Judo techniques: Why don't they beat wrestlers?

[Saenchai]

wrestling, specially folky style translates much better to mma than judo, specially the new generation of judo guys that are being borned with the stupid rule about leg attacks.

wrestling is no gi, and folky has much more ground work than modern judo.

But, there are a few judokas who can still get around wrestlers, akiyama did good vs shields, but with the lack of the gi, all those beutiful throws and trips he performed meant squad, because he couldnt control, the lack of gi takes away the control part of the throw seems like....

What if I told you I wanted to do damage and not control? Jk.

All in all really, Judo is great and wrestling is great. Why less judo in MMA; is it not obvious? There are hardly any Judokas in MMA period.. Now Folk style vs greco? Greco all day.

 

[Grrrr]

What if I told you I wanted to do damage and not control? Jk.

All in all really, Judo is great and wrestling is great. Why less judo in MMA; is it not obvious? There are hardly any Judokas in MMA period.. Now Folk style vs greco? Greco all day.

meh...i still prefer folk>freestyle>greco. but to each their own.

 

[Kingbedlam]

There needs to be No gi Judo. I think once that happens, you'll see more Judo in MMA.

As for Judo vs Wrestling, hasn't Wrestling been Judo's nemesis for decades? I remember reading an article many years ago asking why Judo practitioners couldn't beat Wrestlers, and that was before the UFC and MMA.

 

[Kaffe]

I have also wondered how no gi wrestling with more practicioners in MMA could possibly have more athletes with success in a no gi MMA setting than gi wrestling with less practicioners in MMA. It's madness I tells you. Madness!

 

[chrspayn]

I will start off by saying that I love both judo and wrestling. They are both great sports, ton of fun to play, interesting to watch. That said I think it is pretty clear that wrestling has had far more success than judo in MMA, and it is interesting to think about why that might be.

The uniform: In general MMA is a lot more like wrestling then it is like judo as far as the uniform goes. Gripping with the gi where one controls a collar and sleeve is not applicable. In general to hit a judo throw in MMA one has to do it from a tie up that is not where one would have the most practice throwing from. Most wrestling moves would be executed using a set of grips on the opponent that are familiar to the wrestler and much closer to what he practices on a day to day basis.

Punches: In MMA people hit each other. Most of the wrestling techniques are relatively safer to do while being punched, as compared to judo techniques. This is particularly true of shots and moves from the over under tie up. There is some wrestling that goes out the window when you add punches, for example the Russian 2-1 can lead to some fantastic technical wrestling, but it

 

[schmerzwerk]

edit says: chrspayn says everything I wanted to say. His first language is english, so just read his post

At first I would like to say, as a some others have said it in here before me, that there is a bigger number of wrestlers in MMA than judokas. And if we look at them as individuals you can clearly see a trend that most wrestlers cross over in their prime (or even before) while most judokas cross over after this periode. Especially the japanese judokas, which had gold medals from the olympics, had this very problem. Now combining this fact with the sad state of japanese mma you know that there won

 

[MrNN]

In judo is not allowed to grap a leg or a double and finish the TD. The rules and gi restrict its effectiveness in mma. Its just like bjj with GI and the problems the players meet when they do MMA.

The judo players in the futures will probably addapt the game to a no-gi type which will give the wrestlers alot of trouble

 

[Einarr]

If you, as an MMA fighter, would like to pick out certain things of judo I would recommend leg trips. Forget the big throws, they are hard to pull of without the kimono (however, "leg throws" like uchi-mata, tai-otoshi, etc. can work in certin situations) but leg trips, esp. in body lock situations, are golden.

Perhaps I'm being a Judo pedant but Tai Otoshi isn't a leg throw.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

What if I told you I wanted to do damage and not control? Jk.

All in all really, Judo is great and wrestling is great. Why less judo in MMA; is it not obvious? There are hardly any Judokas in MMA period.. Now Folk style vs greco? Greco all day.

sure, take off the soft mat and replace it by concrete or at least hard sand and throws will gain more weight, but as it is, a high amplitude throw rarely generates enough power to do enough damage that will be worth sacrificing control.

 

[Crossface9]

Because they can't

 

[jr jr]

Now Folk style vs greco? Greco all day.

