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Jesse Williams speech

Fuck this guy. I have a hard time taking somebody like this seriously. He wants to bitch about white privilege while he has a white mother, raised in a Nuclear family, grew up going to private school, and graduated from a college that costs $41,000 dollars a semester to attend.

Oh and guess what he got a double major in... African American Studies and Film and Media Arts.
Well if this crazy gender-swapping world has taught me anything, it's that it doesn't matter what you really are, just what you imagine yourself to be. He imagines himself as a victim, so regardless of what the truth is, he is just another victim.
 
Jesse Williams is telling his audience to fix them themselves.
No, he's telling them to fix white people.
As for the system being design in the present to oppress a specific group, you have to know better than to come with that superficial shit. From public education funding to the NHS to gerrymandering to the War on Drugs to the Southern Strategy which informed GOP politics for decades...all systems designed, in whole or in part, to oppress black America and are still on the books in the present.

You realize that the racial reasoning behind many of those laws didn't even become public knowledge until relatively recently, right? We didn't invalidate those laws. And some of the systems have become the bedrock of our current system.
Gerrymandering in its present form is a race-based issue? Pretty sure it's about shoring up seats down party lines. After that we're discussing correlation.

But that's the Democratic playbook on race...correlation is ALWAYS causation when it comes to "racism". This is how they became so intellectually and morally lazy on race matters.

Of course you have to care about it...and then talk about it. Which includes both internal and external factors. Both of which are discussed regularly within the community...even if you don't pay attention to said discussions until they show up wherever it is you go to get current events while ignoring black websites, blogs, etc.

You want to comment on what the black community cares about but I'd bet good money you spend almost zero time actually looking into black sources for community information. Which is pretty close to a point that Jesse Williams made in his speech - I'm sure the relevance was lost on you though.
I thought it was pointless for me to read any of those sources because I'm white and I could never understand them. You CRTers need to make up your prejudicial minds.
And the entire speech is directed to black people. Who do you think he's talking to?

Where is the messaging that I'm referring to but you seem oblivious to?
That's what I'm still wondering. I find military terms like "mobilize" interesting...the three quotes following that he's just yapping about how black people have been wronged ("Now, the thing is...") merely as a prelude to the apparent thesis of his speech that blacks aren't free.

Would you care to elaborate on that? How blacks aren't free?
Please try. That you are tone deaf to the message he was communicating doesn't mean it wasn't communicated to those who understand. The message was for his audience. I can go over it line for line if you really want the insight though.

That you aren't part of that audience but are fixated on the one reference to "whiteness" within it is a pretty clear demonstration of a victimhood mentality.
I'm tone deaf to racists and racism. We're agreed.
 
What's with this cultural appropriation BS? I'm a musician and part of music has always been people gaining influence from other people.

If you really want to trace it all the back modern music is appropriated from white people, because whites are the ones that invented all of the instruments and technology that lead to the creation of today's music.

It's as foolish as saying Louie Armstrong was appropriating whites, because the trumpet was originally forged and played by a white man.
 
It was a graduation speech, and again, he didn't have a contextual basis for his objection. He wasn't objecting to the substance of her point or what she was saying about slavery; he was objecting to the fact that she used a reference to slavery to make it.
Concession accepted.
 
I get a lot of our conversations and I do respect your opinion a great deal...

The opening part of his speech I had no problem with...towards the middle I was wondering what all the outrage was about..

It is this part that has angered so many here:

"centuries, yo. And we’re done watching, and waiting while this invention called whiteness uses and abuses us. Burying black people out of sight and out of mind, while extracting our culture, our dollars, our entertainment like oil — black gold. Ghettoizing and demeaning our creations then stealing them. Gentrifying our genius and then trying us on like costumes before discarding our bodies like rinds of strange fruit. The thing is, though, the thing is, that just because we’re magic doesn’t mean we’re not real. Thank you.”

How does this even make sense? Black culture and entertainment or "costumes" as he calls it is marketed to white folk...

And what does he mean by" discarding our bodies"

I get that's the part that would anger the most people and within the context of black artistry it makes perfect sense to that audience.

I'm going to get far more philosophical on this subject than I normally do but I don't expect any agreement. Not because you or anyone is close-minded but because I think differences on this boil down to fundamental differences in how people see this world. Opinions they formed long before they could rationalize the subject and that flows in both directions.

