Judo techniques: Why don't they beat wrestlers?

[Crossface9]

many people will counter with the statement that fedor was the exception rather than the rule.

Yeah.... Its not like he just did Judo. He is a Grand Master in Sambo for crying out loud. Every one cross trains but hes known for both, but if anything his Sambo.

 

[Q mystic]

Sometimes judoka do beat wrestlers. It's just that a fast shot and fast scrambling is hard to beat.

A better sample size for judo vs wrestling would be to look at M1 Global, as M1 seems to cater to a better balance of both judo and wrestling strong countries. The histories & participation there are much more even than UFC where bjj and folk-wrestling are stronger. Still tho, like above, the distance shot and scrambling of folk is hard to beat.

Also, Shields was not the best wrestler that Akiyama fought. Aki fought 2 Olympians (one a silver medalist) before UFC.

Maybe due to lack any decently organized judo for mma concept, it seems many judoka suffer an identity crisis in mma. They don't know if they are wrestlers or bjjers. Aki looks wrestler, but Takimoto or Bu Kyung Jung (both oly medalists) for instance, while incredible throwers, would often seem to prefer fighting from their backs.

 

[Rod1]

Yeah.... Its not like he just did Judo. He is a Grand Master in Sambo for crying out loud. Every one cross trains but hes known for both, but if anything his Sambo.

Fedor was on the judo national team in Russia and he was doing Judo seriously before he went MMA.

Sambo and Judo are pretty much trained in the same mats in Russia.

 

[Kaffe]

Who cares about Wrasslers vs Beejayjayaers vs Judookas anyways? What I want to know is whether American Football is a better base for MMA than Basketball.

I'm thinking football is the superior base. Brendan Schaub is a phenom, and his base is arguably football. His technical approach might be more due to his training in Lacrosse though.

I also heard Aldo's base is Soccer, so maybe that is the ultimate base?

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Sometimes judoka do beat wrestlers. It's just that a fast shot and fast scrambling is hard to beat.

A better sample size for judo vs wrestling would be to look at M1 Global, as M1 seems to cater to a better balance of both judo and wrestling strong countries. The histories & participation there are much more even than UFC where bjj and folk-wrestling are stronger. Still tho, like above, the distance shot and scrambling of folk is hard to beat.

Also, Shields was not the best wrestler that Akiyama fought. Aki fought 2 Olympians (one a silver medalist) before UFC.

Maybe due to lack any decently organized judo for mma concept, it seems many judoka suffer an identity crisis in mma. They don't know if they are wrestlers or bjjers. Aki looks wrestler, but Takimoto or Bu Kyung Jung (both oly medalists) for instance, while incredible throwers, would often seem to prefer fighting from their backs.

Well that might have something to do with the fact that in Russia there's no folky style, I imagine a Greco vs a judoka will be much even than a folky vs a judoka, folky is really what makes the difference, as you have said it...

 

[laidbackjudoka]

Who cares about Wrasslers vs Beejayjayaers vs Judookas anyways? What I want to know is whether American Football is a better base for MMA than Basketball.

I'm thinking football is the superior base. Brendan Schaub is a phenom, and his base is arguably football. His technical approach might be more due to his training in Lacrosse though.

I also heard Aldo's base is Soccer, so maybe that is the ultimate base?

Nope, gotta hand this one to Moto GP.

 

[RJ Green]

anybody wanna organize a forum-wide style vs style tournament? we all fly somewhere in the midwest? qualifier rounds everyone plays 2 people from different styles and then we do double elimination?

 

[Rod1]

Well that might have something to do with the fact that in Russia there's no folky style, I imagine a Greco vs a judoka will be much even than a folky vs a judoka, folky is really what makes the difference, as you have said it...

Why would it? is there even a decent sample of wrestlers in MMA outside of America?

Whats so special about folkstyle, the fact that it involves a lot of groundwork? is the groundwork even the same as in MMA? because as far as i can tell folkstyle groundwork is mostly about riding points and groundwork in olympic wrestling is about getting the fall.

Scrambling?

[YT]VLwYTR4nAWs[/YT]

 

[deadlizard]

anybody wanna organize a forum-wide style vs style tournament? we all fly somewhere in the midwest? qualifier rounds everyone plays 2 people from different styles and then we do double elimination?

my bet is on wiz cool c. ninjutsu 4eva

 

[Rod1]

Overall skill and athleticism?

