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Josh Gross: Safe to say the last 22 years in MMA were as dirty as anything could be.
- Thread starter Frank23
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Until MMA has something on the level of the explosion that MLB dealt with in the mid 2000s, then hes just talking out his ass.
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I've always been on the "almost all fighter use/have used some kind of PED" because ALL the pro and amateur fighters I knew roid/used to roid. No shame in that.
Heck, I used to roid myself.
In High-School, most of the wrestling team was roiding.
UFC anti-doping tests are a joke if you know how to cycle properly, and not a single pro would give up the big advantage that steroids give you (heal faster, train longer/better, actually "feel" younger in a good way, hard to explain, etc)
How do you think Anderson had such a long career, and fought at almost 40 like a 25 years old stud in the prime of his youth? Of course he was roiding his whole career.
IMHO (and from what I've gathered from pro-fighters), the rare high-profile exceptions were Nick and Nate Diaz & Sakuraba
(read his first 2 books, I don't think the 3rd one has been translated yet... a guy who smoked a pack a day and got drunk with his friends almost every night isn't very likely to roid, but I could be wrong, I've also heard that he used to roid in his early pro-wrestling years but it was too much of a hassle and didn't bother with it during his pro-fighter years)
I don't remember any other famous guys that several pros told me "yeah I think this guy wasn't using" about
GSP actually came up a couple times, but it was from guys from his entourage, might have been some bias here, might have been some truth...
Do we still get banned if we name fighters that haven't got popped yet but it's painfully obvious that they are roiding?
RF
Heck, I used to roid myself.
In High-School, most of the wrestling team was roiding.
UFC anti-doping tests are a joke if you know how to cycle properly, and not a single pro would give up the big advantage that steroids give you (heal faster, train longer/better, actually "feel" younger in a good way, hard to explain, etc)
How do you think Anderson had such a long career, and fought at almost 40 like a 25 years old stud in the prime of his youth? Of course he was roiding his whole career.
IMHO (and from what I've gathered from pro-fighters), the rare high-profile exceptions were Nick and Nate Diaz & Sakuraba
(read his first 2 books, I don't think the 3rd one has been translated yet... a guy who smoked a pack a day and got drunk with his friends almost every night isn't very likely to roid, but I could be wrong, I've also heard that he used to roid in his early pro-wrestling years but it was too much of a hassle and didn't bother with it during his pro-fighter years)
I don't remember any other famous guys that several pros told me "yeah I think this guy wasn't using" about
GSP actually came up a couple times, but it was from guys from his entourage, might have been some bias here, might have been some truth...
Do we still get banned if we name fighters that haven't got popped yet but it's painfully obvious that they are roiding?
RF
AresDesideratus
Green Belt
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I don't think steroids will help with injuries. Maybe they would even make fighters more injury prone.
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How was the UFC "cleaner" than PRIDE? Are you "in the know" or just a random fan throwing his opinion out there? (nothing wrong with that, It's just that fighters who competed in both always say that roiding was no different in the UFC than in "Japan", you just had to be more careful with your cycling, but it isn't exactly rocket-science to figure it out...
And cycling, athletics, MLB, recent revelations about Olympic testing...........
This shit happens in every sport apart from darts, all you need for that is pies and beer
Benzodiazepines and beta-blockers in general are actually used in dart competitions, and air pistol, archery and basically any sport that require a steady hand and calm nerves.
Which is why you are better at pool after a couple beers.
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well the time spent doping, avoiding the tests and worrying about getting caught brings its own set of disadvantages. this isn't cycling, mma is far too advanced, PED's won't ever help you 'zig when you shoulda zagged' , the more skilled fighter usually prevails and any loss could've been avoided with improved technique.
i'm mostly playing devils advocate, cus I actually despise doping. but I also view it as proof of mental inadequacy, and would never fear an opponent more if I heard he's doping, if anything my confidence would grow.
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Benzodiazepines and beta-blockers in general are actually used in dart competitions, to steady your hand and calm your nerves.
Which is why you are better at pool after a couple beers.
I've got news for you.... I'm bad at both no matter what :icon_chee
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Ironically enough, PRIDE was the closest thing to "clean" because they didn't pretend to test. Everyone was juiced or aware that everyone else was so there were no unfair advantages. Not that I endorse this because it hurts the fighter's health.
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How was the UFC "cleaner" than PRIDE? Are you "in the know" or just a random fan throwing his opinion out there? (nothing wrong with that, It's just that fighters who competed in both always say that roiding was no different in the UFC than in "Japan", you just had to be more careful with your cycling, but it isn't exactly rocket-science to figure it out...
