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Jon Jones Potential PED Maskers (.19/1 T/E) Discussion Thread (MERGED)

Discussion in 'UFC Discussion' started by Jin Akutsu, Jan 7, 2015.

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Jin Akutsu Gengar Belt Platinum Member
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EDIT as of 7/18/16:

Jon Jones was confirmed to have tested positive for two estrogen blockers, which are considered banned substances under USADA testing.

http://mmajunkie.com/2016/07/nsac-u...trogen-blockers-receives-temporary-suspension

Jones came back positive for hydroxy-clomiphene, “an anti-estrogenic agent” and “letrozole metabolite,” an “aromatase inhibitor,” NSAC attorney Caroline Bateman said today during a hearing in Las Vegas. The substances, which are both banned year-round by the World Anti-Doping Agency, are consistent with the type named by Jones’ ex-training partner and opponent, Rashad Evans, who first claimed the interim champ tested positive for estrogen blockers.

Estrogen blockers can potentially act in tandem with performance-enhancers by helping to mitigate their side effects, and are also thought to restart natural testosterone production.
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Jones got caught with 2 banned substances.

Jon Jones fails out of competition USADA test, pulled from UFC 200.

http://www.ufc.com/news/ufc-statement-on-jon-jones-july-6-2016

The UFC organization was notified tonight that the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency (USADA) has informed Jon Jones of a potential Anti-Doping Policy violation stemming from an out-of-competition sample collection on June 16, 2016.

USADA, the independent administrator of the UFC Anti-Doping Policy, will handle the results management and appropriate adjudication of this case. It is important to note that, under the UFC Anti-Doping Policy, there is a full fair legal review process that is afforded to all athletes before any sanctions are imposed.

However, because Jones was scheduled to compete against Daniel Cormier this coming Saturday, July 9 in Las Vegas, there is insufficient time for a full review before the scheduled bout and therefore the fight has been removed from the fight card. As a result, the three-round heavyweight bout between Brock Lesnar and Mark Hunt will become the UFC 200 main event.

Consistent with all previous potential anti-doping violations, additional information or UFC statements will be provided at the appropriate time as the process moves forward.
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shonuf;102322847 said:

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In connection with a national anti-doping control program, including analysis of 8946 urine samples, 28 athletes were found to have delivered samples free from xenobiotic anabolic steroids but with an increased testosterone/epitestosterone (T/E)_ratio (>6). Unannounced testing of the above athletes produced 2–4 additional urine samples during the next 2–3 months.A low degree of variation of the T/E ratio, with a C.V. below 30% was found in 17 of the subjects whereas 10 had a C.V. varying from 31% to 43%. One subject with a high urinary T/E ratio (10.5) had a C.V. of this ratio of 126% and also an extremely high ratio between testosterone and LH in urine. It has been reported that non-users of testosterone have T/E ratios fluctuating around a mean with a C.V. that will not exceed 30%. We found that administration of testosterone to seven healthy volunteers resulted in urinary T/E ratios that varied with a C.V. ranging from 67% to 130% during the following 4 weeks. It is concluded that among the above 28 cases, only one can be regarded as a clear case of testosterone doping. Although the vast majority of Swedish athletes have urinary T/E ratios below six, there is a subfraction with a constant higher ratio, possibly due to genetic factors.
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Big news!

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ting-done-on-jones-sample-all-came-back-clean

http://www.bjpenn.com/nsac-says-jones-cir-tests-came-back-clean/

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nevada...esults-show-no-signs-of-doping-013131428.html

According to Nevada Athletic Commission executive director Bob Bennett, his first urine sample was "watery." On Dec. 18, his T/E ratio came up as .19. Clearly, all three ratios were below that of the average male.

Some online medical experts have called for Nevada to perform the carbon isotope ratio test on Jones' samples to determine whether there was any synthetic testosterone, an anabolic steroid, in his system.

And according to Bennett, they did. He told MMAFighting.com on Thursday that the CIR test was conducted on all three Jones urine samples, and there was no presence of synthetic testosterone.

"His urine samples were tested, and according to our doctor he doesn't have a concern with the results of the urinalysis test at this time," Bennett said.

In fact, Bennett said the CIR test will also be conducted on the urine samples Jones provided on UFC 182 fight day, last Saturday night. Bennett expects the in-competition drug test results to arrive within the coming days.

By contrast, Daniel Cormier, Jones' opponent at UFC 182, had a T/E ratio of .4 on Dec. 2 and .48 on Dec. 17. Cormier passed both those tests.

