Joanna did better than that..

[humdizzle]

Val fights different now than she used to. Back then she was more willing to stand and bang. Now she just takes the easy road and sees where the opponent is weakest and exploits that. Easier win, less damage, less cardio burned.

If current Val fought prime Joanna it would look like this recent fight.

 

[HHJ]

Hell no.

Current Valentina is so much more flat footed because she knows she's older and can't waste as much energy like she used to. Zhang isn't really a good fighter from the outside, and her striking isn't really good enough to get her on the inside, so Val didn't have to do much to keep her at range. When Val is pushed, her footwork goes almost completely within 2.5 rounds nowadays, to the point where she usually just stands there on the spot waiting to go for counters. It's still good and too much for pretty much everyone she's fighting except for Manon who was barreling past it and forcing clinches.

Prime Valentina wouldn't have gotten touched by a 1-2 fighter who only goes in a straight line like Manon lol. She sure as shit wouldn't have gotten caught in extended clinches.

Prime Valentina was running rings around girls, not getting touched, and doing whatever she wanted int he clinch. Current, old and declining Val is still amazing and too good for her division and way more skilled than anyone at BW as well, but Prime Val would kick current Val's ass badly.

That parry to spinning elbow was so wicked sick tho

 

[OldFashion]

Shes better in some ways. Not better in others. Theres several arguments in favor of weili. Two head to head wins. Closer rematch with rose. Better competition during her title reign. Lemos, suarez, yan and obviously JJ herself are better than penne, gadelha, letourneau and karolina

It's between Weili and JJ as far as SW Goat. Rose is somewhere below

Rose on a good day is better than both she's just way more inconsistent and mindfucks herself. She beat both JJ and Weili twice so there's really no argument there. It's just that they have more title defenses.
Also, Suarez is way overrated lmao If she couldn't wrestlefuck Weili you think she could do anythign against JJ who had the best takedown defense in womens sw history? LOL

 

[Mmmmmmma1234]

Hell no.

Current Valentina is so much more flat footed because she knows she's older and can't waste as much energy like she used to. Zhang isn't really a good fighter from the outside, and her striking isn't really good enough to get her on the inside, so Val didn't have to do much to keep her at range. When Val is pushed, her footwork goes almost completely within 2.5 rounds nowadays, to the point where she usually just stands there on the spot waiting to go for counters. It's still good and too much for pretty much everyone she's fighting except for Manon who was barreling past it and forcing clinches.

Prime Valentina wouldn't have gotten touched by a 1-2 fighter who only goes in a straight line like Manon lol. She sure as shit wouldn't have gotten caught in extended clinches.

Prime Valentina was running rings around girls, not getting touched, and doing whatever she wanted int he clinch. Current, old and declining Val is still amazing and too good for her division and way more skilled than anyone at BW as well, but Prime Val would kick current Val's ass badly.

While some of what you say is true. I think they are right and you're wrong about prime vs current. She was more flashy and mobile but her training is now alot more wrestling focused, and the majority of time good wrestling > good striking. The woman getting ragdolled by Santos or getting taken down by grasso is a thing of the past she's turned into a Khabib how she's beating grasso/Manon and Zhang.
I'd bet on current val doing that to prime val as well. Which is really something too say about how dedicated Val is to mma and improving.

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

i don't know why people are surprised. Carla Esparza took Weili down and even tussled with her before finally Weili's athleticism took the fight over. skill wise Weili is not that special, she's just athletic and willing to mix it up. Valentina is a generational talent.

 

[xhaydenx]

While some of what you say is true. I think they are right and you're wrong about prime vs current. She was more flashy and mobile but her training is now alot more wrestling focused, and the majority of time good wrestling > good striking. The woman getting ragdolled by Santos or getting taken down by grasso is a thing of the past she's turned into a Khabib how she's beating grasso/Manon and Zhang.
I'd bet on current val doing that to prime val as well. Which is really something too say about how dedicated Val is to mma and improving.

I don't really agree.

I don't think her training is more focused on anything other than her opponent these days. It's just we're seeing more wrestling because those are her easiest paths to win recently.

Like, you say she's turned into Khabib with how she's beating Grasso, Manon and Zhang, but she knew Grasso was way more of a boxer than a wrestler. She knew she was bigger and could control girls like Andrade and Zhang, so that's what she did. She knew she had the reach on Zhang, so she used that too. Not really sure how you think she was like Khabib against Manon. She had all the control time in the first round but then lost all the control time in the remaining 4. Literally the only thing that made that a close fight was that she couldn't really outgrapple Manon and was getting held against the cage for extended periods.

She would still struggle with Santos in grappling, and I don't really think what Grasso's backtake off a spinning back kick miss really says much about how she was then to how she was in their third fight. That was a mistake in her striking, not her grappling.

