Jones vs Stipe for the Interim HW title

Jones would beat this shot, old version of Stipe. Father time is unforgiving.
 
GOATtalks said:
Ngannou also dominated wrestling exchanges with Stipe in their rematch. His wrestling is improving exponentially. He’s also way bigger than and stronger than Jones. Also Jones doesn’t shoot for singles or double legs. He likes to takedown his opponents from clinch. Gane is excellent in the clinch, bigger than Jones and moves much better than Jones. He only clinched with Ngannou to avoid his power, he doesn’t have to do that against Jones. He could easily avoid clinching and pick him apart from the distance
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this jones never goes for double leg, also when was the last time he used his wrestling? guy will run out of gas if he tries to wrestle carrying extra weight fighting a much bigger boned man than him. Ngannou is not walt harris or ben rothwell two fat guys, he is an athlete with lot of core strenght
 
BrockLesnarsTurtleBack said:
Miocic has an actually well-rounded and skilled MMA game. Granted, he is old and well past his prime, but he actually has the toughness and skill to take on Jones.

Gane has zero ground game and zero wrestling. He's getting GNP'd or submitted to death.

Ngannou has one punch and nothing else. Jones will very easily pick his archaic standup apart and win a decision. And Ngannou isn't stealing a decision from Jones with wrestling lol.
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Gane has zero ground game and wrestling? Lol. He has 2 submissions wins and actually took down Francis with a single leg when Stipe failed to do so.

Gane could only survive the stand up against Ngannou because of his footwork and his perfect defence. Jones is stationary and relies on his chin a lot. Ngannou would KO him in the first
 
GOATtalks said:
Gane has zero ground game and wrestling? Lol. He has 2 submissions wins and actually took down Francis with a single leg when Stipe failed to do so.

Gane could only survive the stand up against Ngannou because of his footwork and his perfect defence. Jones is stationary and relies on his chin a lot. Ngannou would KO him in the first
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Gane has faced purely strikers coming up. He never faced a half-decent wrestler and now this flaw in his game was brutally exposed.
You just don't want to admit that these guys weren't what they were hyped up to be, so you invent a narrative about Ciryll Gane having elite grappling, just that Ngannou suddenly developed into the best HW wrestler of all time because he stuffed one poorly set up takedown attempt by Stipe.

Jon would do against Ngannou exactly what he did against Rampage. A faster (with better wrestling) version of Ngannou never tagged him clean.
 
BrockLesnarsTurtleBack said:
Gane has faced purely strikers coming up. He never faced a half-decent wrestler and now this flaw in his game was brutally exposed.
You just don't want to admit that these guys weren't what they were hyped up to be, so you invent a narrative about Ciryll Gane having elite grappling, just that Ngannou suddenly developed into the best HW wrestler of all time because he stuffed one poorly set up takedown attempt by Stipe.

Jon would do against Ngannou exactly what he did against Rampage. A faster (with better wrestling) version of Ngannou never tagged him clean.
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Ngannou’s wrestling has come a long way and he’s actually very good at it. What makes it even more dangerous is his ridiculous strength that goes with it. Jones takes people down from the clinch. I don’t see him overpowering Ngannou in the clinch.

Rampage had a 11 inch reach disadvantage against Jones. Jones relied heavily on his long arms for defence, by just posting and sliding back. It didn’t work well against opponents with similar height/reach like Gus or Reyes. If he would do the same against Ngannou he would get KO’ed for sure
 
GOATtalks said:
Ngannou’s wrestling has come a long way and he’s actually very good at it. What makes it even more dangerous is his ridiculous strength that goes with it. Jones takes people down from the clinch. I don’t see him overpowering Ngannou in the clinch.

Rampage had a 11 inch reach disadvantage against Jones. Jones relied heavily on his long arms for defence, by just posting and sliding back. It didn’t work well against opponents with similar height/reach like Gus or Reyes. If he would do the same against Ngannou he would get KO’ed for sure
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Jon doesn't have to take down Ngannou to beat him, although I suspect he would in the later rounds.

You must've missed the clinic Jon put on Gustafsson in their second fight.
 
BrockLesnarsTurtleBack said:
As Sonnen said, Miocic is the only threat in the HW division for Jon. The Ngannou-Gane destroyed any delusions that either of those men would be the one to beat Jon.
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39 year old stipe with 2 KO losses in his last 4 and a year on the shelf coming off a loss vs Jones with 2 years on the shelf, and 75 championship rounds of wear and tear, fighting in a new weight class. There are more unknowns than knowns in that mess of a fight, but it's still hard to pick Stipe.
 
BFoe said:
Jones if it were to happen. Personally I don’t think Jones fights this year. But the Ngannou-Gane fight was a real eye opener for me. Previously, I thought Ngannou would handle current Jones but I don’t think that now. The last version of Jones we saw beats the last version of Stipe we saw I think, and also beats Ngannou and Gane. What version of Jones really shows up remains to be seen.
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The last version of Jones we saw? Oh yeah, super impressive.
<WhatIsThis>
 
I just want to watch a round of ngannou leg kicking Jon.
 
