Just how good was Wanderlei Silva?

[gono btw]

There is no excuse for a champion to be fighting against ANYONE with a losing streak or a fighter's first MMA fight ever.

No excuse.

Not when PRIDE did it.

Not when the UFC does it.

No excuse.

Context.

 

[faustian]

Legacy wise? Of course, but skill wise Shogun was the better of the two. The thing is that Shogun had a short lived prime, that's it.

Shogun is and always will be my favorite fighter all-time but I can't say I disagree with this. I think he would've bested Wand H2H in Pride but Wand definitely had a greater Pride legacy. Overall tho (Pride + UFC) I give the legacy edge to Shogun as he was somehow able to come back from crippling injuries to capture gold in the UFC. 2005 GP + UFC strap alone makes Shogun one of the most accomplished LHWs in UFC history

 

[VaskisRanger]

In short: watch´em fights.

if you read my earlier post you’ll know I’ve been watching since pride

In short: MMA has evolved, its a different game. Wanderlei’s bullrushing pride tactics are dated and he’d lose a ton of decisions modern day. It’s a wrestlers game. The cage also doesn’t help at all nor the lack of soccer kicks that was a big part of his game, and there’s no denying PEDs helps that style of fighting greatly, too.

 

[gono btw]

if you read my earlier post you’ll know I’ve been watching since pride

Then ask yourself: who´s more well-rounded @ LHW , Volkan or someone like Babalu?

 

[VaskisRanger]

Then ask yourself: who´s more well-rounded @ LHW , Volkan or someone like Babalu?

I appreciate what you’re saying, but even so - its a different game now.

Volkan versus Wanderlei in Pride in 2003 in a ring, maybe he loses - but I wouldn’t bet on it.

Volkan versus a 2003 Wanderlei in UFC next week in a cage, Volkan wins 9/10.

 

[bufetadanacara]

Jones
Gustafson
DC
Mousasi
Rory Macdonald
Anderson Silva
Chael Sonnen
Bader
OSP
Reyes
Latiffi
Volkan
GSP
Woodley
Romero
Branch
Whittaker
Gastelum
Rockhold
Jan Blachowicz

Just off the top of my head... if any of these guys fought 2003 Wanderlei in a cage next week at any weight/catch weight, he loses

And trust me; that’s just the top of the iceberg - if I cared more about your opinion then I’d list 50 more

1/10

Weak troll effort, try harder.




Wand was, at one point, the very best in his weight class. That's about all I can say. I don't know how I can fairly compare him to anyone before or after. Due to his longevity and the way he completely dominated his opponents, I don't know how anyone could not have him among the all time greats at his weight class.

 

[gono btw]

I appreciate what you’re saying, but even so - its a different game now.

Volkan versus Wanderlei in Pride in 2003 in a ring, maybe he loses - but I wouldn’t bet on it.

Volkan versus a 2003 Wanderlei in UFC next week in a cage, Volkan wins 9/10.

Not talkin´about hypothetical match-ups here, talkin´ about your original statement:

"but mixed martial arts has evolved 1000% since 2003, everyone was one dimensional in 2003 by today’s standards"

So who´s more well-rounded @ LHW , Volkan or someone like Babalu?

 

[VaskisRanger]

1/10

Weak troll effort, try harder.




Wand was, at one point, the very best in his weight class. That's about all I can say. I don't know how I can fairly compare him to anyone before or after. Due to his longevity and the way he completely dominated his opponents, I don't know how anyone could not have him among the all time greats at his weight class.

Not at all, it was a fun time back in Pride but in 2003 the term MMA was barely even coined. That’s because they were fighters, not true mixed martial artists.

Like I said in the thread earlier, Wanderlei’s style and bullrushing tactics don’t transpire to the cage; nor does the UFC ruleset.

Agree to disagree

 

[bongwater]

but where does kevin lee fit into all of this?

 

[JustBreed]

Oh sheet, did the guy get busted for them? Or you just assuming he was on them cause he was that good?

