Crime Jan 6 feelings

[idrankyourbeer]

This conversation would have been much easier over a pitcher of beer.

you guys have at it im done for tonight

 

[jeremyemilio]

This conversation would have been much easier over a pitcher of beer.

Ha!

(We've been in similar exchanges before. We generally end up in the same place, which is to say we're mostly on the same page but probably both a little more stubborn about the small nuances than we need to be.)

 

[fingercuffs]

So with these Proud Boys morons being charged with insurgence, the guy with the horns on his head, how long till all of them will get done I wonder?

 

[Strychnine]

Anyone watching the hearings. Ivanka just testified that she believed Atty. Gen. Barr when he said "It was all Bu//$hit."

 

[fingercuffs]

@Seano how are you feeling? Why would you not be upset be this?

 

[jeremyemilio]

I literally am. So much so I'm surprised at your take here.

I shouldn't be trying to engage on this subject from work; I had read the article quickly and knew the tone was bad, and I wasn't trying to present this as a direct comparison. I'm just tired of seeing people treat the January 6th rioters as victims and Ashli Babbitt as a martyr.

Not to try to rehash all of this, but I guess this would be more or what I would consider an apples to apples comparison:

https://www.latimes.com/entertainme...-capitol-arrests-triumph-the-insult-comic-dog

No arson or looting or rioting or assault. It sounds like these guys have been arrested for and charged with the same crimes as a lot of the people arrested on January 6th, which was unlawful entry. So we'll need to watch and see how it plays out.

I have my doubts that any of these people will be held for months without bail, or that prosecutors will be attempting to get months or even years of jail time. But time will tell.

(Of course, the story was broke by Fox News, and it's still young, so I also acknowledge that it could be a pile of BS.)

Edit: Not to take back my primary point, which I still feel is valid (that some of the people charged with the most minor crimes associated with just being present on Jan 6 are being treated in a disproportionately harsh manner), @HOLA 's grain of salt should probably be taken into consideration, here...

I'd imagine if 7 people were arrested more outlets than "just the news" would be covering it.

Not familiar with this site, but Google tells me this dude started it:


John F. Solomon is an American journalist, and was a contributor to Fox News until late 2020.[1][2][3][4] He was formerly an executive and editor-in-chief at The Washington Times.[5]

While he won a number of awards (including the 2008 Robert F. Kennedy Journalism Award) for his investigative journalism, he has in recent years been accused of magnifying small scandals, creating fake controversy[6][7][8] and advancing conspiracy theories.[1][3][9] During the Donald Trump presidency, he advanced Trump-friendly stories including questioning reporting that women who had accused Trump of sexual harassment had also sought payments from partisan political donors [10] and questioning the legitimacy of criminal charges against Trump campaign manager Paul Manafort.[11] He played an important role in advancing conspiracy theories about alleged wrongdoing involving Joe Biden, and his son Hunter Biden in Ukraine; Solomon's stories about the Bidens influenced Trump's fruitless attempt to pressure Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy into publicly launching an investigation into the elder Biden. Trump's attempt led to his first impeachment.[4]

 

[Loiosh]

Not to try to rehash all of this, but I guess this would be more or what I would consider an apples to apples comparison:

https://www.latimes.com/entertainme...-capitol-arrests-triumph-the-insult-comic-dog

No arson or looting or rioting or assault. It sounds like these guys have been arrested for and charged with the same crimes as a lot of the people arrested on January 6th, which was unlawful entry. So we'll need to watch and see how it plays out.

I have my doubts that any of these people will be held for months without bail, or that prosecutors will be attempting to get months or even years of jail time. But time will tell.

(Of course, the story was broke by Fox News, and it's still young, so I also acknowledge that it could be a pile of BS.)

OK, question:

Do you know how many people were held for months for these charges?

I don't, and don't really want to dig for it because I'm not really invested here. I don't think it was any who were just there, but if I'm wrong, let me know.

We don't really know what just happened, but if Colbert's crew hung around to take some shots that's still a pretty serious crime. As with the vast majority of those on January 6th, they'll probably be released immediately, and we'll see how they're treated by the system if they're prosecuted.

This seems like it was a terminally stupid thing to do. The world is watching hearings on how serous those crimes are, and half the country is going to want them put behind the bars.

 

[fingercuffs]

Please tell me none of this happened, lol.

I'll give it the benefit of the doubt considering the source but did that twat Trump actually say these things in the timeline given?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...lt-delivering-fraudulent-votes-January-6.html
Trump calls Pence a 'human conveyor belt' who 'didn't have courage to act' and says Democrats want to execute babies AFTER birth in speech attacking Biden, the January 6 committee and schools that let 'kindergartners pick their own gender'

• Former President Donald Trump slammed his former vice president on Friday
• He said Pence 'had a chance to be great' if he refused to certify election results
• Instead he behaved like a 'human conveyor belt' by delivering the votes
• Trump addressed religious conservatives in Nashville, Tennessee
• 'It was a simple protest,' he said of January 6. 'It got out of hand'

 

[jeremyemilio]

OK, question:

Do you know how many people were held for months for these charges?

I don't, and don't really want to dig for it because I'm not really invested here. I don't think it was any who were just there, but if I'm wrong, let me know.

We don't really know what just happened, but if Colbert's crew hung around to take some shots that's still a pretty serious crime. As with the vast majority of those on January 6th, they'll probably be released immediately, and we'll see how they're treated by the system if they're prosecuted.

This seems like it was a terminally stupid thing to do. The world is watching hearings on how serous those crimes are, and half the country is going to want them put behind the bars.

