Jesse Williams speech

I get that's the part that would anger the most people and within the context of black artistry it makes perfect sense to that audience.

I'm going to get far more philosophical on this subject than I normally do but I don't expect any agreement. Not because you or anyone is close-minded but because I think differences on this boil down to fundamental differences in how people see this world. Opinions they formed long before they could rationalize the subject and that flows in both directions.

There is a general opinion within the black community (and if you're black, understand I'm not trying to speak for you) that as Paul Mooney put it:
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That America is perfectly comfortable taking elements of black America, copying it, incorporating it while simultaneously denigrating the creators of said elements. Now, there's 2 sides to that and Williams addressed part of it in the previous part of his speech re: branding of their bodies, chasing money, etc. A clear message to those black performers that they've undermined their community's standing via a desire to make commodities of themselves.

But the part here about black gold, burying black bodies out sight, etc. is a reference to how black art and black ideas can become celebrated while the people themselves don't share in acclaim. Hip hop is probably a decent example. Non-black people can put on the clothes, copy the slang, duplicate the music and celebrate all of the elements as something wonderful (realizing of course that plenty of people aren't hip hop fans) while simultaneously dismissing the culture that created hip hop as something uniquely and negatively black - emblematic of a debased pro-crime, anti-family, irresponsible culture.

So they extract the culture for social purposes while burying/dismissing/discarding the larger black social contexts that created that culture. To the black community, for which hip hop encompasses far more than the just the mainstream element that appeals to the most fervent consumer base (primarily not a black consumer base), it's a bit of a slap in the face. The mainstream won't adopt the messaging of more socially conscious rappers or singers to celebrate. It's a lesson that black artists need to be reminded of. That their messaging matters because the message you're selling (branding onto your body) isn't actually being used to raise the community just because you got paid to sell it.

This was a cogent argument and eloquently written post, but I disagree with your last point.

Black artists have largely been able to dictate the narrative surrounding hip hop music (and many other genres) and what they have chosen, is a celebration and glamorization of the urban experience (thug life). This in and of itself is a social commentary, as contemporary rap is often auto-biographical, describing what it means to succeed (and what it takes) in the communities that they come from.

You may think that the more socially conscious rappers are being pushed to the fringe due to the appetites of main stream consumers (which in turn, commodifies black music), but I would argue that commercially successful rappers have just put a different spin on the same social issues. Instead of condemning the pervasive issues that are destroying their communities, they wear it like badges of honors - they are the hustlers, the gangsters... the guys that survived the trial by fire and now have the credibility to sing and celebrate it. (As a tangent, I think that this is one of the biggest issues facing the black community - the values and customs that are now being espoused by popular black artists are not condusive to healthy and sustainable communities)

Rightly or wrongly, black artists have chosen the trajectory of their music, and many have become enormously successful in doing so. This will further encourage more artists to gravitate towards this particular genre of music (including non black performers).

With that being said, there have been several white artists who have blatantly appropriated elements of black culture while being completely divorced from the black experience, and as such, lack authenticity. I can understand why their success (Iggy Azelia, Lil Debbie) sticks in the craw of other black artists. However, the idea that only one race is "allowed" to sing a certain style of music is patantly dumb. It's like me telling a black person they shouldn't be allowed to participate in Equestrian choreography because they don't share in its rich history.
 
Sooner or later they'll get what they want and young white people will stop purchasing this extraordinarily important "music", "art", and "fashion".
 
Sooner or later they'll get what they want and young white people will stop purchasing this extraordinarily important "music", "art", and "fashion".
Don't see that happening. If it's what the majority considers fashionable, it will sell. These are young people you are referring to after all.
 
Don't see that happening. If it's what the majority considers fashionable, it will sell. These are young people you are referring to after all.

Pop culture and fashion are fluid. I'm not saying there will be a complete exodus of white fans from hip-hop music, but people will begin to realize that listening to lyrics and speeches about how much the artist hates you isn't very cool.
 
I have no idea about this rapper named Future. What was ironic about his performance?

The irony was in how the two segments clashed - Williams going on and on with his thing, and then cutting right back from commercial with a street type rapper. It was somewhat humorous to watch Williams set a tone with his words and then see him followed up with something that is the literal opposite.

Really it was just the typical liberal wasteland,

A couple of speeches come to mind - for example one from the BET President that sounded like it came straight from the DNC,

then there was Samuel L Jackson. Mr. "I really hoped the San Bernardino terrorists were white" himself....he chimed during his speech by saying "Don't get tricked like London."

Later on, a performance by a singer wearing a "Don't Trump" jacket.

Just the normal run of the mill liberal hypocrisy is what i meant in my original post
 
Sooner or later they'll get what they want and young white people will stop purchasing this extraordinarily important "music", "art", and "fashion".
I hope so. No adult whites dress in baggy pants in my upper middle class county. This is entertainment for children and teens. Ultimately this contribution isn't important at all.
 
Well, Viacom gave him a platform to speak. Would be nice if he were grateful.