Benzodiazepines and beta-blockers in general are actually used in dart competitions, and air pistol, archery and basically any sport that require a steady hand and calm nerves.
Which is why you are better at pool after a couple beers.
The key to darts is a good gut, helps with stability.
Gross is one of the best, an MMA O.G. from the PRIDE days. Him giving TJ shit on the old Beatdown shows is what drew me to SRN. Gross is a smart guy, with lots of friends and sources. What is not true about what he has said? PRIDEFC was run by the Yakuza...Zuffa is owned by the Fertita brothers. It is WELL DOCUMENTED that the associates and family of Papa Fertita were notorious Mafia guys. I am not saying that as in conspiracy theory, it is just history. Look at the history of the Fertita family in Galveston, TX...look at where Station Casino first came from. Again, I am not saying anything crazy is going on, just stating a well documented fact. When Papa Fertita got in trouble for money laundering in the 80s, the key witness was offed a few hours after a meeting with Papa Fertita where he said he was going to testify... lots and lots and lots of history about the Fertita family and friends.
Define dirty? Is PRIDEFC dirty because it was a Yakuza front? What are the Yakuza known for? Rape, murder, extortion, drugs, slavery...etc, etc...these guys are bad, in Japan (I lived most of my life in Japan, not in US) most people would agree (incorrectly) that the Mafia in the US was the one that corrupted the Yakuza...it is a bit of an urban myth, I am not saying that is true at all! However, in all the movies and video games, they make the Mafia to be these noble kind of cowboys that lived by a code. Maybe it was like that 100 years ago, but not anymore. The organized crime in the United States has evolved into these rich, elite 1%ers that are above the law...what happened to the Mafia? They got smarter, and they bought lots and lots of casinos, and invested in legitimate stuff. I still think that these are the same guys that pull strings behind the scenes, pay off politicians and cops, get out of legal trouble over and over again because they are rich and powerful...so if a mob family like the Fertitas invest in something legitimate, when do they cease being mobsters, and become businessmen? And are these rich and powerful guys, who pull the strings, expected to be any different behind closed doors? You see rich and powerful guys get away with all kinds of stuff everyday. My question is, does it matter if they are a mafia gangster, or just some rich powerful business person? Do we expect businessmen to be ruthless, or do we expect them to be passive and friendly? Maybe the wishful thinking liberal will say the latter, but real life rewards guys that don't fuck around. So maybe Lorenzo and Frank, and the other one who I forget his name, haven't always been the best people in the world. But that is business. Business is business, and in the MMA world, being hard-nosed and aggressive doesn't make you dirty. However, I think it comes down to the people themselves. Does Lorenzo Fertita think he is better than the average person? Does he respect women? How does he act in private? We will never know, so I don't really see any way that Gross can call these guys dirty. They just play hard, that is the business world.
And so what if the Fertita brothers are made guys, this isn't Hollywood...the organized crime in this country has mostly turned to legitimate business. In the early 20th century, the mob in the United States was bringing in about 100 billion dollars worldwide. Guys like Fertita, Santo Trafficante, Louis Ferrante, and so many more have turned Mafia money into legitimate. It is the smart thing to do. Everywhere you go, you still see stuff that is influenced by the mob. Construction companies, unions, pizza places, bars and restaurants all over. Don't forget they have a big piece of the porn and recording industry.
The way it works is you (Dana White) go to your connected friend (Lorenzo) with a totally legit offer. You and I wouldn't know someone...but Dana did, a connected guy who had a dad and grandfather who made a fortune investing in smart business ventures. I use Dana as an example, but how many guys out there went to the neighborhood boss, and asked for money to start a business. Then they get a little cut back, and if they break their word...they end up getting hurt or killed. It is a system that I am sure is common all over the world, even now. It is not dirty.
I went to college in Syracuse, one of the top party schools in the country. It is funny I had classes with Helwani, and never talked to him once. Anyway, my friend and drug dealer was from Utica, and I went to visit with him. He would sell pounds of weed to these old Italian guys that owned pizza parlors. They were wise guys, but they weren't out being stupid. They had a legit pizza shop, sold some weed on the side, nothing dirty about it. They were good guys, and the neighborhood was clean and safe. So what exactly do you define as dirty, Gross?
For me it would be a journalist with no integrity putting out the results to a show for attention weeks before the end, and then calling them bad guys for banning his ass. Leaking something you were given in good faith, just to boost rating, is classless! Damn the journalists, they are the dirty ones in this country.
