively minded timing a smaller number of shots not brawling. Sylvia/Arlovski/Rogers didn't really land any clean big shots on him standing and his offence wasn't exactly "easy to avoid" was it?

That's nothing like Chuck at all who never had a great defence and had a UFC championship run where he was actually past his best against grapplers without much power before getting repeatedly KOed when the standard of striking improved.

 

[sadclown]

Coulda, shoulda, woulda... blah blah blah...

Get over it, people. Fedor got whupped fair and square. No need to imagine fantasy scenarios to have him win.

that said, Fedor GOAT.

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Yes, Nog looked slick with his defense against Sergei. I will give you that. But Sergei was also very cautious of being taken down so of course he did not want to over extend his attack. Plus he could not land anything big because Nog was great at countering while taking shots due to his granite chin and Sergie did not want to risk getting countered and caught.

I think all those fights took a toll on Big Nog which deteriorated his reflexes little by little.

Well isn't the threat of the ability to counter part of yout defence? beyond that though you can see Nog does clearly slip some punches and generally show good timing in that fight, Sergei needs to go to the body often as a result.

I see very little evidence that Bigfoot has a superior defence to Nog, I see a lot of evidence that Fedor was not the same fighter anymore when he faced him. Indeed I think prime Nog had better boxing defence than anyone fighting at HW today in the UFC.

 

[HHJ]

Coulda, shoulda, woulda... blah blah blah...

Get over it, people. Fedor got whupped fair and square. No need to imagine fantasy scenarios to have him win.

that said, Fedor GOAT.

not whupped. Just merely a victim of the law of averages.

 

[Miiiiiiighty]

Even before this fight Fedor had been slipping. It just finally caught up to him here.

He had been slpping since the Tim fight which was the last one where he displayed aggression, pinpoint accuracy, speed and power..
Could even have started slipping before but the Tim Zuluing hid that..
It was visible/noticeable in the AA fight and his trainers said he lost a step and didn't even train properly for this fight ( I remember him spending the majority of his " camp" on a film set in thailand )
He probably had been slipping since 2007-2008 which correspond to 31-32 years old aka the period where a non doped male athlete will start to stagnate or regress physically..

 

[edirp]

It was just a hoax. Fedor has zero defeats. Don't believe what you saw or read.

 

[Miiiiiiighty]

Well isn't the ability to counter part of yout defence? beyond that though you can see Nog does clearly slip some punches and generally show good timing in that fight, Sergei needs to go to the body often as a result.

I see very little evidence that Bigfoot has a superior defence to Nog, I see a lot of evidence that Fedor was not the same fighter anymore when he faced him. Indeed I think prime Nog had better boxing defence than anyone fighting at HW today in the UFC.

Anyone who thinks Nog was still in his " prime " in the UFC need to watch this fight ...
His striking skill was like night and day different against someone who won a silver medal in the asian games in amateur boxing...
That fight was a great HW back and forth battle

 

[Mga223]

Doom wasn't hurt, he knew fedor would follow him to the ground and it worked perfectly, don't understand why fedor fans try and play the "he caught him before getting caught"

 

[Deleted member 110072]

Anyone who thinks Nog was still in his " prime " in the UFC need to watch this fight ...
His striking skill was like night and day different against someone who won a silver medal in the asian games in amateur boxing...
That fight was a great HW back and forth battle

Honestly I think Pride in the mid 00's was the highest standard of striking we've seen in MMA so far, big finishes yes but also a lot more defencive technique on display than today where its more a question of who drops first.

 

[vintagemmafan]

I wonder what typed of drug you are using because I am sure Joe Rogan would love to have some of that.

It was evident that his passion was no longer there?

He was trying to rip Werdum, Hendo and Bigfoot's heads off their bodies.

He was fighting as aggressive as always. But Werdum and Bigfoot were BJJ Blackbelts. That has always been his biggest challenged. He hardly ever fought BJJ dudes. The best BJJ grappler he fought prior to Werdum was Ricardo Arona who was a Light heavyweight and it is safe to say that Arona could had been given a decision win in that fight.

No sorry I think you're a delusional UFC fan that believes all the talking points on this site from other delusional young UFC fans that weren't fans when Fedor was competing because if you or the stooges that perpetuate this crap were around when he was on top you would know that he fought Nogueira 3 times and each of those times he dove into his guard as to challenge Nogueira to submit him which he wasn't able to do because Fedor was pounding his head in,Fedor wasn't throwing wild wide looping punches like he did in his win over Rogers and losses,he was very calculated and precise in what he did,after the Arlovski fight he became
completely reckless and nearly lost to Rogers,for you to say that he fought aggressive as he always did just shows that you don't know shit and are simply parrotting the ignorant opinions of young UFC fans on this site.

You say BJJ black belts are Fedor's weakness and then use
Arona as the only one he's fought but fail to mention Nogueira who at the time had the best guard in the sport and also used Werdum as a punching bag and out jiu jitsu's him as well,but I can totally tell you're a new fan that only know the last 7 or 8 years of UFC,its just laughable to say such an absurd thing
like his weakness is BJJ fighters when he single handely gave the best BJJ fighter at hw brain damage thus ruining his career,you're ignorance and lack of knowledge is rediculous.

Another thing also,I can tell you think Werdum is the best BJJ fighter at hw and so do a lot of posters on this site,but the reality is he submitted not a past it zombie version of Nogueira but a completely shot version and even in that fight
he was getting gassed and out struck early on,even though
Werdum ended up subbing him it really isn't impressive at all considering Werdum was pretty much still in prime form while Nogueira should have been forced into retirement long
before that fight and the point I'm getting around to is that these two fought twice and there first fight was much more relevant than the second,that second fight doesn't count for shit in my opinion,at least when they first fought they were both in their prime including Werdum who had already had
wins over top competition like Zentsov,Einomo,Overeem and
a close fight with Kharitonov and in that first fight Nogueira
owned Werdum everywhere it was actually a beating,but this fight doesn't get talked about because the new fans are ignorant to the history of the sport and just check things on fight finder and believe whatever Dana White or other noobs have to say.

So with that said I think its safe to say that Nogueira>Werdum in BJJ and mma as well,Fedor has no weakness against BJJ because he beat the best BJJ fighter at hw 2 times at his own game,its also important to note that Fedor's career started in 2000 and his first real loss occurred in 2010 which would tell me that he was clearly past it and that 2 of the 3 fighters that beat him started their careers much later than him and that is why your entire response is
way off the mark.

 

[Mr Wings]

7 years ranked #1

7 consecutive title fight wins

7 top 5 wins

7 victories over Pride/UFC champions