Yeah. Don't get me wrong, here. I know that this whole thing with Colbert's crew, while stupid (especially in the context), isn't a serious event and isn't comparable, as an event, to Jan 6. But stupid is as stupid does, and as serious as the overall event was on Jan 6, many of the people there were just being a comparable stupid. I also know that many of people who were there on Jan 6 walked away without charge.

But all that said, the very article you posted earlier outlined people charged for just being there and sentenced to house arrest or jail time:

"An Indiana woman who admitted illegally entering the Capitol but didn’t participate in any violence or destruction avoided jail time, and two other misdemeanor defendants got one and two months of home confinement. Two other people who were locked up pretrial were released after pleading guilty to misdemeanors and serving the maximum six-month jail sentence."

https://apnews.com/article/records-rebut-claims-jan-6-rioters-55adf4d46aff57b91af2fdd3345dace8

It's overkill, IMO. And now, as you say, there's a danger of more stupid people being caught up in the logical end game of that sort of overkill... and with a probably shift in the congressional balance of power in the works.

Edit: Here's a complete list being maintained and updated by Politico...

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/01/04/jan-6-insurrection-sentencing-tracker-526091#full-table

 

[Loiosh]

Yeah. Don't get me wrong, here. I know that this whole thing with Colbert's crew, while stupid (especially in the context), isn't a serious event and isn't comparable, as an event, to Jan 6. But stupid is as stupid does, and as serious as the overall event was on Jan 6, many of the people there were just being a comparable stupid. I also know that many of people who were there on Jan 6 walked away without charge.

But all that said, the very article you posted earlier outlined people charged for just being there and sentenced to house arrest or jail time:

"An Indiana woman who admitted illegally entering the Capitol but didn’t participate in any violence or destruction avoided jail time, and two other misdemeanor defendants got one and two months of home confinement. Two other people who were locked up pretrial were released after pleading guilty to misdemeanors and serving the maximum six-month jail sentence."

https://apnews.com/article/records-rebut-claims-jan-6-rioters-55adf4d46aff57b91af2fdd3345dace8

It's overkill, IMO. And now, as you say, there's a danger of more stupid people being caught up in the logical end game of that sort of overkill... and with a probably shift in the congressional balance of power in the works.

No jail time. Two months home confinement during a pandemic. Six months (don't know what misdemeanors they pled to). That doesn't really sound like overkill, absent more information.

Have you watched Day of Rage? It showed what they saw before entering the Capitol. What they were a part of.

 

[jeremyemilio]

No jail time. Two months home confinement during a pandemic. Six months (don't know what misdemeanors they pled to). That doesn't really sound like overkill, absent more information.

Have you watched Day of Rage? It showed what they saw before entering the Capitol. What they were a part of.

Yeah. I edited the post with a better source:

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/01/04/jan-6-insurrection-sentencing-tracker-526091#full-table

A fair bit of jail time being handed out for "Parading, Demonstrating, or Picketing in a Capitol Building," for "Disorderly Conduct in a Restricted Building," and for simply "Entering a Restricted Building."

I understand that people should not have gone in there. It's just that I teach high school, which means that I work with the general population and not just the more "presentable" folks out there who can hold down a job and function in civil setting. I think you'd be surprised just how many people there are that don't have the sort of foresight needed to resist the thought of "Hey! That looks nutso! Let's go watch!"

I mean, the whole reason I brought the whole thing up again is because 7 people with presumedly more sophisticated than average understandings of civil society and politics were stupid enough to run around the capitol building like giddy preteen boys on a panty raid. What hope is there for people who left their homes and travel hundreds of miles to stand in a crowd fooled by the thinnest claims of a fraudulent election?

You can't cure stupid, and so you probably shouldn't punish it too harshly either.

Conspiracy and violence? Fill your boots. Punish that. Stupid? Seems like piling on. Life is difficult enough if you're stupid.

 

[jeremyemilio]

Delete. (Double Post.)

 

[Loiosh]

Yeah. I edited the post with a better source:

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/01/04/jan-6-insurrection-sentencing-tracker-526091#full-table

A fair bit of jail time being handed out for "Parading, Demonstrating, or Picketing in a Capitol Building," for "Disorderly Conduct in a Restricted Building," and for simply "Entering a Restricted Building."

I understand that people should not have gone in there. It's just that I teach high school, which means that I work with the general population and not just the more "presentable" folks out there who can hold down a job and function in civil setting. I think you'd be surprised just how many people there are that don't have the sort of foresight needed to resist the thought of "Hey! That looks nutso! Let's go watch!"

I mean, the whole reason I brought the whole thing up again is because 7 people with presumedly more sophisticated than average understandings of civil society and politics were stupid enough to run around the capitol building like giddy preteen boys on a panty raid. What hope is there for people who left their homes and travel hundreds of miles to stand in a crowd fooled by the thinnest claims of a fraudulent election?

You can't cure stupid, and so you probably shouldn't punish it too harshly either.

Conspiracy and violence? Fill your boots. Punish that. Stupid? Seems like piling on. Life is difficult enough if you're stupid.

I'm not really going to speak to the minor crimes any more, if you say they were unreasonably punished, I won't argue. I think anyone who was a part of the hundreds of people assaulting police and breaking through barricades needs to spend some time behind bars, no matter how stupid they are. The ones who followed them but weren't violent maybe just some stiff fines, except for that entitled blond who said she wasn't going to prison because she was white. She should do time just for the comment alone.