Jiu Jitsu in the Olympics. (long read with info on where we stand)

[Bullheaded]

Honestly I expect to see more of a change of judo rules to include BJJ guys than a new bjj comp at the olympics.

In France, the Judo federation is pushing hard in that way, to try to attract bjj guys to judo and develop more newaza judo. It would seem more logical to me actually.

 

[Doughbelly]

Cuba is a poor country that is currently under sanctions and yet they manage to outperform the USA on a per capita basis in the olympics.

Sport in Cuba - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They dont have zebra mats or brand judogis (unless you become good enough to get adidas sponsorship). Saying that you can't develop BJJ because poor people can't afford gis is a joke, where there is a will there is a how. If you knew how much people in poverty spends in alcohol and other drugs you wouldn't believe it.

Cuba is a relatively wealthy country compared to the countries of sub Saharan Africa to which I was referring. In terms of HDI, HPI, etc, Cuba is a mid range in the developing country index. I'm referring to the 10-20 from the bottom of the list, which is poverty on a completely different scale from which you're referring.

The only other country in the entire Western Hemisphere that even approaches the level of poverty of sub Saharan Africa is Haiti.

Where are you from?

 

[Doughbelly]

Honestly I expect to see more of a change of judo rules to include BJJ guys than a new bjj comp at the olympics.

In France, the Judo federation is pushing hard in that way, to try to attract bjj guys to judo and develop more newaza judo. It would seem more logical to me actually.

As I stated earlier, this is what I expected the IJF and particularly USJI/F/A to do 10-15 years ago. Instead, they went in exactly the opposite way.

 

[Bullheaded]

As I stated earlier, this is what I expected the IJF and particularly USJI/F/A to do 10-15 years ago. Instead, they went in exactly the opposite way.

Well maybe I'm wrong, but I can tell you that's the state of affair here. For a while the premises of a bjj federation here wanted to be included in the judo federation, but they flat out denied it. The FFJ are denying any possibility to obtain national funds to create bjj competitions, stating that BJJ is just Newaza judo. It gets to a point where BJJers have to learn judo and get a BB in judo to be able to teach BJJ in a public facility and get insurance for their students. I don't really complain, I like the fact that instructors are able to do stuff on their feet too, but it's hard for them to do both and be good at both.

All in all 10 or 15 years ago BJJ wasn't really threatening to judo I think. The situation has changed a lot since then. BJJ is attracting a lot more young students than Judo does now.

 

[koolinkunming]

I don't care much about the schematics, I just hope that bjj NEVER becomes part of the Olympics. They ruin enough as it is and the IBJJF already has that covered.

Let us not forget that bjj is a martial art, not a sport.

 

[Rod1]

Cuba is a relatively wealthy country compared to the countries of sub Saharan Africa to which I was referring. In terms of HDI, HPI, etc, Cuba is a mid range in the developing country index. I'm referring to the 10-20 from the bottom of the list, which is poverty on a completely different scale from which you're referring.

The only other country in the entire Western Hemisphere that even approaches the level of poverty of sub Saharan Africa is Haiti.

Where are you from?

Im from Mexico and i was not really arguing about subsaharan Africa, i was mainly arguing about China. Subsaharan africa really have other problems before any sport development is even concerned.

 

[Rod1]

I don't care much about the schematics, I just hope that bjj NEVER becomes part of the Olympics.

I sure hope they do, that would mean big public funding to BJJ, quality BJJ at colleges and penetration in countries that don't really care about it right now, plus the bar will be raised dramatically to a point you would laugh at the level you see right now, specially at the athletic department.

They ruin enough as it is and the IBJJF already has that covered.

Let us not forget that bjj is a martial art, not a sport.

I bet that more than 95% of the dojos out there focus on sport bjj, that BS about true MA is left to McDojos and the 90s really.

 

[ShanghaiBJJ]

Im from Mexico and i was not really arguing about subsaharan Africa, i was mainly arguing about China. Subsaharan africa really have other problems before any sport development is even concerned.