The irony was in how the two segments clashed - Williams going on and on with his thing, and then cutting right back from commercial with a street type rapper. It was somewhat humorous to watch Williams set a tone with his words and then see him followed up with something that is the literal opposite.

Really it was just the typical liberal wasteland,

A couple of speeches come to mind - for example one from the BET President that sounded like it came straight from the DNC,

then there was Samuel L Jackson. Mr. "I really hoped the San Bernardino terrorists were white" himself....he chimed during his speech by saying "Don't get tricked like London."

Later on, a performance by a singer wearing a "Don't Trump" jacket.

Just the normal run of the mill liberal hypocrisy is what i meant in my original post
 
Should white people get upset when black folk start driving fancy cars, living in gated communities and dating white woman? Stop stealing our culture!!!
 
Sooner or later they'll get what they want and young white people will stop purchasing this extraordinarily important "music", "art", and "fashion".

That day can't come soon enough for me.

IMO, the last genuinely black art form(s) that had any creatively interesting or redeeming qualities were the musical "brothers", if you will, of blues and jazz.

It's been a long fucking time.

And this was the best line of Jesse's speech:

"The thing is though… the thing is that just because we’re magic doesn’t mean we’re not real."

Hopefully Kanye will pull sections of the audio from the BET speech and mix it together with some sampled beats from old R&B records and create a glorious, new piece of liberating, black art.
 
I hope so. No adult whites dress in baggy pants in my upper middle class county. This is entertainment for children and teens. Ultimately this contribution isn't important at all.

Most Rap is marketed to teenagers. It becomes rather pathetic when people over 21 still take that kind of childish music seriously. Instead of rapping about bling, hoes, murder and the thug life, rappers should focus their lyrics on getting legitimate jobs, hard work, commitment, being a responsible parent, self-reflection, taking care of the environment and working towards strengthening the community in a positive and peaceful manner.
 
Most Rap is marketed to teenagers. It becomes rather pathetic when people over 21 still take that kind of childish music seriously. Instead of rapping about bling, hoes, murder and the thug life, rappers should focus their lyrics on getting legitimate jobs, hard work, commitment, being a responsible parent, self-reflection, taking care of the environment and working towards strengthening the community in a positive and peaceful manner.
What? Rap should be whatever the rapper makes it to be. You cannot force it to be about something it isn't.
I listen to lots of metal that talks about none of those things, and me and my friends don't act crazy and do those things said in the actual music. Responsibility isn't on the actual music, but the listener.
 
What? Rap should be whatever the rapper makes it to be. You cannot force it to be about something it isn't.
I listen to lots of metal that talks about none of those things, and me and my friends don't act crazy and do those things said in the actual music. Responsibility isn't on the actual music, but the listener.

Sadly, many listeners of rap music are growing up in terrible environments and the terrible lyrics merely reinforce the poor behavior of the people living in those environments. I do not see how glorifying violence and misogyny through immature lyrics is going to help a kid growing up in an environment of violence and misogyny change his mind about those things.

It's one thing for immature white kids growing up in relatively good neighborhoods to be amused by violent rap music, however, it is quite another for a kid living in a tough neighborhood to hear such a brutal message.

To be honest, I am not sure why anyone wants to listen to some idiot barking over obnoxious beats about banging hoes, dealing drugs and killing ni**as. There is nothing worth listening to in most rap music as far as I am concerned.
 
Sadly, many listeners of rap music are growing up in terrible environments and the terrible lyrics merely reinforce the poor behavior of the people living in those environments. I do not see how glorifying violence and misogyny through immature lyrics is going to help a kid growing up in an environment of violence and misogyny change his mind about those things.

It's one thing for immature white kids growing up in relatively good neighborhoods to be amused by violent rap music, however, it is quite another for a kid living in a tough neighborhood to hear such a brutal message.

To be honest, I am not sure why anyone wants to listen to some idiot barking over obnoxious beats about banging hoes, dealing drugs and killing ni**as. There is nothing worth listening to in most rap music as far as I am concerned.
I'm not saying that it is good music or that the message is, but it's just music. The individual's actions are their own, and blaming music is silly to me. Like blaming violence on video games.

I mean I don't think listening to a song about rape, called "fucked with a knife" is any different than listening to a rap song about pimps and hoes and all that jazz, but my friends and I didn't go out raping, because we know it's just music. Individual responsibility for your own actions should be what we all seek.
 
Seriously, can someone tell me who Jesse Williams is. I'm far too lazy to Google.
 
I'm not saying that it is good music or that the message is, but it's just music. The individual's actions are their own, and blaming music is silly to me. Like blaming violence on video games.

I mean I don't think listening to a song about rape, called "fucked with a knife" is any different than listening to a rap song about pimps and hoes and all that jazz, but my friends and I didn't go out raping, because we know it's just music. Individual responsibility for your own actions should be what we all seek.

I do not see how a young impressionable youth living in an unstable home and a bad community with no real future is not influenced by a rapper he sees on the internet with money, surrounded by women and going on about dealing drugs, pimping bitches and killing weak-ass ni**as.
 
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