"There's no problem with Daniel," Bennett said. "Trust me."
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Victor Conte speculation: (Uncomfirmed speculation, on his reaction to the test.)

First tweeted by Kevin Iole:

Medical analysis:

Determining δ13C values for urinary epitestosterone is useful for detecting cases of epitestosterone administration because the mean δ13C values for a control group is high (−23.8‰) compared with the δ13C values for synthetic epitestosterones."
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Don Catlin -

“It’s not affected by that,” Catlin. “We’ve done studies and we know that doesn’t alter the T/E ratio. What alters it is the amount of epitestosterone, and the value you have is well within the normal range. It’s normal, but it is a bit on the low side, and I would wonder. So I would go further and ask for a carbon isotope ratio test. That would tell you what’s really going on.”

As to why the NSAC might not have looked further into the level, Catlin dismissed the idea that it was because Jones’ T/E was below 6-to-1.

“It’s probably because they didn’t know what they were doing,” he said. “They really don’t understand this thing at all. It’s way beyond them.”
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It is also worth mentioning that an IRMS method for determining the 13C/12C values for urinary epitestosterone was developed to provide much needed additional support for the detection of doping with epitestosterone. Epitestosterone has no clinical use and is not available as a pharmaceutical. This compound is prohibited by sport authorities because its administration will lower the urinary T/E ratio, a marker of testosterone administration.
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LH is a hormone that is produced in the pituitary gland in both men and women....In men, LH is also produced in the pituitary gland. LH binds to receptors in certain cells in the testes called Leydig cells. This leads to the release of testosterone, a hormone that is necessary for producing sperm cells.

Women in the follicular phase of the menstrual cycle: 1.9 to 12.5 IU/L
Women at the peak of the menstrual cycle: 8.7 to 76.3 IU/L
Women in the luteal phase of the menstrual cycle: 0.5 to 16.9 IU/L
Pregnant women: less than 1.5 IU/L
Women past menopause: 15.9 to 54.0 IU/L
Women using contraceptives: 0.7 to 5.6 IU/L
Men between the ages of 20 and 70: 0.7 to 7.9 IU/L
Men over 70: 3.1 to 34 IU/L
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http://www.sportsci.org/encyc/anabstereff/anabstereff.html

http://ic.galegroup.com/ic/scic/ReferenceDetailsPage/DocumentToolsPortletWindow?displayGroupName=Reference&jsid=39891f2fb63187e22eaea36a7b402f8c&action=2&catId=&documentId=GALE|CV2644041727&u=gotitans&zid=0c2a81f3ff532f0337d4c300db2c835f

http://www.researchgate.net/publica..._analysis_in_elite_basketball_during_a_season

Professional opinion:

http://www.subjectmma.com/explained-jon-jones-drug-test-scandal/

Media articles:

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2015/1/8/7510515/t-e-levels-raise-more-red-flags-with-jon-jones-drug-test

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2015/1/7...petition-drug-tests-all-show-abnormal-hormone

http://culturecrossfire.com/sports/mma/jon-joness-testosterone-levels-are-suspect/#.VK5_jyvF-So

http://mmajunkie.com/2015/01/anti-d...rone-readings-cir-test-needed-on-jones-sample

http://www.bjpenn.com/jones-test-re...mal-hormone-levels-along-cocaine-metabolites/

http://www.f4wonline.com/component/...-his-te-ratio-wrestlemania-18-audio-tons-more

Blood drawn here, confirmation blood was drawn for testing:

Jon Jones hid from test rumor mentioned on SiriusXM Fight Club:

https://soundcloud.com/fdsafas-dsadfadsa-dafdasfada/savageradio

The first two tests for reference:

A more recent test on 12/18 showed even a more extreme ratio compared to what Iole reported from the 12/4 test:

Thoughts, discuss, flame, ect.

Last edited: Jul 22, 2016

Jin Akutsu, Jan 7, 2015

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hasar, Ancient Warrior, Rum and 20 others like this.
UL no more yellows Double Yellow Card
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Looks like Greg screwed up

UL, Jan 7, 2015

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Loiosh Detective Platinum Member
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Jin Akutsu said: ↑

Considering that is outside the range of even the bottom 5 percentile, should we give Jon another pass or is it time for him to be stripped or at least suspended?

Thoughts, discuss, flame, ect.
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Name specifically the grounds by which you would suspend him before getting your pants sued off.