Have you seen the size of the cunt back then?

 

[blackjackz]

Pride was insane back in the day... so many fighters were totally jacked-up on the juice.... Wanderlei was both a beast and super entertaining... during this era, he is one of my favourite fighters of all time... people will point to the fact he was on roids, but so was everyone in the upper echelon of the sport... not the greatest all-time LHW or MW, but he was awesome...

 

[HHJ]

Jon Jones is my example of someone who is actually well rounded - I can give plenty more.

Just because wanderlei used to go for more takedowns etc doesn’t mean he was ever really any good at it, and any decent wrestler of the last decade would put him on his back and grind him out, fact

Wanderlei trip takedowns were very good and only a dummy would say otherwise

 

[Ozze]

Scariest mofo in Pride days.

Wand was the all-out-violence star.

 

[HHJ]

Book the Champion against the top contender regardless of country of origin.

Definitely not match the champion against fighters on losing streaks like PRIDE did with Wanderlei Silva facing Alexander Otsuka (3 fight losing streak prior to fighting Wand), Kiyoshi Tamura (3 fight losing streak prior to fighting Wand), Ikuhisa Minowa (lost previous fight before fighting Wand) or guys who never should be fighting the champion at all like Tatsuya Iwasaki (who never fought MMA before, making his MMA debut against the champ.)

Meanwhile, Rampage Jackson had to win 7 fights in a row to get his shot against Wand and that was only because he fought his way through the 2003 MW tournament.

If you're ok with that, you're a moron.

Japan was very different. What I heard was that sometimes wandy and crocop would fight on a card and just stay in Japan to do promos,commercials etc and then a few weeks later appear on a bushido card or something against a Japanese guy. For whatever reason those fights made money for the company and mirko and wand got a pay opportunity. you wanna hold pride under the standards of what mma is "supposed" to be like. They did whatever they wanted,and UFC is starting to do the same shit in their own way.

 

[VaskisRanger]

Not talkin´about hypothetical match-ups here, talkin´ about your original statement:

"but mixed martial arts has evolved 1000% since 2003, everyone was one dimensional in 2003 by today’s standards"

So who´s more well-rounded @ LHW , Volkan or someone like Babalu?

Volkan beats prime Babalu,

Wanderlei trip takedowns were very good and only a dummy would say otherwise

Yeah good for the era when no one could defend a trip takedown because they had no idea what it was because MMA was NEW and so was the internet

 

[HHJ]

Volkan beats prime Babalu,


Yeah good for the era when no one could defend a trip takedown because they had no idea what it was because MMA was NEW and so was the internet

Even people who only have street fights know what a trip takedown is

 

[bjpenngoat]

Prime Wandy is the greatest beserker in history. Truly great heart and embodied the Bushido spirit of fight hard and fight anyone anywhere. A little Short on talent but long on fearlessness.

 

[gono btw]

Volkan beats prime Babalu,


Yeah good for the era when no one could defend a trip takedown because they had no idea what it was because MMA was NEW and so was the internet

Again, My question is not about match-ups:

who´s more well-rounded @ LHW , Volkan or someone like Babalu?

 

[eiyuu]

Japan was very different. What I heard was that sometimes wandy and crocop would fight on a card and just stay in Japan to do promos,commercials etc and then a few weeks later appear on a bushido card or something against a Japanese guy. For whatever reason those fights made money for the company and mirko and wand got a pay opportunity. you wanna hold pride under the standards of what mma is "supposed" to be like. They did whatever they wanted,and UFC is starting to do the same shit in their own way.

I will hold both PRIDE and the UFC to standards. Having your champ fight deserving contenders shouldn't be hard to do or be overlooked.

Or excused.

 

[HHJ]

Prime Wandy is the greatest beserker in history. Truly great heart and embodied the Bushido spirit of fight hard and fight anyone anywhere. A little Short on talent but long on fearlessness.

Not short on talent at all fuck that shit. I was gonna like your post til you said that dumb shit