Prime Val would never be tired and stuck on the spot and getting pushed into clinches by a 1-2 striker like Manon, and a slow ass, basic striker with shit footwork like Santos would never have gotten close enough to grapple her.

 

[xhaydenx]

Rose on a good day is better than both she's just way more inconsistent and mindfucks herself. She beat both JJ and Weili twice so there's really no argument there. It's just that they have more title defenses.
Also, Suarez is way overrated lmao If she couldn't wrestlefuck Weili you think she could do anythign against JJ who had the best takedown defense in womens sw history? LOL

Rose doesn't "minduck" herself.

Whenever she's in there, she's never not been totally dialed in and following her coaches instructions to a tee.

Almost all her losses at SW literally just came from her slowing down around halfway when girls put a pace on her. KK did it, and Andrade did it once and wasn't far off doing it a second time. She was a lot more green and reckless when she first fought Carla and Carla just tired her out with wrestling too. In the rematch, her coaches didn't want a repeat of that and had her follow that dumb plan that didn't work.

Rose isn't inconsistent at all. You can count on her to start really well and slow down if the pace is put on her. It's still happening now in her last 4 fights at FLW. Sometimes she'd one enough, but other times like against Erin, she just got too tired to win rounds.

 

[Streeter]

Well, Joanna is the SW GOAT and the second best striker in W UFC history.

Shes the most accomplished but unsure i would say the GOAT sw after goung 0-4 in the Rose/Zhsng/JJ series where they fought each other twice. Tough to say shes goat after that . Accomplished yes she had most defenses an longest run. Shes not the best SW imo based on that

 

[Superzorro]

I’ve been telling people that. Weili beat a Joanna that got a boob job and was trying to find a husband. In her prime when she didn’t care about cosmetics, Joanna was a better fighter. The division also started to figure out her style. But yeah, any fight Weili’s in where blitzing people with power and explosiveness doesn’t work, she loses. Shes not a skillful fighter.

 

[aerius]

Rose doesn't "minduck" herself.

Whenever she's in there, she's never not been totally dialed in and following her coaches instructions to a tee.

Almost all her losses at SW literally just came from her slowing down around halfway when girls put a pace on her. KK did it, and Andrade did it once and wasn't far off doing it a second time. She was a lot more green and reckless when she first fought Carla and Carla just tired her out with wrestling too. In the rematch, her coaches didn't want a repeat of that and had her follow that dumb plan that didn't work.

Rose isn't inconsistent at all. You can count on her to start really well and slow down if the pace is put on her. It's still happening now in her last 4 fights at FLW. Sometimes she'd one enough, but other times like against Erin, she just got too tired to win rounds.

Rose has known weaknesses (mediocre clinch game, poor low kick and body shot defence, falls apart under sustained pressure), it's just that most of her opponents including JJ and Weili go braindead and consent to a long range kickboxing match with her. Everyone who bangs the body and clinches Rose has given her a ton of trouble or beaten her clean, Karolina, Andrade, Blanchfield, and Manon all beat her that way and Joanna had her hurt and looking like she wanted to cry after a clinch exchange at the end of the 3rd round in their rematch.

Rose has good skills but she's also the one with the most exploitable weaknesses, she'd have a lot more losses on her record if opponents went after her weaknesses instead of kickboxing with her on the outside.

 

[DapperDave]

Meh.
DNRT.

Rose and Weili are both too small for 125.

They can beat unskilled bigger opponents but they have no chance against skilled bigger opponents.

 

[Mohawk Banditó]

I disagree I think gadelha .. better than lemos

And both of them should have losses to strawweight goat Angela Hill. Someone neither Joanna nor Zhang beat.

 

[RockyLockridge]

And both of them should have losses to strawweight goat Angela Hill. Someone neither Joanna nor Zhang beat.

The Jeremy Horn of wmma

 

[xhaydenx]

Rose has known weaknesses (mediocre clinch game, poor low kick and body shot defence, falls apart under sustained pressure), it's just that most of her opponents including JJ and Weili go braindead and consent to a long range kickboxing match with her. Everyone who bangs the body and clinches Rose has given her a ton of trouble or beaten her clean, Karolina, Andrade, Blanchfield, and Manon all beat her that way and Joanna had her hurt and looking like she wanted to cry after a clinch exchange at the end of the 3rd round in their rematch.

Rose has good skills but she's also the one with the most exploitable weaknesses, she'd have a lot more losses on her record if opponents went after her weaknesses instead of kickboxing with her on the outside.

That's exactly it with Rose, but people just instead says she's mentally weak and not consistent, which is nonsense. She slows down if pressed hard. Combine that with body work and she almost always loses.

I wouldn't say Zhang and JJ went "braindead" against her lol. Rose has pretty good footwork to avoid those inside exchanges. Zhang and JJ are sorta comfortable fighting on the outside too. Zhang got outgrappled anyway.