Jones, GSP, Usman and Adesanya always had reach advantage in their entire careers

[Tweak896]

I mean the thing with reach is you're usually the lanky guy easy to take down so you have to really work on TDD/wrestling, which all the champs did. Then they also had to be very good at using their reach. Usually the fighters with the long reach that never became elite is because they didn't focus on those 2 aspects of their game.

 

[Poirierfan]

Nate Diaz's 76' reach humbled his 74' reach.

I meant featherweight

 

[LikeItIs]

Of course reach is an advantage IF you know how to use it effectively.

 

[DagOban**]

Reach helps.

But reach doesn't make champions.

 

[Maripucci]

No way say it isn't so...

A reach advantage in a sport that evolves striking?

Cleary that wouldn't be an advantage

 

[Mark McMichael]

No it's not simplistic.

Studies and analysis have been done as to what variable impacts the most and reach is near the top and significantly more than height or other factors.

Eg:
https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/3/...-distribution-of-win-across-reach-differences

That's not the official study I saw prior but... you get the point and the data is correleated elsewhere.

I'm in data analysis. It's my job. I analyse data every day and manipulate it for results, I've been studying variables for many years and achieve consistent outcomes (thus proving I understand them to a degree higher than randomness) regularly. Of course there's a billion variables in anything and any 1 variable by itself is not definitive. So yeah, reach by itself isn't going to be useful if other skills don't come into it...

But it's more significant than height and many other factors by a pretty large margin.

Of course there's going to still be champions and winners without reach advantage. Becuase it's a variable. It isn't saying anyone with a longer reach will automatically win. It's saying the variable is so strong, that percentage wise... it's one of the biggest factors, when you look at the percentage of fights won vs. reach.

Why then was this once considered the ideal body for MMA and any fighting that was not restricted by rules?

Why did they think that guys with lanky long bodies would just get grappled and submitted and their chicken legs snapped by a hard kick?

How did Semmy lose this fight?

But someone like Jon Jones would win it?

There is this constant need to suggest in MMA that reach is like magic and some unfair advantage despite the FACT that far more champs in MMA had average reach.

Reach is only an advantage after you have an elite game in the other areas of MMA and thus you then can use reach to out strike your opponents who typically have poor striking to begin with.

Think of any MMA striker, reach advantage or not who could stuff the td's of the grapplers and then force them to strike where they were weakest. Reach or no reach (BJ Penn) they could light up their poor striking opponents.

So what is the real difference then, if not reach? Why could BJ Penn light them up standing?

Because he was more skilled in MORE AREAS of mma and could fight standing up where many of them could not.

Jon Jones being more SKILLED would win where Semmy would not. Despite them both enjoying the magic of reach.

 

[kflo]

opponents should have been allowed to use these.

 

[daniel san]

Many mediocre fighters have had a great reach advantage but failed to use it, everyone is aware of that so there is no point in mentioning Struve (who is tied with Jones in longest reach).

I think all these dominant champs are tremendous fighters and part of it being their reach. All of them know how to use it, and MMA fighters aren’t as great as boxers in closing the distance. Take away the reach and they would all still be great fighters, but perhaps not as dominant.

 

[GordonMMARamsey]

Ban reach advantages.

 

[djacobox372]

Jones has the most freakish reach I've seen in combat sports.

 

[thebesteva21]

Having a reach “advantage” is an advantage? Gtfo

 

[TR1]

All of them have a "certain" other advantage too, methinks.

 

[Paynebringer]

It's only an advantage if you know how to use it...

 

[Mark McMichael]

Reach for a fighter that uses it well is probably the 3rd best asset possible behind a good gas tank and youth. For a fighter that doesn't know how to use it, it makes no discernable difference.

Most tall, lanky guys are pretty mediocre and have serious issues grappling.

If height and reach trumped everything, then guys like Will Chope, Dan Hornbuckle and James Vick would've been GOATs in their divisions.

Correct.

Those who paint reach as some unfair magical advantage that requires no skill are just Jon jones haters generally.

And I hate Jon Jones but can see that as nonsense.

The lanky 'reach' fighter has historically been considered at a disadvantage in MMA. Shorter stockier more powerful limbs were seen as more powerful and harder to get a submission on. Long chicken legs or arms were just going to be snapped or the fighter bullied by a grappler.

It was only once fighters with 'reach' could counter the skills and advantages of the more powerful, shorter limbs with and grappling with immense skill of their own, then and only then, that reach gains advantage.

Just as any fighter who has good striking generally, even without reach (BJ Penn prime) could take advantage of the mostly grappling heavy and poor striking generally in MMA only if they also had the immense skill to counters the grappling.

Jones was not a dominant champ because of 'reach'. His immense skill allows him to dominate using all his abilities including his reach.

 

[icemun]

Prime Fedor beats all.

Couldn't beat a 40 year old MW but beats, GOATS....

 

[icemun]

Yeah and reach is basically thee most important factor (other than of course an absurd weight difference, but... that's the point of weight-classes obviously) in advantages. Reach is not regulated....

McGregor realised this, that's why he did so well at FW. His reach at FW was absurd.

Jones and Usman probably know this too. The most sociopathic fighters seem to, because.... they just analyze how to manipulate things at a higher level to exploit. All are sociopaths and all are fighting well below (well, Conor did initially @ FW) their natural weight-classes - it's not about weight - but REACH.

You need to look up the definition of sociopath before just typing random words

 

[UFCIsNOTRigged]

Jones has the most freakish reach I've seen in combat sports.

Sergei Pavlovich is an inch shorter than Jon and has the same reach.

Kevin Lee and Dalcha Lungiambula have an identical ape index (+8.0).

Jons reach is not nearly as significant as many Sherdoggers seem to believe it is.

 

[Mark McMichael]

Having a reach “advantage” is an advantage? Gtfo

So is having good striking in MMA when so many don't.

The reason BJ Penn, in his prime run could utilize his very good striking and punish guys with poor striking, was because the rest of his game was well rounded enough to force them to fight him standing. Something Houston Alexander could not do despite having solid striking but lack of skill in the other areas. This his weakness and why he would get dominated by top guys.


Same goes for guys with reach. They get dominates by stocky grappler types no matter the reach. Reach is not magic. But they win, if like prime BJ Penn, they have the immense skill to counter the immensely skilled grappler. That immense skill for guys like Jones and Izzy is just that, SKILL.

They are not winning because of magic reach. They can use their reach (like BJ used his boxing) because of that other immense skill they developed.

 

[ElLunico]

Skills pays the bills. There are tons of guys in their respective weight classes with equal or greater reach.

 

[HHJ]

In a sport where you can take someone down,no one should be bitching about this.