Which you don't seem to know anything about.

Rural China is much, much poorer than you seem to think. Even overall, poverty is about 6 times as high as in Mexico, even after the significant gains over the last decades.

The point I was making (from my own experience) is that people don't bother as much to learn a foreign martial art, when their main concern is

a) to get enough money to feed a family, or

b) get rich, if they have achieved a).

 

[ElKarlo]

I'm not a judo guy, I'm a bjj guy with a prior wrestling background.

My point on popularity is that it's not necessarily going to increase in popularity just by being in the Olympics. It won't be publicized, and it will air at obscure hours. Honestly, I think the global spread of MMA is by var a better vehicle to popularize BJJ around the world.

Whether the rule changes are random or not, I think they are bad. I think they weaken the art. As far as changes in judo, there used to be a lot more time allowed for ground grappling, you used to be able to do things like shoulder locks, and you can't do anything like a triangle with pulling the head, or a guillotine choke. I think this has made many judoka neglect the ground grappling aspect. Ask anyone who trains judo and they will tell you that schools nowadays range from teaching 50/50 standup/ground (very few), to schools that teach very little ground work at all. They have also banned several grips that are acceptable in BJJ (for example you can't grab 2 hands on the same lapel, and you can't grab a leg for more than 5 seconds or something, and now they have almost completely banned leg attacks as takedowns).

I think one of BJJ's strengths is that it is very much a freestyle/hybrid grappling art. There is the positional progression that awards points, a few restrictions on submissions (more than I'd like), but beyond that you can basically use whatever works, which is something that I think is great, and could be lost if it becomes an Olympic sport. By getting into the Olympics, your sport becomes a slave to the IOC, and loses its freedom and independence. If the Committee doesn't like something, it's out. You have no say. I tossed out an example. Say the IOC thinks that groundwork is boring or unnecessary, like they seem to think with judo. Do they make it more like judo? Doesn't that make it pointless to have such a similar sport in the Olympics? Or say they decide that you can't pull the head with the triangle, which is what they decided in judo because supposedly that's too dangerous. Do you think that's a good thing?

Geez sounds like Judo has been ruined mostly. It'd do it a lot of good to make a seperate non-Kodakan org and get back to real Judo. Wah!

 

[SuperSuperRambo]

I bet that more than 95% of the dojos out there focus on sport bjj, that BS about true MA is left to McDojos and the 90s really.

What BS? Training a style for fighting is BS? In my eyes BJJ is, and always has been, a martial art that can be competed in purely for sport as well. That's why I train it.

 

[SuperSuperRambo]

Geez sounds like Judo has been ruined mostly. It'd do it a lot of good to make a seperate non-Kodakan org and get back to real Judo. Wah!

Eh, well, don't quote me as an authority on it.

 

[Rod1]

Which you don't seem to know anything about.

Rural China is much, much poorer than you seem to think. Even overall, poverty is about 6 times as high as in Mexico, even after the significant gains over the last decades.

Shanghai its not rural China, and there is no much difference between rural china and rural Mexico. You have over 15 million mexicans living with under 600 dollars a year and about 35 million living under 1000 dollars, cost of living is also higher.

The point I was making (from my own experience) is that people don't bother as much to learn a foreign martial art, when their main concern is

a) to get enough money to feed a family, or

Probably a culture thing, here you can make people get into do anything they want without enough motivation, of course you wont develop it on the rural areas, but in the cities its doable with the "middle income" people.

b) get rich, if they have achieved a).

Again a culture thing, in Mexico people live by the day, they really don't save as it has an history of having little respect of private property from the government and of course 4 consecutive hyperinflations that turned saved money into toilet paper.

I can see what you mean, chinese inmigrants in my city really take off quickly by hard work and saving.

 

[Deleted member 56619]

I don't know about Olympic Judo, but just look at what a giant pile of shit Olympic Boxing is. I hope BJJ never comes close to making it into the Olympics.

