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And Reyes did exactly that sir.
Very nice breakdown. Honestly, as pointed above, watching it yet again, round 2 and 3 were somewhat tough. I had watched it a couple weeks ago and already had the impression that round 2 was way closer than I had imagined. But seeing it again, I honestly see it as closer still, and round 3, viewing again, had Reyes doing better than he did in round 2 imo, although signs of fatigue were already more visible. Hmmm... I think Reyes won the 3rd one looking closely again imo. I thought it was even, but still, Jones seemed hesitant sometimes and didn't land that much. It seems he was controlling a little where to have the fight, but seemed awfully hesitant in trying combos and attacking. The 2nd round seemed more like a toss a coin imo. Gonna rewatch in slow motion lolAs we agreed upon prior, Reyes 1, & jones 4&5 are not disputable. The question is R2 & 3, & I spent way more time watching 2 than I intended to spend today.. lol... but here'z what I found.
Remember Texas had a high value in their judging for aggression. which holding the center of the octagon was valued highly & needs to be counted. you countered that Reyes did enough aggressive striking from the outside to make up for him giving up the center... but upon review, I disagree.
I ended up watching R2 a few times, so here's my notes -
- R2 & R3 was close enough that it's not a robbery either way. Under Texas rools, I give both rounds to Jones. (the 2nd being the closer of the 2) but I'd give both to Reyes under the Unified rools.
Reyes clearly won teh first minute even under Texas rools for that super aggressive "attempt" at the end of teh 1st minute. That flurry where he was chasing jon, looked more impressive than it had actual "strikes landed", (not sure he landed any of them) but he does get a lot of credit in Texas for the aggression. However, he was on his heals most of that first minute & only did that in about 15 seconds, & then took a step off of that gas after the first minute & spent a lot of time dancing around the outside (recovering) which negated that aggressive advantage & I being generous to Reyes for that one 15 second burst... I had "aggression" scored about even by mid round despite that extreme display. (note: I don't like the texas aggression scoring & it's so subjective, but I can see how that could be the case.)
There-after, they both got solid strikes & maybe Reyes was slightly ahead on that front, but Jon was pulling ahead by holding the center. An argument could be made that Reyes stole that round at the very end with a couple of nice strikes. They weren't earth shattering, but they were pretty solid... and maybe that could be said to negate his dancing on the outside. I'd say that it was close enough that there was no robbery either way.
This is one of those rounds that would be best to review with slow motion & rewind, so to try & see exactly what landed & what didn't. So much happened that was hard to tell. In addition to little stuff, we do know Reyes landed 2 hard leg kicks & a good hook to the mellon in the last minute while Jones landed a good body kick and maybe a melon shot, but it's hard to say.
It was close, but this thing about how Texas weighs "owning the center" was very clearly won by Jones, & Reyes didn't have enough aggression throughout the round nor heavy strikes in order to negate that. (imo) It was close though, even under Texas rools.
Under Unified rools though, I'd give that round to Reyes. Under Texas roolz, I give it Jones.
Such fun sorting through this!
R3 - was more of the same as 2, except that Reyes didn't have a major meaningful burst of aggression in the 3rd like he did in the 2nd. Meanwhile, in addition to holding the center... jones had the stronger rallies for aggression with his TD attempts which put Reyes on full defense... which is a big no no in Texas. "no can defense."
Again, I'd give the nod to Reyes for the stronger strikes under the unified rools where jon's TD attempts & holding the center would count for 0... but in Texas, aggression meanz a lot & Reyes didn't outstrike Jon by enough of a margin for this to be considered a robbery.
Teh 3rd was much clearer regarding aggression for Jon than the 2nd imo. Both rounds were close enough in Texas that there was no robberry. I agree it's a dated rool-set, but it is the roolset they fought under.
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As ridiculous as this seems, we actually see this same dynamic happening with judges under the Unified Rools. WAY TOO OFTEN... we see wrestlers holding someone down without doing a fooking thing with it, & they end up winning a round that they were clearly out struck in.
This is no more of a robbery than those countless examples... except that these other modern day examples were supposed to be judged under a rool-set that doesn't count "aggression." it's been an endless source of stress for me watching this happen, so now that we're discussing an event that actually is commissioned to score "aggressiveness..." it shouldn't be that big of a surprise.
Just imagine all that time where reyes was on the outside moving, as if he was laying on his back. For sure a guy can outstrike the other off his back... but somehow most judges will still give the nod to the asshole laying on top not doing jack shit. This is the same conversation, except that jones actually was returning fire. It was close... for sure, but it wasn't so close that the "aggression" was negated.
Fook me, I spent way more time on this than I intended, but there it is.
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Meh, it was a pretty close fight, I would’ve probably gave the decision to Reyes had it been a regular fight. But for the belt against unbeaten Jones, I don’t feel he did enough..And Reyes did exactly that sir.
If I was the only one to think Reyes won the first 3 rounds then I would be more inclined to agree to be honest.Meh, it was a pretty close fight, I would’ve probably gave the decision to Reyes had it been a regular fight. But for the belt against unbeaten Jones, I don’t feel he did enough..
Just my opinion, respectfully as always sir!
Jones won the fight. Reyes is a dumbass that took off the 5th round for some reason
The issue is that none of the judges gave Reyes all the first 3 rounds. He took off the 5th in a close fightJon lost the first 3 rounds...how does him winning the last 2 rounds negate that without two 10-8 rounds?
Jon lost the first 3 rounds...how does him winning the last 2 rounds negate that without two 10-8 rounds?
Reyes 1,2,3. And quite a small guy Reyes. Imagine what Poatan does to JJ.
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Yes, we're aware that the judging was the problem hereThe issue is that none of the judges gave Reyes all the first 3 rounds.