There is a general opinion within the black community (and if you're black, understand I'm not trying to speak for you) that as Paul Mooney put it:
a79d3c72e50682ea183ab5b36418813e.jpg


That America is perfectly comfortable taking elements of black America, copying it, incorporating it while simultaneously denigrating the creators of said elements. Now, there's 2 sides to that and Williams addressed part of it in the previous part of his speech re: branding of their bodies, chasing money, etc. A clear message to those black performers that they've undermined their community's standing via a desire to make commodities of themselves.

But the part here about black gold, burying black bodies out sight, etc. is a reference to how black art and black ideas can become celebrated while the people themselves don't share in acclaim. Hip hop is probably a decent example. Non-black people can put on the clothes, copy the slang, duplicate the music and celebrate all of the elements as something wonderful (realizing of course that plenty of people aren't hip hop fans) while simultaneously dismissing the culture that created hip hop as something uniquely and negatively black - emblematic of a debased pro-crime, anti-family, irresponsible culture.

So they extract the culture for social purposes while burying/dismissing/discarding the larger black social contexts that created that culture. To the black community, for which hip hop encompasses far more than the just the mainstream element that appeals to the most fervent consumer base (primarily not a black consumer base), it's a bit of a slap in the face. The mainstream won't adopt the messaging of more socially conscious rappers or singers to celebrate. It's a lesson that black artists need to be reminded of. That their messaging matters because the message you're selling (branding onto your body) isn't actually being used to raise the community just because you got paid to sell it.
 
No, he's telling them to fix white people.

No he's not but your sense of victimhood doesn't leave open any other possibilities to you, does it?

Gerrymandering in its present form is a race-based issue? Pretty sure it's about shoring up seats down party lines. After that we're discussing correlation.

But that's the Democratic playbook on race...correlation is ALWAYS causation when it comes to "racism". This is how they became so intellectually and morally lazy on race matters.

Gerrymandering in it's present form is a race based issue. I'm pretty sure the Supreme Court just heard a case on this in 1993 and they're taking another one this year (yes the case is about race and gerrymandering).

I like how you're claiming intellectual and moral laziness when it's obvious you don't know what you're talking about and were too lazy to even look into it.


I thought it was pointless for me to read any of those sources because I'm white and I could never understand them. You CRTers need to make up your prejudicial minds.

More of the same from you. First racist, now CRT. You seem to be reading from the playbook you claim to despise.


That's what I'm still wondering. I find military terms like "mobilize" interesting...the three quotes following that he's just yapping about how black people have been wronged ("Now, the thing is...") merely as a prelude to the apparent thesis of his speech that blacks aren't free.


Mobiilze is exclusively a military term now? I suppose if you're looking to feel attacked you're going to read a word that means to move and has been associated with Civil Rights Movements for decades as a military term. Victimhood.


Would you care to elaborate on that? How blacks aren't free?

And he didn't say blacks weren't free but you're too caught up in your personal narrative to care about the point. But since you asked....

He said that the freedom is conditional. His point, which might be too obtuse for you I suspect, is that black America is always told how "free" and "equal" it is but when expressions of that freedom take on an undesired form then the criticisms go back to the same type of race based critiques that existed pre-freedom.


I'm tone deaf to racists and racism. We're agreed.

Yet you're throwing the terms around without backing up your assertion. Got it. You don't like his speech so he's a racist.

You disagree with me so I'm a racist too.

Isn't this exactly what people are talking about when they referencing thin-skinned people who need to feel like the victim? Waah, you said something I don't want to hear...racist. Hypocrisy much? ;)
 
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I linked the most obvious exchange. To get deeper context, it's best to read the whole exchange (it was quite difficult to get him to articulate his position, and it came in bits and pieces).

Concession accepted.

You're an odd fellow, Mick. Not as objectionable as most people who hold your views, though, so there's that.
 
I get that's the part that would anger the most people and within the context of black artistry it makes perfect sense to that audience.

I'm going to get far more philosophical on this subject than I normally do but I don't expect any agreement. Not because you or anyone is close-minded but because I think differences on this boil down to fundamental differences in how people see this world. Opinions they formed long before they could rationalize the subject and that flows in both directions.

There is a general opinion within the black community (and if you're black, understand I'm not trying to speak for you) that as Paul Mooney put it:
a79d3c72e50682ea183ab5b36418813e.jpg


That America is perfectly comfortable taking elements of black America, copying it, incorporating it while simultaneously denigrating the creators of said elements. Now, there's 2 sides to that and Williams addressed part of it in the previous part of his speech re: branding of their bodies, chasing money, etc. A clear message to those black performers that they've undermined their community's standing via a desire to make commodities of themselves.

