Movies JOKER v.3 (Dragonlord's Review)

[KAZSoliloquy]

Im not rating it as high as other posters but 3/10 is getting into hater territory.

Whats a few movies you do rate high?

city of god, no country for old men, django unchained, eastern promises

just watched lee chang-dong’s “burning” which was incredible

 

[TheRuthlessOne]

eastern promises

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

uhhhh, highly acclaimed by critics and fans, oscar-nominated, one of the best cronenberg films to date... and you like joker?

that’s all i need to know brother

 

[TheRuthlessOne]

one of the best cronenberg films to date.

<{chips}>


Not even in his top 5 tbh

But whatever

 

[mantis_fist]

Spoiler

I'm guessing Joker kills his therapist in the end since bloody footprints?

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

<{chips}>


Not even in his top 5 tbh

But whatever

 

[ufcfan4]

Agreed. It was confirmed by Scorsese himself that Bickle was a US Marine and served with a Special Ops unit in Vietnam. He was a combat veteran, something Fleck could never have done given his various physical and mental conditions.

Furthermore, Fleck flat out states he doesn't believe in anything, and his actions are entirely selfish. He kills out of rage and resentment against a society he believes(with some justification)either treats him with contempt or ignores him completely. His only redeeming moments are not murdering Randall the midget and leaving Sophie unharmed, if no doubt terrified. By contrast, while Travis shares some of Arthur's mental health problems, including almost certainly PTSD from his Vietnam service, he is still capable of empathy. His violence is motivated as much by concern for Iris and a desire to help her escape her life as a 13 year old prostitute as frustration at his own lot in life.

Thanks to you and @KAZSoliloquy giving insight (I really enjoyed Joker unlike KAZ but respect his opinion) because that definitely falls in line with what I was thinking. As I was watching Taxi Driver, one thing that really stood out to me was that Bickle seemed to have, in the early going, way better coping mechanisms than Fleck had. We see the similar isolation and disaffected mentality but Fleck appears sadly ill-equipped to function in the environment he is in, while Bickle actually seems to do things to actively make his life more palatable.

To give the example, Fleck is on a lot of meds in order to try to make his life less miserable. His overreliance on psychotropic drugs is probably exacerbating the issues. Bickle, meanwhile, takes a night job when he suffers from insomnia. He makes a lot of money doing it and, at least in the earlygoing, seems to maintain his composure despite acknowledging that he goes through tough areas and has had to deal with problematic customers. Mainly, I got the vibe that despite Bickle's increasingly dangerous and frightening behavior, likely stemming in part from PTSD and his philosophy regarding the NY he encounters late at night, that he was actively attempting and was even equipped to do something to rectify his problems. Fleck just seems like he's in such a bad way that it would be very difficult to ameliorate his circumstances.

It's cool that you bring up the empathy aspects as well. To me, you have two threads with Bickle. Unlike with Fleck, the capacity for violence, the building resentment seem oddly diffuse and impersonal. Maybe the whole point with targeting Pallantine was meant to be some sort of vengeance against Cybill Shepherd for rejecting him. But I really didn't see it that way. And I don't think the movie pushes that narrative. Once he lumps Cybill in with all the other "people in hell," he doesn't even seem to think about her in any substantial away or at least as far the film conveys. We get the insight that Bickle sees the streets of NY as a sinful sewer, but, interestingly, we don't even see anyone do anything really bad toward him personally. With Fleck, we see him have endure personal affronts and abuse at every turn.

Wizard (Peter f'n Boyle, RIP) and the co-workers are even pretty nice to Bickle, despite maybe thinking he's a bit strange. Hell, you even got the sense, with Cybill, that Travis was one fewer stupid decision away from becoming involved with a beautiful, intelligent woman.

So the other thread besides the intentions toward Pallantine (if they represent a more anarchic, horrific violence that Bickle is capable of toward innocents) is the contrast with Iris' situation. His being rightly horrified by the life she is trapped in and his desire to save her from it definitely added a different element. So if Fleck ultimately perpetrates violence against individuals he felt wronged him, Bickle ends up perpetrating violence against those who are exploiting and abusing a young girl.