GOATtalks said:
Stipe and Jones are both free and ready to go. Both would only fight if a title is on the line.
Who do you see getting his hand raised?
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I think the fight is a good one, I'd like to see it for the interim belt due to Ngannou's likely year+ layoff. However, these two guys are probably very very far from "ready to go". They are free, but they will both drive hard bargain and are not the type to be in any rush to take any fight.
 
BrockLesnarsTurtleBack said:
Jon doesn't have to take down Ngannou to beat him, although I suspect he would in the later rounds.

You must've missed the clinic Jon put on Gustafsson in their second fight.
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Jones gets slept on the feet, it’s obvious for anyone who knows what they’re looking at
 
I like the idea as I'm a fan of Interim titles since it means more $$ for everyone involved.

That said, Stipe does probably "deserve" the trilogy fight before he gets too old.
The JBJ fight would also be a huge fight.
There seems no need to ruin either potential fight.

Frankly, If Francis KOs his next opponent (assuming that he just wants to fight in the UFC, and bails on boxing,) then giving him the opportunity to avenge his loss to Derrick Lewis might sell if people watch their separate highlights and not the original fight... that'd be a big risk on the part of the UFC, though.
 
BFoe said:
Jones if it were to happen. Personally I don’t think Jones fights this year. But the Ngannou-Gane fight was a real eye opener for me. Previously, I thought Ngannou would handle current Jones but I don’t think that now. The last version of Jones we saw beats the last version of Stipe we saw I think, and also beats Ngannou and Gane. What version of Jones really shows up remains to be seen.
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Gane couldn't be any more different than Jones. Not sure how anything favors Jones. He doesn't have his footwork or movement to avoid the big shots. Most of Jones defense is framing and using his reach, which is non existent against Ngannou
 
GOATtalks said:
Lol, you’re obviously a troll and a hater. There couldn’t be 2 more different fighters than Lewis and Jones, it’s irrelevant how Ngannou fought Lewis when comparing him to Jones
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His slow and sloppy punches with no set ups aren't going to work against Jones. They just aren't. Jon isn't going to rush him like a retard or over commit and the only thing that Francis has left after that is the Rozenstruik rush.
 
GOATtalks said:
So Dominick Reyes fight convinced you Jones beats Stipe, Ngannou and Gane? Wow! We must’ve been watching different fights then
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You and I frequently watch “different” fights. ;)
But no, I don’t just watch one thing to come to a conclusion. We’ve got each fighter’s most recent fights to look at, plus things we’ve learned about them throughout their career, and we try and make our best guess. Im not “convinced” of anything. Im making a prediction. Obv how Jones will look is a huge unknown. If he is totally shot or just doesn’t fight well at that weight class, then yeah he’s fucked.
So for Stipe, I’m really looking at those 3 Cormier fights and last Ngannou fight. For Ngannou and Gane, I’d look at their last few—although since the fight the other night went all 5 rounds and was not just a striking affair (like Gane’s fights with Rozenstruik and Volkov) it really gave us a window into Gane’s grappling game. Same for Ngannou, as we don’t see him go 5 rounds often. For Jones, I’m looking at the Santos and Reyes fights mainly.
—It’s totally possible for Frank to KO Jones, we know that. And we know, as @surgeyou1 pointed out, Jones does worse against guys with similar reach. But Jones has never been rocked in his whole career. Meanwhile we’ve seen Stipe avoid the bomb for 5 rounds with movement and wrestling, and Gane avoided it for 5 rounds with movement and distance management—all things that Jones is historically excellent at. So I will say it’s more likely to me that Jones avoids the bomb and outpoints him.
—Gane doesn’t have the KO power to threaten Jones like Frank does. On the feet it might be fairly even, but Jones should have wrestling and grappling to lean on that Gane simply can’t deal with. Gane couldn’t handle Francis’s wrestling, he won’t handle Jones’ if Jones can still wrestle at a good level (which is questionable). I think Jones decisions Gane, but I don’t think a late sub for Jones is out of the question either if Jones is still sharp. Gane is just too inexperienced on the ground.
—I favored Stipe in his prime to win this fight, but I do not have much faith in where Stipe is at right now. He does not seem very explosive or strong, and is just so hittable it seems like. In some ways this fight is harder to predict imo than Gane or Ngannou. We saw huge holes in their games the other night, whereas prime Stipe was more well-rounded. I just am not sure where he’s at these days. Tough fight to pick.
surgeyou1 said:
Gane couldn't be any more different than Jones. Not sure how anything favors Jones. He doesn't have his footwork or movement to avoid the big shots. Most of Jones defense is framing and using his reach, which is non existent against Ngannou
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See above. I hear you on the reach, but I disagree with your opinion that Jones doesn’t have the movement to avoid the big shots, he’s avoided everyone’s big shots his whole career. He really just needs to do it for the first couple rounds. We’ve seen it done more that once already by other fighters.
 
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