Judo techniques: Why don't they beat wrestlers?

[SummerStriker]

If we want a new test, with a jacket, of Judo vs. Wrestling, I guess we will find out during the next couple Kudo tournaments.

 

[Crossface9]

Both wrestling and Judo as sports have been watered down for years wrestling used to have subs and Judo started out with the priority of using things that worked in the real world.Both as still great and maybe will have a resurgence. I know people are trying to save catch wrestling.

Absolutely, once I start training submissions, I hope to popularize catch with the people I train with. I do wrestle though, maybe that's an easier crowd to cater to? I would think eventually I'd be able to do a CACC tournament or train at the gym in NJ or the one in NY.

 

[ijustwannasurf]

Also, Aoki isn't a great judo player.

Lolwut

 

[Chute Stomp]

Using Aoki is a strange example, seeing as he trips almost everyone to the ground. He didn't beat Melendez because Melendez is just tailor made to beat him, not that "wrestling always trumps Judo!". Melendez fought a really smart fight, I don't think they clinched even once, and if they did, Melendez quickly backed out. Aoki doesn't really hit big throws, but he's great at off-balancing his opponent and tripping them. That comes from his Judo background. If he gets a clinch, he usually gets the takedown.

 

[DiegoDiegerson]

Every succesful greco roman wrestler in MMA had an extensive folkstyle career beforehand. Most wrestled folkstyle longer then they did greco before going into MMA.

On the other hand, a freestyle wrestler from the States would still have more leg takedown experience total.

There's a Chael Sonnen interview (http://www.mmafighting.com/2013/3/9...en-mma-wrestling-interview-takedowns-ufc-news) where he talks about how, due to the lack of leg takedowns, guys who did Greco have a more upright stance, which translates better when striking is involved.

 

[Rod1]

These folk saying judo techniques dont beat wrestler should watch international wrestling, a lot of what people in this board would consider "judo techniques" are used to great success by people of central asia.

Judo of course is harder to translate to MMA for obvious reasons, which is the gi, also judokas tend to be a minority in modern MMA.

 

[joeytriangles]

The benefit of Greco is the clinch. Wrestlers that have done both generally say that it is easier to learn to hit a good double/high c/single after learning the clinch work in greco, than the other way round. I'm sure Holt will chime in soon and help shed some light on it.

 

[Kozbot]

On the other hand, a freestyle wrestler from the States would still have more leg takedown experience total.

There's a Chael Sonnen interview (http://www.mmafighting.com/2013/3/9...en-mma-wrestling-interview-takedowns-ufc-news) where he talks about how, due to the lack of leg takedowns, guys who did Greco have a more upright stance, which translates better when striking is involved.

Yes. Obviously the greco experience helps the transition to MMA.

 

[biscuitsbrah]

Judo is basically Greco-Roman with a gi. Not to mention wrestlers generally have more experience on the ground.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

The benefit of Greco is the clinch. Wrestlers that have done both generally say that it is easier to learn to hit a good double/high c/single after learning the clinch work in greco, than the other way round. I'm sure Holt will chime in soon and help shed some light on it.

like I said, im not a wrestling expert, but I dont think you can do "the other way around".... every single greco wrestler must have been a folky wrestler before (in the US, and folky is only practiced in the US IIRC)

 

[aus101]

Allow grabbing the back of the shorts or even bring back the jacket in MMA, and you'll see Judoka dominate. The fact is the ruleset ("no grabbing the clothes" and "shorts only") favors wrestling and disfavors Judo.

Funny how everything just seems to "favor wrestling". Do we have to add "can't grab shorts"...

FYI if you were allowed to grab shorts, wrestlers, (and anyone with a brain) would just wear GSP/shogun style pants, which you can't grab... (The wrestling outfit is designed for this very purpose).

Lol at wearing jackets. That was my blue belt bjj friends line last night after his attempts at showing me his sick jits skills were completely neutralised by my grade school wrestling. (It consisted of me trapping his arm in a pseudo kimura until he finally rolled out). "We're evenly matched no gi due to your wrestling experience, In a gi though I'd just control you.... It's meant to represent like a leather jacket on a night out".
I wasn't out wearing a leather jacket though, I was wearing jeans and a t-shirt, or as he classified it "no gi".

 

[jclaudevandamme]

Allow grabbing the back of the shorts or even bring back the jacket in MMA, and you'll see Judoka dominate. The fact is the ruleset ("no grabbing the clothes" and "shorts only") favors wrestling and disfavors Judo.

And if they had a "knifes allowed rule" 100% of the MMA fighters would have a Kali/Eskrima background. If you add "lets allow guns" we can put Billy the Kid as the best P4P MMA fighter.

 

[D3thr0n3d K1ng]

Stupid thread.

Fedor beat a bunch of wrestlers and he came from a Judo/Sambo background.

 

[Charlitos1988]

There needs to be No gi Judo. I think once that happens, you'll see more Judo in MMA.

As for Judo vs Wrestling, hasn't Wrestling been Judo's nemesis for decades? I remember reading an article many years ago asking why Judo practitioners couldn't beat Wrestlers, and that was before the UFC and MMA.

and which was the answer?

 

[Saenchai]

Stupid thread.

Fedor beat a bunch of wrestlers and he came from a Judo/Sambo background.

checkmate.

 

[nefti]

checkmate.

many people will counter with the statement that fedor was the exception rather than the rule.

 

[redaxe]

And if they had a "knifes allowed rule" 100% of the MMA fighters would have a Kali/Eskrima background. If you add "lets allow guns" we can put Billy the Kid as the best P4P MMA fighter.

What's the name of that logical fallacy where you take every argument to its logical extreme?

 

[The Coolman]

What's the name of that logical fallacy where you take every argument to its logical extreme?

Appealing to extremes.

That + ad hominem + straw man = 98% of the arguments on this board.

 

[ShinkanPo]

What's the name of that logical fallacy where you take every argument to its logical extreme?

red Herring? Usually thats how you know if some one is a hater or a fucking troll if they started using "extremes" like that not only they are committing a logical fallacy they also sound stupid.

 

[schmerzwerk]

Perhaps I'm being a Judo pedant but Tai Otoshi isn't a leg throw.

You are absolutely correct right there. What I meant are techniques that are similar to each other or have similarities. And while there are a lot of differences for the judoka, for somebody with no (or little) experience the throws look quite the same.