With Joker, things almost play out like Arthur sees many people doing awful shit to him and then falls into evil with the notion that he will do far worse against anyone who has done him a wrong, regardless of the degree of the offense. With Taxi Driver, Bickle sees terrible shit (but not happening to him personally) and feels the drive to do something terrible as well. Frankly, I know the film ends with the notion that Travis, in spite of being perceived as a hero by the city, is still a ticking time bomb. But I found myself hoping the character would be able to rehabilitate himself.

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

Thanks to you and @KAZSoliloquy giving insight (I really enjoyed Joker unlike KAZ but respect his opinion) because that definitely falls in line with what I was thinking. As I was watching Taxi Driver, one thing that really stood out to me was that Bickle seemed to have, in the early going, way better coping mechanisms than Fleck had. We see the similar isolation and disaffected mentality but Fleck appears sadly ill-equipped to function in the environment he is in, while Bickle actually seems to do things to actively make his life more palatable.

To give the example, Fleck is on a lot of meds in order to try to make his life less miserable. His overreliance on psychotropic drugs is probably exacerbating the issues. Bickle, meanwhile, takes a night job when he suffers from insomnia. He makes a lot of money doing it and, at least in the earlygoing, seems to maintain his composure despite acknowledging that he goes through tough areas and has had to deal with problematic customers. Mainly, I got the vibe that despite Bickle's increasingly dangerous and frightening behavior, likely stemming in part from PTSD and his philosophy regarding the NY he encounters late at night, that he was actively attempting and was even equipped to do something to rectify his problems. Fleck just seems like he's in such a bad way that it would be very difficult to ameliorate his circumstances.

It's cool that you bring up the empathy aspects as well. To me, you have two threads with Bickle. Unlike with Fleck, the capacity for violence, the building resentment seem oddly diffuse and impersonal. Maybe the whole point with targeting Pallantine was meant to be some sort of vengeance against Cybill Shepherd for rejecting him. But I really didn't see it that way. And I don't think the movie pushes that narrative. Once he lumps Cybill in with all the other "people in hell," he doesn't even seem to think about her in any substantial away or at least as far the film conveys. We get the insight that Bickle sees the streets of NY as a sinful sewer, but, interestingly, we don't even see anyone do anything really bad toward him personally. With Fleck, we see him have endure personal affronts and abuse at every turn.

Wizard (Peter f'n Boyle, RIP) and the co-workers are even pretty nice to Bickle, despite maybe thinking he's a bit strange. Hell, you even got the sense, with Cybill, that Travis was one fewer stupid decision away from becoming involved with a beautiful, intelligent woman.

So the other thread besides the intentions toward Pallantine (if they represent a more anarchic, horrific violence that Bickle is capable of toward innocents) is the contrast with Iris' situation. His being rightly horrified by the life she is trapped in and his desire to save her from it definitely added a different element. So if Fleck ultimately perpetrates violence against individuals he felt wronged him, Bickle ends up perpetrating violence against those who are exploiting and abusing a young girl.

With Joker, things almost play out like Arthur sees many people doing awful shit to him and then falls into evil with the notion that he will do far worse against anyone who has done him a wrong, regardless of the degree of the offense. With Taxi Driver, Bickle sees terrible shit (but not happening to him personally) and feels the drive to do something terrible as well. Frankly, I know the film ends with the notion that Travis, in spite of being perceived as a hero by the city, is still a ticking time bomb. But I found myself hoping the character would be able to rehabilitate himself.

i think what you’re basically describing is nuance. you see a lot of it in the character of travis bickle and not so much in arthur fleck.

 

[Here's the thing]

This dude KAZSosillygay is a joke. Don't take his opinion seriously. He's one of those dorks who needs to feel cool by disagreeing with the popular opinion.

 

[Here's the thing]

Thanks to you and @KAZSoliloquy giving insight (I really enjoyed Joker unlike KAZ but respect his opinion) because that definitely falls in line with what I was thinking. As I was watching Taxi Driver, one thing that really stood out to me was that Bickle seemed to have, in the early going, way better coping mechanisms than Fleck had. We see the similar isolation and disaffected mentality but Fleck appears sadly ill-equipped to function in the environment he is in, while Bickle actually seems to do things to actively make his life more palatable.