Define dirty? Is PRIDEFC dirty because it was a Yakuza front? What are the Yakuza known for? Rape, murder, extortion, drugs, slavery...etc, etc...these guys are bad, in Japan (I lived most of my life in Japan, not in US) most people would agree (incorrectly) that the Mafia in the US was the one that corrupted the Yakuza...it is a bit of an urban myth, I am not saying that is true at all! However, in all the movies and video games, they make the Mafia to be these noble kind of cowboys that lived by a code. Maybe it was like that 100 years ago, but not anymore. The organized crime in the United States has evolved into these rich, elite 1%ers that are above the law...what happened to the Mafia? They got smarter, and they bought lots and lots of casinos, and invested in legitimate stuff. I still think that these are the same guys that pull strings behind the scenes, pay off politicians and cops, get out of legal trouble over and over again because they are rich and powerful...so if a mob family like the Fertitas invest in something legitimate, when do they cease being mobsters, and become businessmen? And are these rich and powerful guys, who pull the strings, expected to be any different behind closed doors? You see rich and powerful guys get away with all kinds of stuff everyday. My question is, does it matter if they are a mafia gangster, or just some rich powerful business person? Do we expect businessmen to be ruthless, or do we expect them to be passive and friendly? Maybe the wishful thinking liberal will say the latter, but real life rewards guys that don't fuck around. So maybe Lorenzo and Frank, and the other one who I forget his name, haven't always been the best people in the world. But that is business. Business is business, and in the MMA world, being hard-nosed and aggressive doesn't make you dirty. However, I think it comes down to the people themselves. Does Lorenzo Fertita think he is better than the average person? Does he respect women? How does he act in private? We will never know, so I don't really see any way that Gross can call these guys dirty. They just play hard, that is the business world.
And so what if the Fertita brothers are made guys, this isn't Hollywood...the organized crime in this country has mostly turned to legitimate business. In the early 20th century, the mob in the United States was bringing in about 100 billion dollars worldwide. Guys like Fertita, Santo Trafficante, Louis Ferrante, and so many more have turned Mafia money into legitimate. It is the smart thing to do. Everywhere you go, you still see stuff that is influenced by the mob. Construction companies, unions, pizza places, bars and restaurants all over. Don't forget they have a big piece of the porn and recording industry.
The way it works is you (Dana White) go to your connected friend (Lorenzo) with a totally legit offer. You and I wouldn't know someone...but Dana did, a connected guy who had a dad and grandfather who made a fortune investing in smart business ventures. I use Dana as an example, but how many guys out there went to the neighborhood boss, and asked for money to start a business. Then they get a little cut back, and if they break their word...they end up getting hurt or killed. It is a system that I am sure is common all over the world, even now. It is not dirty.
I went to college in Syracuse, one of the top party schools in the country. It is funny I had classes with Helwani, and never talked to him once. Anyway, my friend and drug dealer was from Utica, and I went to visit with him. He would sell pounds of weed to these old Italian guys that owned pizza parlors. They were wise guys, but they weren't out being stupid. They had a legit pizza shop, sold some weed on the side, nothing dirty about it. They were good guys, and the neighborhood was clean and safe. So what exactly do you define as dirty, Gross?
For me it would be a journalist with no integrity putting out the results to a show for attention weeks before the end, and then calling them bad guys for banning his ass. Leaking something you were given in good faith, just to boost rating, is classless! Damn the journalists, they are the dirty ones in this country.
Are you a moron ? no it doesn't. And why you even care, an adult man cant make his own fucking decisions about their own health lol.
They could use legal gear, administered by doctors not some mexi cartel made shit sold and injected by the same guy peddling coke and meth.
It actually helped their health, hgh helps with concussion issues. Other shit is just medicine made to heal people. No shit it heals injuries fast durrr something fighters suffer a ton of in their careers.
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Thank you for giving me motivation to train.
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cool story josh
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Josh Gross made a new sherdog account, wow.
Anyways, old fans will remember the main reason Josh got all salty was because he thought it would be cool to spoil TUF 4 and let everyone know who the finalists were while the shows was still airing. It was a big deal when he did it.
Dana and the UFC rightfully got pissed and banned him for life from covering their events in person. Kinda hard to be a legit MMA reporter when the UFC bans you. Gross has been salty since
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If the athletes are not taking PEDs it means the sport is not competitive.
If you have a way of telling someone is roiding without blood tests and the like, you should sell it to the IOC and various sporting bodies, because until know they've been forced to use expensive testing because no visual system works. Tens of millions are spent every year on doping tests, not to mention the inconveniences all around. They'd happily pay you millions for any visual testing system.
The problem with all current visual systems, painfully obvious or not, is that they sound great in locker room, bar room, and forum conversations, but give both false positives and false negatives in the real world. Which is why they're not used by testing bodies. Sure would be nice if someone could replace them with a visual test that actually does what it claims.
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Did Gross really do that?
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