Jones needs to end the heavyweight division and call Aspinall into the ring if he wins....

[joy2day]

The weird fantasies are the worst part about Jones fanboys.

lol exactly. Throwing the belt at Tom's feet and riding away into the sunset as the champ forever? That is a bizarre caricature that is literally out of a fantasy.

 

[Only Here for Attachments]

No, the HW champion is the guy who fights the best possible opponent. Aspinall is trying to do that. He would fight Ngannou if he could. He's trying his best to fight Jones.

Jones is not a serious heavyweight contender, and he knows it. Aspinall would hand him his own ass.

Okay, but that has nothing to do with the term "paper champ." At least what it originally meant. Words used to mean something, you know...

 

[Ares Black]

Okay, but that has nothing to do with the term "paper champ." At least what it originally meant. Words used to mean something, you know...

If a fighter ever retires with the belt or leaves the organization, then every fighter after them is technically a paper champ, by your logic.

At some point, the championship needs to be legitimized, which is precisely what Aspinall is trying to do, and what Jones is desperately trying to avoid.

 

[Only Here for Attachments]

There really is no exact definition of a paper champion as it really comes down to circumstances. I believe that if a fighter wins a title by not beating the actual champion, cause they leave, vacate or retire, they have a little more work to do before I can see them as the definitive champion. They are the champion technically, but it's still got the "paper" feel.

To me, a fighter needs to defend the belt and then I see them as a legit champ. So if Jon beats Stipe tonight, I will see them him as the definitive champion. And if Tom beats him then there really is no debate.

Right, like how DC was a paper LHW champ because he only got the belt when Jon was indisposed. People are trying to argue some weird, vague, feelings-based definition that seems more like justification of one's one point of view rather than a descriptive term related to a combat sports idiom.

 

[Ares Black]

To me, a fighter needs to defend the belt and then I see them as a legit champ. So if Jon beats Stipe tonight, I will see them him as the definitive champion.

No. Stipe has no business being the challenger, so the result is not definitive IMO.

Even if he wins decisively tonight he is not the undisputed champion.

 

[Only Here for Attachments]

If a fighter ever retires with the belt or leaves the organization, then every fighter after them is technically a paper champ, by your logic.

And many others here, don't forget. Franci$ is still the real UFC HW champ despite not being under contract, in the minds of several posters.

I think, once again, we are dealing with co-opted boxing terminology that doesn't exactly work in the MMA context. "Paper champion" in boxing, where it originated from, means literally what I described. It's not supposed to mean "This fighter hurts my feelings, so I invalidate him to feel better!"

 

[Ares Black]

And many others here, don't forget. Franci$ is still the real UFC HW champ despite not being under contract, in the minds of several posters.

Those posters are dumb. There is currently no real UFC HW champ.

I think, once again, we are dealing with co-opted boxing terminology that doesn't exactly work in the MMA context. "Paper champion" in boxing, where it originated from, means literally what I described.

I am aware of what paper champion describes

 

[Only Here for Attachments]

I am aware of what paper champion describes

And yet you use it in a different way

 

[Mohawk Banditó]

Only to throw the belt at his feet, and walk off into the sunset. Then whoever holds the belt in future, will always be a paper champion.

"Heres your worthless belt and payhetic excuse cor a heavyweight division... have fun"

Paper champ throws the belt and calls the guy actually defending his belt the paper champ? Genius move, my guy

 

[Ares Black]

And yet you use it in a different way

No, I really don't. I am saying that Tom Aspinall would not be a paper champ if Jones retired, because he wouldn't be.

I think maybe it's you who is fuzzy on what a paper champion is.

 

[Mohawk Banditó]

And so will Tom if Jon retires

They both didn't beat the champ, so both are paper.

However, it's generally accepted by everyone who watches any combat sports (please join them) that paper champs can be upgraded by defending against top contenders, which Tom does and Jon doesn't

 

[Only Here for Attachments]

(please join them)

Watching GIFs of finishes is a perfectly valid way to enjoy combat sports, excuse you.

 

[JKS]

No. Stipe has no business being the challenger, so the result is not definitive IMO.

Even if he wins decisively tonight he is not the undisputed champion.

I think it's a tricky situation here because because we have a vacated belt that was won and not yet defended, and you have a interim champion. So either way you don't have a undisputed champion until Stipe/Jon fight Tom. But the legit champ is a different part of this equation.

Stipe, I see him as a legit challenger. The only criticism you can make is he's been inactive. But this man has been in 8 straight HW title fights and been at the top for years while active. He is the UFC HW goat so I certainly see him as having business fighting for the title. Not as much as Tom right now, but he's a legit challenger.

 

[Ares Black]

They both didn't beat the champ, so both are paper.

However, it's generally accepted by everyone who watches any combat sports (please join them) that paper champs can be upgraded by defending against top contenders, which Tom does and Jon doesn't

If Ngannou is no longer willing to defend his belt then I don't necessarily consider any future champion automatically a paper champ.

There may be an asterisk in the record books, but if the last champion is retired or inactive there is very little someone can do about it.

The true HW champion in the UFC is the person who is willing to fight any challenger.

To me, the best definition of a paper champion is simply someone who holds a belt but is not the best fighter in their division.

If a fighter wins a vacant belt they could be considered a paper champion, but as soon as they fight the #1 contender their belt is legitimized. Jones is not doing that.

 

[Ares Black]

I think it's a tricky situation here because because we have a vacated belt that was won and not yet defended, and you have a interim champion. So either way you don't have a undisputed champion until Stipe/Jon fight Tom. But the legit champ is a different part of this equation.

Stipe, I see him as a legit challenger. The only criticism you can make is he's been inactive.

He is also coming off a brutal KO loss

But this man has been in 8 straight HW title fights and been at the top for years while active. He is the UFC HW goat so I certainly see him as having business fighting for the title. Not as much as Tom right now, but he's a legit challenger.

I disagree. He is a retired fighter who has been lured out of retirement for a paycheck.

 

[GluttonforPunishment]

Lol at you idiots still thinking this man will do what people want. Just fucking dumb

 

[Only Here for Attachments]

To me, the best definition of a paper champion is simply someone who holds a belt but is not the best fighter in their division.

Wait, you just told me you weren't using some weird, idiosyncratic definition! Yet you are.

 

[Khaosan]

Tom has as many title defences as Jon has fights in the division lmao.

 

[Mohawk Banditó]

Watching GIFs of finishes is a perfectly valid way to enjoy combat sports, excuse you.

Kaz has ruined MMA fandom

 

[Only Here for Attachments]

Kaz has ruined MMA fandom

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