Reyes taking the 5th round off didn’t help his cause.Yes, we're aware that the judging was the problem here
It shouldn't have mattered with judges who halfway knew what they were doingReyes taking the 5th round off didn’t help his cause.
Defense is also included in the scoring of Texas. And it’s not aggression, it’s effective aggression. If jones didn’t achieve anything with his takedown attempts, then they don’t get scored. Reyes defending the takedowns would be scored. And keeping the fight on the feet would be a part of fighting area control, he is determining where the fight takes placeAs we agreed upon prior, Reyes 1, & jones 4&5 are not disputable. The question is R2 & 3, & I spent way more time watching 2 than I intended to spend today.. lol... but here'z what I found.
Remember Texas had a high value in their judging for aggression. which holding the center of the octagon was valued highly & needs to be counted. you countered that Reyes did enough aggressive striking from the outside to make up for him giving up the center... but upon review, I disagree.
I ended up watching R2 a few times, so here's my notes -
- R2 & R3 was close enough that it's not a robbery either way. Under Texas rools, I give both rounds to Jones. (the 2nd being the closer of the 2) but I'd give both to Reyes under the Unified rools.
Reyes clearly won teh first minute even under Texas rools for that super aggressive "attempt" at the end of teh 1st minute. That flurry where he was chasing jon, looked more impressive than it had actual "strikes landed", (not sure he landed any of them) but he does get a lot of credit in Texas for the aggression. However, he was on his heals most of that first minute & only did that in about 15 seconds, & then took a step off of that gas after the first minute & spent a lot of time dancing around the outside (recovering) which negated that aggressive advantage & I being generous to Reyes for that one 15 second burst... I had "aggression" scored about even by mid round despite that extreme display. (note: I don't like the texas aggression scoring & it's so subjective, but I can see how that could be the case.)
There-after, they both got solid strikes & maybe Reyes was slightly ahead on that front, but Jon was pulling ahead by holding the center. An argument could be made that Reyes stole that round at the very end with a couple of nice strikes. They weren't earth shattering, but they were pretty solid... and maybe that could be said to negate his dancing on the outside. I'd say that it was close enough that there was no robbery either way.
This is one of those rounds that would be best to review with slow motion & rewind, so to try & see exactly what landed & what didn't. So much happened that was hard to tell. In addition to little stuff, we do know Reyes landed 2 hard leg kicks & a good hook to the mellon in the last minute while Jones landed a good body kick and maybe a melon shot, but it's hard to say.
It was close, but this thing about how Texas weighs "owning the center" was very clearly won by Jones, & Reyes didn't have enough aggression throughout the round nor heavy strikes in order to negate that. (imo) It was close though, even under Texas rools.
Under Unified rools though, I'd give that round to Reyes. Under Texas roolz, I give it Jones.
Such fun sorting through this!
R3 - was more of the same as 2, except that Reyes didn't have a major meaningful burst of aggression in the 3rd like he did in the 2nd. Meanwhile, in addition to holding the center... jones had the stronger rallies for aggression with his TD attempts which put Reyes on full defense... which is a big no no in Texas. "no can defense."
Again, I'd give the nod to Reyes for the stronger strikes under the unified rools where jon's TD attempts & holding the center would count for 0... but in Texas, aggression meanz a lot & Reyes didn't outstrike Jon by enough of a margin for this to be considered a robbery.
Teh 3rd was much clearer regarding aggression for Jon than the 2nd imo. Both rounds were close enough in Texas that there was no robberry. I agree it's a dated rool-set, but it is the roolset they fought under.
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As ridiculous as this seems, we actually see this same dynamic happening with judges under the Unified Rools. WAY TOO OFTEN... we see wrestlers holding someone down without doing a fooking thing with it, & they end up winning a round that they were clearly out struck in.
This is no more of a robbery than those countless examples... except that these other modern day examples were supposed to be judged under a rool-set that doesn't count "aggression." it's been an endless source of stress for me watching this happen, so now that we're discussing an event that actually is commissioned to score "aggressiveness..." it shouldn't be that big of a surprise.
Just imagine all that time where reyes was on the outside moving, as if he was laying on his back. For sure a guy can outstrike the other off his back... but somehow most judges will still give the nod to the asshole laying on top not doing jack shit. This is the same conversation, except that jones actually was returning fire. It was close... for sure, but it wasn't so close that the "aggression" was negated.
Fook me, I spent way more time on this than I intended, but there it is.
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Jones' defense in the first two rounds was phenomenal, even if he was off to a slow start on offense. Reyes whiffed a fair majority of the time and the shots that "landed" were 95% grazing shots that did no damage.Not gonna echo what many have said already. Fight comes down to how you score that 3rd round. Results are what they are but I think the fight was a lot closer than either side would care to admit. Belt could have easily changed hands that nights
I disagree with most being grazing shot and no damage being done. That is a wild exaggeration. Jon defended very well especially with how insanely aggressive Reyes was. However, Reyes still convincingly won those rounds, landed some impressive shots, and controlled the pace convincingly. It was not the beatdown some try to claim but Reyes had good success and won those rounds.Jones' defense in the first two rounds was phenomenal, even if he was off to a slow start on offense. Reyes whiffed a fair majority of the time and the shots that "landed" were 95% grazing shots that did no damage.
Being able to redirect a shot just enough rather than pushing it all the way over is an incredibly useful striking defense that gives you the most options for a follow-up action. A grazing shot mostly means that the striker ended up out of position while the defender maybe didn't. When 40% of your strikes are near misses or grazes with barely any solid shots landing, you're generally losing unless that solid shot or two was a KO.
The issue is that none of the judges gave Reyes all the first 3 rounds. He took off the 5th in a close fight