 

[Chute Stomp]

Never happen. They barely want the current combat sports, boxing, TKD, judo and wrestling. They're always looking to get rid of wrestling, and boxing has many critic's. I watched a bit of the TKD at the last and it was horrible. Barely even resembled a fight.

 

[Rod1]

What BS? Training a style for fighting is BS? In my eyes BJJ is, and always has been, a martial art that can be competed in purely for sport as well. That's why I train it.

Do you honestly think that is the best way of self.defense? Because all fights are among unarmed people that won't strike and will grapple starting on the knees?

Modern BJJ is a sport with self-defense applications and that's it, just like Judo, Karate, Boxing, Wrestling, TKD etc etc.

Self-defense requires specific training, and live sparring against live threats, go to a Krav Maga class and do a sparring against someone with a plastic knife, you will see how quickly you die under a real threat enviroment. In japan the police has special judo randori against knife armed subjects.

All MAs are better than nothing that's a no brainer.

 

[Jdonw]

Do you honestly think that is the best way of self.defense? Because all fights are among unarmed people that won't strike and will grapple starting on the knees?

Modern BJJ is a sport with self-defense applications and that's it, just like Judo, Karate, Boxing, Wrestling, TKD etc etc.

Self-defense requires specific training, and live sparring against live threats, go to a Krav Maga class and do a sparring against someone with a plastic knife, you will see how quickly you die under a real threat enviroment. In japan the police has special judo randori against knife armed subjects.

All MAs are better than nothing that's a no brainer.

By your logic, the Japanese randori with a knife isn't good for self defense either. What if the opponent has a gun?

All martial arts are useless. People should all be carrying guns. Its my right as an American to conceal carry which they infringe on when I'm on campus. And where are people getting sexually assaulted, on college campuses. I guess I'll just worry about that when I have to use it. The cops aren't going to see it when I conceal it.

 

[Rod1]

I don't know about Olympic Judo, but just look at what a giant pile of shit Olympic Boxing is. I hope BJJ never comes close to making it into the Olympics.

Why is olympic boxing a pile of shit? you have to remember that pro boxers fight once every few months, olympic boxers will fight several times a day, if you think amateur boxing isnt real enough its idiotic.

Try having a pro boxer fight 3 fights in the same night or even 1 time every week not likely.

Also great amateur boxers usually have good pro careers when they jump, and more importantly, long careers as they are more technical.

 

[Doughbelly]

Well maybe I'm wrong, but I can tell you that's the state of affair here. For a while the premises of a bjj federation here wanted to be included in the judo federation, but they flat out denied it. The FFJ are denying any possibility to obtain national funds to create bjj competitions, stating that BJJ is just Newaza judo. It gets to a point where BJJers have to learn judo and get a BB in judo to be able to teach BJJ in a public facility and get insurance for their students. I don't really complain, I like the fact that instructors are able to do stuff on their feet too, but it's hard for them to do both and be good at both.

All in all 10 or 15 years ago BJJ wasn't really threatening to judo I think. The situation has changed a lot since then. BJJ is attracting a lot more young students than Judo does now.

I don't think you are wrong and the inclusion of the French perspective is a good one. There are few countries in the world that have integrated and regulated the instruction of judo as France has and obviously, the generalities that most of us speak to refer to NA/Canada and east Asia.

That said, I've heard most of these arguments before. "BJJ is just judo newaza." I heard it in 1993 and I still hear it now. Oddly enough, the only judoka as a group that clearly recognizes that they are not one and the same are east Asians.

 

[Rod1]

By your logic, the Japanese randori with a knife isn't good for self defense either. What if the opponent has a gun?

Japan its not a gun culture.

All martial arts are useless. People should all be carrying guns. Its my right as an American to conceal carry which they infringe on when I'm on campus.

exaggeration to disprove a point, never seen that in the internet

 

[lparnes]

the should have both no-gi and gi in the olympics, not change the rules, but have naga rules in the olympics, if they change the rules it will rune mma forever