But the part here about black gold, burying black bodies out sight, etc. is a reference to how black art and black ideas can become celebrated while the people themselves don't share in acclaim. Hip hop is probably a decent example. Non-black people can put on the clothes, copy the slang, duplicate the music and celebrate all of the elements as something wonderful (realizing of course that plenty of people aren't hip hop fans) while simultaneously dismissing the culture that created hip hop as something uniquely and negatively black - emblematic of a debased pro-crime, anti-family, irresponsible culture.

So they extract the culture for social purposes while burying/dismissing/discarding the larger black social contexts that created that culture. To the black community, for which hip hop encompasses far more than the just the mainstream element that appeals to the most fervent consumer base (primarily not a black consumer base), it's a bit of a slap in the face. The mainstream won't adopt the messaging of more socially conscious rappers or singers to celebrate. It's a lesson that black artists need to be reminded of. That their messaging matters because the message you're selling (branding onto your body) isn't actually being used to raise the community just because you got paid to sell it.

Do you think any of these blacks know who invented the Internet that they use every day? Their cell phones, television, cars, medicine, all the sports they love, democracy, among the million other things they use that whites bright to this world?
 
No he's not but your sense of victimhood doesn't leave open any other possibilities to you, does it?

Gerrymandering in it's present form is a race based issue. I'm pretty sure the Supreme Court just heard a case on this in 1993 and they're taking another one this year (yes the case is about race and gerrymandering).
Oh, by all means, let's hear it.
I get that's the part that would anger the most people and within the context of black artistry it makes perfect sense to that audience.

I'm going to get far more philosophical on this subject than I normally do but I don't expect any agreement. Not because you or anyone is close-minded but because I think differences on this boil down to fundamental differences in how people see this world. Opinions they formed long before they could rationalize the subject and that flows in both directions.

There is a general opinion within the black community (and if you're black, understand I'm not trying to speak for you) that as Paul Mooney put it:
a79d3c72e50682ea183ab5b36418813e.jpg


That America is perfectly comfortable taking elements of black America, copying it, incorporating it while simultaneously denigrating the creators of said elements. Now, there's 2 sides to that and Williams addressed part of it in the previous part of his speech re: branding of their bodies, chasing money, etc. A clear message to those black performers that they've undermined their community's standing via a desire to make commodities of themselves.
In art this is simply homage. There is no limit on creative capital related to an idea. Nobody denigrates black creativity. Ken Burns, the most famous white historian alive, has praised Jazz music as the preeminent American cultural institution along with baseball. If you want to talk about rampant IP theft in the 1950's, then you have something you can genuinely complain about. Today? Blacks "appropriate" just as much music from sampling as whites. Nobody whines about Hootie & the Blowfish for making a country album because of "cultural appropriation". Country is country.

Critics of "hip hop culture" couch their denigration of that culture in the violence that is all too often glorified by it or associated with it (ex. the Baltimore rapper and the youth culture in that city that honestly believes in "spraying" people as reflected in their massive predisposition towards this method of conflict resolution).
But the part here about black gold, burying black bodies out sight, etc. is a reference to how black art and black ideas can become celebrated while the people themselves don't share in acclaim. Hip hop is probably a decent example. Non-black people can put on the clothes, copy the slang, duplicate the music and celebrate all of the elements as something wonderful (realizing of course that plenty of people aren't hip hop fans) while simultaneously dismissing the culture that created hip hop as something uniquely and negatively black - emblematic of a debased pro-crime, anti-family, irresponsible culture.

So they extract the culture for social purposes while burying/dismissing/discarding the larger black social contexts that c eated that culture. To the black community, for which hip hop encompasses far more than the just the mainstream element that appeals to the most fervent consumer base (primarily not a black consumer base), it's a bit of a slap in the face. The mainstream won't adopt the messaging of more socially conscious rappers or singers to celebrate. It's a lesson that black artists need to be reminded of. That their messaging matters because the message you're selling (branding onto your body) isn't actually being used to raise the community just because you got paid to sell it.
Overwhelmingly, especially according to "per capita" figures, the all-time or year-by-year "best of" lists for albums and artists in hip-hop are black artists. Do we need to go to Metacritic for this? Pazz & Jop poll? It has nothing to do with black artists being denigrated, and everything to do with some of them losing their shit (ex. Azealia Banks) simply because a white artist who makes similar music is more financially successful or more famous than they themselves are (usually these things being directly related).

You got philosophical. This is philosophical horseshit.
 