Loiosh, Jan 7, 2015

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FoghornLeghorn Double Yellow Card Double Yellow Card
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So goddamn excited for this month. More so than even the fight, go figure.

I guess I knew Jones would win against Cormier, whereas here he might actually not.

FoghornLeghorn, Jan 7, 2015

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Tamriel Terror Silver Belt
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coke+ped masking may actually get him in trouble

Tamriel Terror, Jan 7, 2015

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Jin Akutsu Gengar Belt Platinum Member
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Loiosh said: ↑

Name specifically the grounds by which you would suspend him before getting your pants sued off.
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I'm not a legal expert so I can't answer that for you. Just posting what information I've gathered from the mega-thread and am inviting discussion.

Jin Akutsu, Jan 7, 2015

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accolyte1022 S.T.A.L.K.E.R Belt
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The only answer.

accolyte1022, Jan 7, 2015

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IngaVovchanchyn Titanium Belt Platinum Member
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That is thin to strip a belt from the best fighter in the UFC. I would like to see it addressed by the AC or the UFC, you know, an explanation or further investigation.

IngaVovchanchyn, Jan 7, 2015

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Jin Akutsu said: ↑

I'm not a legal expert so I can't answer that for you. Just posting what information I've gathered from the mega-thread and am inviting discussion.
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So you don't have a single reason to suspend or strip him, and your own answer to your question is:

"No, he shouldn't be stripped."

Loiosh, Jan 7, 2015

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Jin Akutsu Gengar Belt Platinum Member
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Loiosh said: ↑

So you don't have a single reason to suspend or strip him, and your own answer to your question is:

"No, he shouldn't be stripped."
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Didn't Siver get busted for masking agents and suspended? I believe there is precedent. May have been a bit different though. You may be right.

Jin Akutsu, Jan 7, 2015

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BionicCommando Silver Belt
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Unless you can turn "potentially" into "definitely", there's not much you can do there.

BionicCommando, Jan 7, 2015

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Loiosh Detective Platinum Member
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IngaVovchanchyn said: ↑

That is thin to strip a belt from the best fighter in the UFC. I would like to see it addressed by the AC or the UFC, you know, an explanation or further investigation.
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There is no chance in hell any organization would strip their best fighter of a belt without action from a commission.

Loiosh, Jan 7, 2015

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kenetics Silver Belt
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Masking Agents .. how do they work?

kenetics, Jan 7, 2015

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Dyler Turden Orange Belt
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Jin Akutsu said: ↑

Didn't Siver get busted for masking agents and suspended? I believe there is precedent. May have been a bit different though. You may be right.
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Well Jones DIDN'T test positive for a masking agent, so how does that work here then?

Dyler Turden, Jan 7, 2015

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Teppodama Red Belt
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The only outcome I look forward to is him stripped of the belt, and in a rage, whistle-blowing on a large Ped using ring. I want the Watergate of MMA. lol Baring that, I want to see his post fight test so further information can be had for reasonably intelligent discussion and speculation.

Teppodama, Jan 7, 2015

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Loiosh Detective Platinum Member
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Jin Akutsu said: ↑

Didn't Siver get busted for masking agents and suspended? I believe there is precedent. May have been a bit different though. You may be right.
Click to expand...

So you're saying Siver tested positive for a banned substance.

Grounds.

Loiosh, Jan 7, 2015

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chukutee Genetic Freak
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He passed a wada test you dummy.

chukutee, Jan 7, 2015

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dionysiac Blue Belt
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According to Greg Savage there's a rumor that Jones hid under the cage @ Jackson's to avoid testing prior to December 4th

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/thre...to-dec-4/?pc=9

dionysiac, Jan 7, 2015

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Jin Akutsu Gengar Belt Platinum Member
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Loiosh said: ↑

So you're saying Siver tested positive for a banned substance.

Grounds.
Click to expand...

http://mmajunkie.com/2014/04/ufcs-d...suspended-for-failed-drug-test-win-overturned

"Siver (21-9 MMA, 10-6 UFC), who tested positive for human chorionic gonadotropin..."

If you're asking my opinion, I'm unsure. We'll have to see how it settles out. It just doesn't look good for JBJ either way.

Jin Akutsu, Jan 7, 2015

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vkram Brown Belt
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Guantanamo Bay is the only option for Jones.

vkram, Jan 7, 2015

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NoContest and subhuman trash like this.

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