[YT]ptaNak1B3_Q[/YT]

Only a fanboy would call other styles of wrestling as inferior, just because American wrestling has riding points, how many times does someone has to control someone lying facedown in MMA? and when it does its the BJJ way with hooks in, not the wrestling way.

 

[Q mystic]

Why would it? is there even a decent sample of wrestlers in MMA outside of America?

Whats so special about folkstyle, the fact that it involves a lot of groundwork? is the groundwork even the same as in MMA? because as far as i can tell folkstyle groundwork is mostly about riding points and groundwork in olympic wrestling is about getting the fall.

Scrambling?

[YT]VLwYTR4nAWs[/YT]

I don't think it's a big deal or would make that much of a diff, but I remember in an interview with a Russian wrestling coach where he was stating that it was easy to beat Americans (in wrestling) because the Americans would shoot from too far away, but it seems the distance shot work spretty well for wrestlers in mma. I can't see scrambling being a big diff.

Over the years tho, when it came to wrestlers vs judoka in mma, it seems to me the tds are pretty close.

 

[Deleted member 53472]

didn't Karo toss Sanchez left and right in their match?

 

[Q mystic]

didn't Karo toss Sanchez left and right in their match?

Sanchez wasn't a 'wrestler', tho.

 

[selfcritical]

Why would it? is there even a decent sample of wrestlers in MMA outside of America?

Whats so special about folkstyle, the fact that it involves a lot of groundwork? is the groundwork even the same as in MMA? because as far as i can tell folkstyle groundwork is mostly about riding points and groundwork in olympic wrestling is about getting the fall.

Scrambling?

[YT]VLwYTR4nAWs[/YT]

Two things
1) It's really easy to find an MMA gym to join if you're a US wrestler
2) You have to get back up in folkstyle

Number 2 is basically the entire explanation for Chuck Liddell's career

 

[Q mystic]

Two things
1) It's really easy to find an MMA gym to join if you're a US wrestler
2) You have to get back up in folkstyle

Number 2 is basically the entire explanation for Chuck Liddell's career

Dayum. Yeah, #1, for sure, but that #2 is a good point. I didn't even know that.

 

[SFCFighter]

Wow.. are there avid grappling fans on this forum who don't know the difference between folkstyle and freestyle par terre (ground work)????????????

that is almost like not knowing the difference between Judo newaza and BJJ

Having to get back up off bottom and the ref standing you up after 'inactivity' is the biggest difference between folkstyle and freestyle and like selfcritical said, responsible for a lot of the success of wrestle-boxers... look at Liddell vs Crocop, Crocop had a good sprawl but wasn't as good as getting up as Liddell was. Lidell had decades of training just being able to stand back up when someone wants to keep you on the ground.

 

[SFCFighter]

Sanchez wasn't a 'wrestler', tho.

he was a high school state champ

 

[Q mystic]

he was a high school state champ

I didn't know that either. Makes a wrestler in my books.

regarding folk, I think only Americans have that down. American wrestlers for that matter.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Why would it? is there even a decent sample of wrestlers in MMA outside of America?

Whats so special about folkstyle, the fact that it involves a lot of groundwork? is the groundwork even the same as in MMA? because as far as i can tell folkstyle groundwork is mostly about riding points and groundwork in olympic wrestling is about getting the fall.

Scrambling?

[YT]VLwYTR4nAWs[/YT]

I'm no wrestling expert, so I'm not In position to start debating technicalities, but for all I know, folky has a much more ground game, and controlling your opponent On the ground is a big part of it, just as escaping, that added to the fact that you can attack the legs (vs Greco) I think gives the folky wrestlers a very big advantage...

 

[Rod1]

I'm no wrestling expert, so I'm not In position to start debating technicalities, but for all I know, folky has a much more ground game, and controlling your opponent On the ground is a big part of it, just as escaping, that added to the fact that you can attack the legs (vs Greco) I think gives the folky wrestlers a very big advantage...

Controlling is pretty different in MMA where your opponent will play guard, than on wrestling when you control his back with no hooks (because he would just turn over and "pin"you) and are looking to just hold him there riding points.