You're an odd fellow, Mick. Not as objectionable as most people who hold your views, though, so there's that.
You're a guy who blathers about identities to draw attention away from your concessions.

Nothing odd about you-- just inferior.
 
You're a guy who blathers about identities to draw attention away from your concessions.

Nothing odd about you-- just inferior.

LOL. I know you don't even believe that, but you're really insecure.

If you want to attack effectively, it's best to aim for plausibility.
 
Why is it that you never hear of Japanese people complaining of "cultural appropriation" when white and black Americans are into the anime/otaku culture and use the anime style in television shows like Boondocks and Afro Samurai. Probably because they have better shit to worry about.
 
Why is it that you never hear of Japanese people complaining of "cultural appropriation" when white and black Americans are into the anime/otaku culture and use the anime style in television shows like Boondocks and Afro Samurai. Probably because they have better shit to worry about.

They think it's an honor that people like their culture enough to copy aspects of it. Crazy, right?
 
The best part was that right after Williams' speech, the rapper Future went on stage and gave his performance. The irony of that sequence of events was awesome.

Anyway, most of us don't appropriate or want to ever associate with a damn thing from the youths. In fact, a lot of us are sick to death of the most degenerative aspects of that "culture" being normalized and pushed onto us.

Most of these white kids grow out of your culture, it's just a phase. The youths, however, internalize it. The black women he was trying to diefy are usually nowhere to be found when a Tamir Rice is caught up in a situation like he was. A mother who never told him to not carry a realistic looking gun, and especially not one with the federally mandated orange cap removed. A lot of people internalize it and never grow out of it. I see 50 year old guys on a regular standin gon the corner in the same clothes the youths have on. A white or hispanic cop 20-30 years younger than these old losers are having to hem them up for loitering. It's pathetic. Williams never lived around blacks I guarantee that
 
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The best part was that right after Williams' speech, the rapper Future went on stage and gave his performance. The irony of that sequence of events was awesome.

Anyway, most of us don't appropriate or want to ever associate with a damn thing from the youths. In fact, a lot of us are sick to death of the most degenerative aspects of that "culture" being normalized and pushed onto us.

Most of these white kids grow out of your culture, it's just a phase. The youths, however, internalize it. The black women he was trying to diefy are usually nowhere to be found when a Tamir Rice is caught up in a situation like he was. A mother who never told him to not carry a realistic looking gun, and especially not one with the federally mandated orange cap removed. A lot of people internalize it and never grow out of it. I see 50 year old guys on a regular standin gon the corner in the same clothes the youths have on. A white or hispanic cop 20-30 years younger than these old losers are having to hem them up for loitering. It's pathetic. Williams never lived around blacks I guarantee that

I have no idea about this rapper named Future. What was ironic about his performance?
 
Speaking as a minority, I will let you guys (whites) steal my culture and customs in exchange for me being able to enjoy the infrastructure and amenities you have brought to the table.

Society is made richer when people of all races and cultures collaborate, borrow and build upon our diverse customs and talents.

Somebody cries foul for Justin Timberlake appropriating black culture, but Darius Rucker is a trail blazer for entering country music. Jesse Williams isn't even "black" - I didn't even know he was mixed race until the BET awards. He probably knows about as much about the black "struggle" as the average white kid from the suburbs (which according to his Wikipedia page, he actually was).
 
This "we shall overcome" bullshit is getting old. Look motherfuckers, until you stand up as a community, aint shit gonna change. You get less money for school, so, 2+ 2=4 in any fuckin school. The laws of science are the same no matter if you are using a new book or a book 12 years old. Gravity hasnt changed motherfucker.

Whitey, less money for school, less job opprotuniteis, ect are not causing young girls to spread their legs to any dude who can spit some game. If you got time to fuck, you got time to open your fuckin school books and study. I dont care if your momma is out workin 2 jobs to support the family. study, dont fuck.

Also, THIS BWA (black woman attitude) has got to stop. You are not special because you decided to raise a child on your own--- You can run around screaming you are a strong black woman all you want, that still dont change the fact that your child needs a male role model in the house. Stop letting black dudes get away with not providing for their kids. You can scream how you dont need no man to support you while you are receiving benefits from the rest of men (and women) in society. If you are really strong, then make better decisions in who you fuck. If they guy is a fucking piece of shit who you dont want around your kids, then why did you fuck him in the first place????

Change can happen, but Not until you are ready and willing. You have to be the change and help that change take place.

Have a neighborhood watch. Watch out for your children. Have a rotating study hall at each others house on the block. Have tutors or volunteers at local churches to help improve grades.