To give the example, Fleck is on a lot of meds in order to try to make his life less miserable. His overreliance on psychotropic drugs is probably exacerbating the issues. Bickle, meanwhile, takes a night job when he suffers from insomnia. He makes a lot of money doing it and, at least in the earlygoing, seems to maintain his composure despite acknowledging that he goes through tough areas and has had to deal with problematic customers. Mainly, I got the vibe that despite Bickle's increasingly dangerous and frightening behavior, likely stemming in part from PTSD and his philosophy regarding the NY he encounters late at night, that he was actively attempting and was even equipped to do something to rectify his problems. Fleck just seems like he's in such a bad way that it would be very difficult to ameliorate his circumstances.

It's cool that you bring up the empathy aspects as well. To me, you have two threads with Bickle. Unlike with Fleck, the capacity for violence, the building resentment seem oddly diffuse and impersonal. Maybe the whole point with targeting Pallantine was meant to be some sort of vengeance against Cybill Shepherd for rejecting him. But I really didn't see it that way. And I don't think the movie pushes that narrative. Once he lumps Cybill in with all the other "people in hell," he doesn't even seem to think about her in any substantial away or at least as far the film conveys. We get the insight that Bickle sees the streets of NY as a sinful sewer, but, interestingly, we don't even see anyone do anything really bad toward him personally. With Fleck, we see him have endure personal affronts and abuse at every turn.

Wizard (Peter f'n Boyle, RIP) and the co-workers are even pretty nice to Bickle, despite maybe thinking he's a bit strange. Hell, you even got the sense, with Cybill, that Travis was one fewer stupid decision away from becoming involved with a beautiful, intelligent woman.

So the other thread besides the intentions toward Pallantine (if they represent a more anarchic, horrific violence that Bickle is capable of toward innocents) is the contrast with Iris' situation. His being rightly horrified by the life she is trapped in and his desire to save her from it definitely added a different element. So if Fleck ultimately perpetrates violence against individuals he felt wronged him, Bickle ends up perpetrating violence against those who are exploiting and abusing a young girl.

With Joker, things almost play out like Arthur sees many people doing awful shit to him and then falls into evil with the notion that he will do far worse against anyone who has done him a wrong, regardless of the degree of the offense. With Taxi Driver, Bickle sees terrible shit (but not happening to him personally) and feels the drive to do something terrible as well. Frankly, I know the film ends with the notion that Travis, in spite of being perceived as a hero by the city, is still a ticking time bomb. But I found myself hoping the character would be able to rehabilitate himself.

Damn, son!

 

[Big Brown Clown]

Adjusting for inflation is dumb since you're comparing movies released in completely different landscapes. There's so much more competition from streaming and the internet today. Ticket sales are down across the board compared to decades past. Movies were in theaters for longer periods depending on the the time period. Pirating is way more common etc. It makes way more sense to compare a movie with it's contemporaries.

Also Lol @ the guy sperging out trying to convince everyone how refined his taste in movies is. Joaquin deserves an Oscar for his work alone but I'd also love to see it for the meltdown from people like that equally as much.

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

Adjusting for inflation is dumb since you're comparing movies released in completely different landscapes. There's so much more competition from streaming and the internet today. Ticket sales are down across the board compared to decades past. Movies were in theaters for longer periods depending on the the time period. Pirating is way more common etc. It makes way more sense to compare a movie with it's contemporaries.

Also Lol @ the guy sperging out trying to convince everyone how refined his taste in movies is. Joaquin deserves an Oscar for his work alone but I'd also love to see it for the meltdown from people like that equally as much.

lmao alrighty m8



oscar worthy. sure. worst case of overacting i’ve seen this decade

 

[KAZSoliloquy]

this is basically joaquin’s entire performance.

 

[minute bull]

There was a Sherpost on him.

If this hasn't been posted yet I would like to point out that Gary Gulman is the real life comedian that was doing a set before Arthur went up to do his.

‘Joker’ Actor Confused Joaquin Phoenix for ‘Irritating’ Extra Because of His Laugh

Comedian Gary Gulman struggled through several takes of his scene during filming because of Phoenix's performance.

“The one thing I will say that was a little bit irritating is that when I was running through my set, there were all these extras, and they’d clearly been told that I was doing well, so they were laughing and enthusiastic. And there was one extra who was so enthusiastic in his laughter that it was throwing off my timing.”​

 

[clutchCAT420]

I saw the movie during break. Chugged an 24oz Heineken and smoked a blunt before going in.
Imo the best movie script this year. Phoenix deserves a oscar. I enjoyed the lighting and camera angles. The music scores and playlist was awesome.
Rock and roll part 2 gave me goosebumps in a good way. That song has been affiliated with clutch city since 1994-95.
I only wish they would have made Arthur a genius in chemistry ..