Serious question: Why?

Greco is the most restrictive of the three major wrestling types (in the US). No leg grabs, no trips, etc.....

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Serious question: Why?

Greco is the most restrictive of the three major wrestling types (in the US). No leg grabs, no trips, etc.....

my thoughts... the most successful TD technique in MMA is the double/single, yet a style that ban those attacks should be the best for MMA? I see no logic on that line of thought.

 

[PointyShinyBurn]

my thoughts... the most successful TD technique in MMA is the double/single, yet a style that ban those attack should be the best for MMA? I see no logic on that line of thought.

It's an opinion based on the success of American Greco wrestlers who first spent half their lives doing folk style.

 

[Rjay]

P.S.: For me the best example of what a good judoka is capable of is the Nogueira-Nastula fight. Nastula past his prime with no real MMA training, Nogueira the number 2 guy in his division, and if the would have worn a kimono Nastula would have won the fight.

Perhaps not the best example. With the exception of a nice sweep Nastula didn't do anything in that fight prior to getting KO'd.

 

[QingTian]

It's entirely grip training. To do wrestling in MMA, you largely keep your same style. To do Judo, you need to learn how to set it up and deal with strikes.

It's not that Judo doesn't work because you do see great Judo fighters like Fedor. Just not all of them cross over well. Some try to just drop in straight from Judo with some crappy striking.

In large part because MMA in the US is primarily wrestling and BJJ gyms. The tribal knowledge isn't established for Judo MMA.

But you can see plenty of Judo in Japanese or Russian fighters.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

It's an opinion based on the success of American Greco wrestlers who first spent half their lives doing folk style.

more than half I would say.

 

[Kozbot]

There are two factors IMO

The gi. Despite what some people say, having a gi on makes executing throws MUCH easier. Without those gi grips the technique and success rate drops.

Rules in judo discourage scrambling. A throw will happen and the players will look to the ref to see if they can rumble on the ground. This is retarded

 

[Kozbot]

What if I told you I wanted to do damage and not control? Jk.

All in all really, Judo is great and wrestling is great. Why less judo in MMA; is it not obvious? There are hardly any Judokas in MMA period.. Now Folk style vs greco? Greco all day.

Every succesful greco roman wrestler in MMA had an extensive folkstyle career beforehand. Most wrestled folkstyle longer then they did greco before going into MMA.

 

[Skyrim]

Both wrestling and Judo as sports have been watered down for years wrestling used to have subs and Judo started out with the priority of using things that worked in the real world.Both as still great and maybe will have a resurgence. I know people are trying to save catch wrestling.

 

[Leverage]

Hey all, I was watching the Aoki/Melendez fight earlier and Aoki couldn't seem to even gain a dominant position. It seems the same way in the UFC. Why couldn't someone like Karo Parisyan have a lot of success against wrestlers?

It just seems like Judokas get beat up wrestlers. Why is this?

Thanks!

It makes sense that if you get a jacket wrestler and a non-jacket wrestler and make them wrestle without a jacket on then we'll see the non-jacket wrestler have the better success and i'll tell you why.

Inside trips, outside trips, suplexes, should throws, lateral drops, hip tosses, foot sweeps etc are present in both sports. Judoka and wrestlers use them on each other often. So if the techniques are similar...why do wrestlers have more success?

It's because when wrestling in MMA, there is no jacket. As such...after years of training how to control and set up takedowns on an opponent who's not wearing a jacket it becomes second nature. You have the right key to pull off your techniques.

In judo, they like to use the gi as a method of upper body control, dynamic lower body movement for breaking an opponents balance and then practiced technique for the throw. Grip, off-balance & throw. It's no co-incidence that upper body strength and gripping dominance is such a significant aspect of high level judo. You take away the gi, you take away (or significantly reduce) their method of control.

So when wrestlers meet judoka in a no jacket contest...wrestlers have a better ability to control the opponent, thus enabling them to set up and execute their techniques better than the judoka would be able too. The rules in judo will probably play a big part in the future aswell, but man...i seriously believe if you brought in some of the russian, georgian, iranian, mongolian olympic judoka who have likely grown up training with and around wrestlers you'd find some absolute beasts.

Both sports are great.