There are plenty of things that local communities can do to help get better outcomes. Some may say that these things are already happening or in place, well then more need to be in place. I know they have midnight basketball programs, How bout midnight reading classes.

Also how about you invite the local police out to your youth groups or schools or take a field trip to the police station. Have interactions with police and ask why the do certain things, ask with they have to handcuff a certain way or why they do this or do that. Have them explain the reasoning behind why they do things. Have them explain ideas behind things are done for your safety, their safety and the public safety. Help establish a better repoire and understanding of how fearful a cop can be when he has someone dumb enough to be resisiting and trying to hollar and scream and fight back. Explain to them that a cop thinks a person is capable of doing anything if that person is already resisting/screaming at someone who is allowed to legally carry a gun.. If you are stupid enough to disobey orders, scream and hollar, resist, then a cops thinks you would have no issue fighting or possibly trying to kill them. Explain to them that when an arrest is taking place, have the bystanders shout---- follow directions, do what you are told, just listen, instead of--- he dindu nuffin, why you doin that, etc. You can still film, but have the surrounding people try to help calm the situation down, not rile it up.

Simple steps that can at least get your community started in the right direction. But none of this helps unless the people themselves are ready for a change. But honestly how many of them are? Its a lot easier to sit back and blame than to start a real revolution.

How many people are ready to look themselves in the mirror and say lets do it, lets change for the better. How many people are honestly willing to put forth the effort?
 
This "we shall overcome" bullshit is getting old. Look motherfuckers, until you stand up as a community, aint shit gonna change. You get less money for school, so, 2+ 2=4 in any fuckin school. The laws of science are the same no matter if you are using a new book or a book 12 years old. Gravity hasnt changed motherfucker.

Whitey, less money for school, less job opprotuniteis, ect are not causing young girls to spread their legs to any dude who can spit some game. If you got time to fuck, you got time to open your fuckin school books and study. I dont care if your momma is out workin 2 jobs to support the family. study, dont fuck.

Also, THIS BWA (black woman attitude) has got to stop. You are not special because you decided to raise a child on your own--- You can run around screaming you are a strong black woman all you want, that still dont change the fact that your child needs a male role model in the house. Stop letting black dudes get away with not providing for their kids. You can scream how you dont need no man to support you while you are receiving benefits from the rest of men (and women) in society. If you are really strong, then make better decisions in who you fuck. If they guy is a fucking piece of shit who you dont want around your kids, then why did you fuck him in the first place????

Change can happen, but Not until you are ready and willing. You have to be the change and help that change take place.

Have a neighborhood watch. Watch out for your children. Have a rotating study hall at each others house on the block. Have tutors or volunteers at local churches to help improve grades.

There are plenty of things that local communities can do to help get better outcomes. Some may say that these things are already happening or in place, well then more need to be in place. I know they have midnight basketball programs, How bout midnight reading classes.

Also how about you invite the local police out to your youth groups or schools or take a field trip to the police station. Have interactions with police and ask why the do certain things, ask with they have to handcuff a certain way or why they do this or do that. Have them explain the reasoning behind why they do things. Have them explain ideas behind things are done for your safety, their safety and the public safety. Help establish a better repoire and understanding of how fearful a cop can be when he has someone dumb enough to be resisiting and trying to hollar and scream and fight back. Explain to them that a cop thinks a person is capable of doing anything if that person is already resisting/screaming at someone who is allowed to legally carry a gun.. If you are stupid enough to disobey orders, scream and hollar, resist, then a cops thinks you would have no issue fighting or possibly trying to kill them. Explain to them that when an arrest is taking place, have the bystanders shout---- follow directions, do what you are told, just listen, instead of--- he dindu nuffin, why you doin that, etc. You can still film, but have the surrounding people try to help calm the situation down, not rile it up.

Simple steps that can at least get your community started in the right direction. But none of this helps unless the people themselves are ready for a change. But honestly how many of them are? Its a lot easier to sit back and blame than to start a real revolution.

How many people are ready to look themselves in the mirror and say lets do it, lets change for the better. How many people are honestly willing to put forth the effort?

CcMg8.gif
 
Also, why does cultural appropriation go only one way apparently?

They shouldn't use phones, cars, airplanes, electricity in general, antibiotics, etc. Appropriating Western scientific advancement culture at all turns, yet no one calls em out on it. The hypocrisy is thick here.

Dude, George Washington Carver invented peanut butter, so the "meaningful contributions to modern life" pretty much evens out.:)
 
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