 

[Cole train]

Thanks to you and @KAZSoliloquy giving insight (I really enjoyed Joker unlike KAZ but respect his opinion) because that definitely falls in line with what I was thinking. As I was watching Taxi Driver, one thing that really stood out to me was that Bickle seemed to have, in the early going, way better coping mechanisms than Fleck had. We see the similar isolation and disaffected mentality but Fleck appears sadly ill-equipped to function in the environment he is in, while Bickle actually seems to do things to actively make his life more palatable.

To give the example, Fleck is on a lot of meds in order to try to make his life less miserable. His overreliance on psychotropic drugs is probably exacerbating the issues. Bickle, meanwhile, takes a night job when he suffers from insomnia. He makes a lot of money doing it and, at least in the earlygoing, seems to maintain his composure despite acknowledging that he goes through tough areas and has had to deal with problematic customers. Mainly, I got the vibe that despite Bickle's increasingly dangerous and frightening behavior, likely stemming in part from PTSD and his philosophy regarding the NY he encounters late at night, that he was actively attempting and was even equipped to do something to rectify his problems. Fleck just seems like he's in such a bad way that it would be very difficult to ameliorate his circumstances.

It's cool that you bring up the empathy aspects as well. To me, you have two threads with Bickle. Unlike with Fleck, the capacity for violence, the building resentment seem oddly diffuse and impersonal. Maybe the whole point with targeting Pallantine was meant to be some sort of vengeance against Cybill Shepherd for rejecting him. But I really didn't see it that way. And I don't think the movie pushes that narrative. Once he lumps Cybill in with all the other "people in hell," he doesn't even seem to think about her in any substantial away or at least as far the film conveys. We get the insight that Bickle sees the streets of NY as a sinful sewer, but, interestingly, we don't even see anyone do anything really bad toward him personally. With Fleck, we see him have endure personal affronts and abuse at every turn.

Wizard (Peter f'n Boyle, RIP) and the co-workers are even pretty nice to Bickle, despite maybe thinking he's a bit strange. Hell, you even got the sense, with Cybill, that Travis was one fewer stupid decision away from becoming involved with a beautiful, intelligent woman.

So the other thread besides the intentions toward Pallantine (if they represent a more anarchic, horrific violence that Bickle is capable of toward innocents) is the contrast with Iris' situation. His being rightly horrified by the life she is trapped in and his desire to save her from it definitely added a different element. So if Fleck ultimately perpetrates violence against individuals he felt wronged him, Bickle ends up perpetrating violence against those who are exploiting and abusing a young girl.

With Joker, things almost play out like Arthur sees many people doing awful shit to him and then falls into evil with the notion that he will do far worse against anyone who has done him a wrong, regardless of the degree of the offense. With Taxi Driver, Bickle sees terrible shit (but not happening to him personally) and feels the drive to do something terrible as well. Frankly, I know the film ends with the notion that Travis, in spite of being perceived as a hero by the city, is still a ticking time bomb. But I found myself hoping the character would be able to rehabilitate himself.

Travis was just a troubled normal guy broken by loneliness (his change literally happens when he sees people taking romantic walks after breaking up with the lady he had a crush on)

Fleck was legit crazy and had been in an mental hospital

 

[clutchCAT420]

next guy who will be the joker has some big shoes to fill

I can see jayden smith taking on the role. Young to attract the millenial crowd. Also brilliant and is an artist like the joker.

 

[Gambit MMA]

For me it wasn’t that amazing to give it a 9 or up. I have told friends I give it like a 8.5.

Great film, and I’m glad it’s killing it at the box office. Dc needs to continue to hit on these Dc black series movies. I wonder what the next one will be

 

[Amerikuracana]

I saw the movie during break. Chugged an 24oz Heineken and smoked a blunt before going in.
Imo the best movie script this year. Phoenix deserves a oscar. I enjoyed the lighting and camera angles. The music scores and playlist was awesome.
Rock and roll part 2 gave me goosebumps in a good way. That song has been affiliated with clutch city since 1994-95.
I only wish they would have made Arthur a genius in chemistry ..

Yes to the last part. Big yes. At least proficient or an enthusiest.

Making the other guests in the show laugh hysterically at Murray time would have saved what was a lower point in a fantastic movie.

 

[7even]